#1
i just went to my local store and was talking to the owner about amps.
he told me that valve amps only sound good when they are cranked up really loud, and are no good for playing small venues, or for practicing.

is this true?

cos if it is, im gonna save my money and get a randall solid state with the valve dynamic thing. (RH150G3)
then i can use it for practicing, band practice, and small gigs.
is this a good idea?

it is more in my price range, which is another bonus ($1500 AUD for head and cab)
i was looking at spending 3000 on a marshall DSL100 head and cab.

this randall is looking more and more attractive to me atm
also would this amp sound good for metal, and thrash

thanks
MD5K
IBANEZ
#2
That isn't true.

My Traynor ycv40 is a tube amp and it sounds fine at lower volumes. I havent tried cranking it yet, but from how it is, im sure it will be fantastic.

Get the tube.

Dont get the solid state.
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#3
partially true, valve/tube amps do sound absolutely amazing when cranked but it all depends on the wattage. for instance a 22w will handle amazingly and small venues where as a 50watt may not. but it depends on what you want to sound like. for instance blues players may play an 80watt amp at half volume and that is the tone they are looking for. i reccomend getting a tube amp and if neccessary an attenuator. a thd hotplate or marshall powerbrake
Gibson 58 VOS, Gibson Rich Robinson ES-335, Fender Strat, Fender RoadWorn 50's Tele, Gibson LP Jr Special

Marshall JTM45, Fender BJR NOS
#4
laney vh series are like marshalls on crack. way more tone shaping options.
My live set-up:
72 Tele Custom
TC Electronics Polytune
MXR Dynacomp
deviever Shoe Gazer
Way Huge Red Llama Clone
Effector13 Soda Meiser
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DOD Buzzbox
Dwarfcraft Robot Devil
EA Tremolo
Lovepedal Pickle Vibe
Traynor YBA-2B
#5
so really solid state amps are just a waste of money?

im trying to save as much money as i can while upgrading amps, but it seems like valve is the way to go.

i want to play metal, so i need it to be really loud to get over the drums and everything.

is this randall no good?
it has a valve in it.
MD5K
IBANEZ
#6
Quote by TORSION
so really solid state amps are just a waste of money?

im trying to save as much money as i can while upgrading amps, but it seems like valve is the way to go.

i want to play metal, so i need it to be really loud to get over the drums and everything.

is this randall no good?
it has a valve in it.


all tube is the way to go. hybrid amps just suck, especially if you're using overdrive pedals. check out the laney website for sound clips. i am not affiliated with laney btw, i just prefer them over marshall.
My live set-up:
72 Tele Custom
TC Electronics Polytune
MXR Dynacomp
deviever Shoe Gazer
Way Huge Red Llama Clone
Effector13 Soda Meiser
Vintage Proco Rat
DOD Buzzbox
Dwarfcraft Robot Devil
EA Tremolo
Lovepedal Pickle Vibe
Traynor YBA-2B
#7
so really solid state amps are just a waste of money?

If you have to travel a lot with a bus, don't care about volume and tone, then no; SS is light, which is the only thing it is good for, and as soon as you go into 50w SS or above it just defeat that purpose. My 30w SS with 10" speaker is lighter than a Blues Junior that I rented and a Pro Junior that I tried, but its tone suck. Good for band practice, though.

Quote by TORSION

i want to play metal, so i need it to be really loud to get over the drums and everything.

is this randall no good?
it has a valve in it.


Randall is a Tube preamp if I am not mistaken, which does not make much difference if at all. However, there are example of blind test that a good hybrid with power tube makes no difference, but unfortunately, I only know of one, the Super Champ XD and the Vibrochamp XD, that use power tube section – and I have not even heard their playign yet. However, if what the you tube had present is true, it could suit your needs, as it allows tube tone while providing multiple good modelling that could be good for metal too.

Due to my hard of hearing, I am not the best judge of tone, so you listen to it for yourself: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aGMTrL0pGg. I just hope the feel is just as good, though.
#8
i think it has a tube poweramp actually.
not 100% sure tho.

my computer is too slow for all these youtube sites, and clips. so i guess i will have to go and try them out lol
MD5K
IBANEZ
#9
Solid state amplifiers DO have their place, but tube amps are generally considered to be better, more dynamic. Solid state amps sound like total ass when turned up to the max, which is why you find them in ridiculous wattages. Tube amps are designed to be pushed like that, because it is them being pushed and overworked which creates Overdrive.

Check out the sticky about tubes up the top of the forum, and as for which amp you should buy, shop around.
If you can afford it, try a randall rc50tc, or whatever they've called. Full tube, 50 watts. And the perfect description of 50 watts tube is from a sig here.
50 Watts tube is enough for deafening everyone on stage aswell as the first 3 rows of your audience, and blowing over small dwarves.

There's also a load of other brands, IE - peavey, mesa, engl, ashdown, etc etc.

