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#1
I can play B Phrygian over the chords Bm, G, and Am, right?

...just making sure that I understand how to use the modes over chords is all
#2
Yeah that's right, all the notes of the chords fit into the mode.
#3
That progression resolves to G. Use G major.
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#4
Ehhhhh...kinda sorta. If you're convinced that the progression resolves to Bm, which it very well may depending on how you play it, then B Phrygian will be fine. My personal opinion is that your progression should be resolved to an Em chord, making the whole thing fit in the E Aeolian mode. However, if you want to consider the root B, that is your choice.

Edit: Archeo, I hear the Am ---> Em resolution better than Am ---> G. Is this progression a cadence (sp?) leading to G, or would Em be acceptable as well.
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Feb 19, 2008,
#5
Quote by linfield44
I can play B Phrygian over the chords Bm, G, and Am, right?

...just making sure that I understand how to use the modes over chords is all


Maybe this might work better

Bm(b9) - Cm - Bm(b9) - Am


All three chords feature the minor second, which is what distinguishes it from a natural minor scale. Your best bet would still be just to vamp the Bm(b9) chord.
#6
Quote by isaac_bandits
Maybe this might work better

Bm(b9) - Cm - Bm(b