Give them styles of music you play and a price range, and then you'll get a tonne of suggestions. So go try them out, find out which ones you like, and then ask again for opinions between those you like. And so on and so forth.
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#10
Solid state amps make better practice amps. Unless you want to warm up your tubes to play during a commercial break.
#11
Quote by paranormal5150
Solid state amps make better practice amps. Unless you want to warm up your tubes to play during a commercial break.


1) Plug-in amp.
2) Put amp on stand-by
3) Tune guitar
4) Play?

I fell into that misconception about warming up too at first. You only need to let it warm-up for a minute or so unless you've had it out in the freezing cold or something.
And maybe we can fly away from here, surf on the debris of a broken scene...
#12
Well I know... I own a tube amp too. It just seems to fit my needs in my band and recording better than practicing in the bedroom. I use a solid state amp for practice by myself and wouldnt have it any other way. I tried out some smaller tube amps before I bought my practice amp and they just didn't have the tone the solid state ones do. I think solid state just gives you a better tone at low volumes. My 6505 sounds like crap at low volumes. My solid state kills it at bedroom levels. Of course louders the 6505 murders the solid state.
#13
This is FALSE.
People get confused.
Valve amps sound at their BEST when they're cranked up and the valves are running nice and hot.
This does NOT mean by ANY means that they sound BAD at low volumes. They just sound BETTER at high volumes.
Don't get confused.
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#14
Well I know my amp sounds like crap at low volumes. If I crank it down to bedroom levels it just has no tone at all. So I have to get it somewhat loud which is bad in my apartment at 2 in the morning. My solid state.. don't have that problem. but Im sure some lower wattage tube amps will sound good at lower volumes. mine is a 120 watt.
#16
My 50W 30 year old park valve amp sounds lovely at low volumes according to my mate who, unlike me, knows his arse from his elbow when it comes to these things
#17
tube amps sound "better" cranked, but now a days tube amps have a ton of preamp distortion, so they don't need to be cranked to get a decent sound
My Gear
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#18
Quote by JLT73
tube amps sound "better" cranked, but now a days tube amps have a ton of preamp distortion, so they don't need to be cranked to get a decent sound


Yeah but preamp tube breakup does not sound like power tube break up, and personally I prefer the latter. I'm sure others agree and that's why small tube amps sell.


TS-- what sounds best at 0 volume is the sales guy's speech trying to dump some SS practice amps on you because he can't seem to sell them with all the new 5w valve amps coming out.
#19
I have a 6 watt Fender Champ I use for a practice amp, all tube made in 74, but my 45 watt 73 Super Reverb (also all tube) sounds really good at the same low volume, just really clean. The only tube amps I've seen that don't sound good at bedroom volume are the higher wattage ones, like 100 watts and over. That's because to get the tubes to work much at all tthe amp is already too loud for the bedroom.

And yeah, cranked up to 10 both the Champ and Super Reverb sound great.
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
#21
Tube amps sound fine at low volumes, they just sound even better at higher volumes.
Gear
Schecter C-1 Hellraiser
Ibanez EX 470 (1991)

Peavey 6505 combo
Vox Valvetronix AD15VT
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#22
but the thing is i want 100 watts.

is 50 watts valve definately loud enough for gigging?
MD5K
IBANEZ
#23
so am i gonna have to get a valve amp for gigging and a solid state for practicing?
MD5K
IBANEZ
#24
Most amps sound better when you turn them up, just more so for tubes. Even my Spider sounds nicer when you turn it up some.
#25
Quote by Masonpwiley
Most amps sound better when you turn them up, just more so for tubes. Even my Spider sounds nicer when you turn it up some.


i can back that statement up too. just theres a limit... you start going to 3/4`s and above my amp starts to lose it`s bottem end. but around 1/2 HOLY **** it just roars LOL, i can`t wait to see what a tube head will do.

But if you hook up 2 cabs to my head that starts to overload it you can hear it like crackle, but DAMN it`s an awesome feeling standing face to face with 8 12`s palm muting a power E chord... so to the guy who say you don`t NEED 100 watts or a 1/2 stack.... oh well , i don`t NEED a Firebird GTA to go down the highway in... but i WANT too, so yes i WANT a 100 watt Marshall 1/2 stack and when i can afford it a full stack.

and if i need lower volumes i`ll still have a my Line 6.
#26
Quote by TORSION
but the thing is i want 100 watts.

is 50 watts valve definately loud enough for gigging?


A 50W Peavey 5150 combo will kick the living sh!t out of a 100W SS halfstack. I'd suggest a Valveking over the Randall hybrid. The RG50TC from Randall is a 50W all tube amp, and also worth a look.

That said, some metal players prefer SS, and those Randalls get good reviews for those kinds of tones. Just be advised that they won't hold their value as well, and if you decide to play anything other than metal anytime soon, you'll be ill-equipped.
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#27
Quote by TORSION
is 50 watts valve definately loud enough for gigging?


30 watts is more than capable.
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For the best tingle, use Original Source mint. That shit feels amazing on your balls.


Godfather of The Diezel Mafia
#28
5 watts is gigging capable. You may not get a clean sound out of it but you could play a gig with a 5 watt amp. You could play Wembly (sp?) Stadium with a 5 watt amp.

See they came up with these great inventions . What you do is take a "microphone" and plug it into a "mixer" which then has a "preamp" going to a "power amp" going to the "speakers". Then if you need more volume you just turn up the volume of the "speakers". A lot of guitarists forget about these great inventions. Its really quite a shame.
#29
Quote by thebrewfan
"You don't need 100 watts
You don't need a halfstack"

-slats


Yes I do... I couldn't play in my band and be heard as well with a 30 watt amp. Why does pretty much every metal band thats touring have a half stack? I don't like the sound of 2 speakers pushed. To me theres just more clarity with 4x12. Plus with high gain amps like I said theres a reason they are 100 watts plus. Most bands also don't have their amp miced through a PA system at practice. You need something loud enough that doesn't sound so pushed at high volumes. I used to have a 2x12 and got tons of feedback and just a pushed sound. Didn't dig it at all. Tell me an amp that could do what my 6505 can do as clearly as it does it that isn't 100 watts? The combo doesn't sound as good to me. I don't know why people without half stacks are so against half stacks. Some people like the headroom and don't like it to sound like their speakers are being pushed so much. I like a bigger sound.
#30
Quote by paranormal5150
Yes I do... I couldn't play in my band and be heard as well with a 30 watt amp. Why does pretty much every metal band thats touring have a half stack?


The reason metal bands play so "loud" is that most of them scoop the **** out of their mids, used closed-back 412's and push the bass up. All of that means that their sound gets all mixed in the with bass and to cut through they have to crank the volume up.

If you don't scoop your mids (which sounds like ass anyways) and keep the bass on the amp down 30W tubes are more then enough.

I don't know why people without half stacks are so against half stacks.


For me, it's that I'm against them at all. I just think 90% of the people who want one want it for the wrong reasons, because it looks cool, or thats what their favorite band plays or whatever. Most of the time on these forums too people are coming in with $700~ budgets and you're not going to find a really nice head and 412 for that low, so whatever they get is going to be a pos and a $700 tube combo will be much, much nicer.

I used to have a 2x12 and got tons of feedback


Feedback has nothing to do with cabinet size. There plenty of other factors that cause feedback, but it's not using a 212 vs a 412.

Some people like the headroom and don't like it to sound like their speakers are being pushed so much. I like a bigger sound.


I think you misunderstand the meaning of headroom. When people talk about headroom they're talking about how loud you can turn the clean channel before the tubes start to break up, which, again, has nothing to do with cabinet size.
And maybe we can fly away from here, surf on the debris of a broken scene...
Last edited by gald at Feb 15, 2008,
#31
No I dont scoop my mids but I keep them on about 4. Anything above that just sounds to twangy and kinda classic rock/ country sounding. The mids around 3 or 4 just sounds better. 2 12's just doesn't sound as clear to me as 4 12's but I guess we disagree. I still can't understand the hatred for halfstacks here. The only way I can figure it is usually people without half stacks will claim you don't need them and people with them will usually say they like it better. I've had both and owned more 2 12's than I have half stacks and always end up back with the half stack. It just sounds better.
#32
I don't hate halfstacks.

My sig is to draw the attention of n00bs looking for a gigging amp with $600. There's a lot of misconception out there that you need 100W halfstack. A misconception that's been out there for a long, long time. For most genres, you just don't. I'd like to get those folks away from MG and Spider stacks and towards a Peavey Classic 30 or something. It's really for their own good.

Even for metal on a budget, I suggest a used 5150, or a Randall RG50TC over a cheap SS stack.

I get the need/desire for an all tube stack, though. Particularly for metal. If you have the means, by all means go for it!
You Don't Need a halfstack.

You Don't Need 100W.

Quote by jj1565
i love you slats.
#33
Quote by paranormal5150
I still can't understand the hatred for halfstacks here.



Again:
90% of the people who want one want it for the wrong reasons, because it looks cool, or thats what their favorite band plays or whatever. Most of the time on these forums too people are coming in with $700~ budgets and you're not going to find a really nice head and 412 for that low, so whatever they get is going to be a pos and a $700 tube combo will be much, much nicer.
And maybe we can fly away from here, surf on the debris of a broken scene...
#34
Quote by paranormal5150
No I dont scoop my mids but I keep them on about 4. Anything above that just sounds to twangy and kinda classic rock/ country sounding. The mids around 3 or 4 just sounds better. 2 12's just doesn't sound as clear to me as 4 12's but I guess we disagree. I still can't understand the hatred for halfstacks here. The only way I can figure it is usually people without half stacks will claim you don't need them and people with them will usually say they like it better. I've had both and owned more 2 12's than I have half stacks and always end up back with the half stack. It just sounds better.



yeah that comment was more for the people who think that they their 100 MG half stack is "br00tle". I still think that 100 watts tube is waaaay louder than you need to be regardless of the genre. Unless you're playing a huuuuge venue. If you can't hear yourself at practice, have your drummer play softer. If he can't play softer...get a better drummer.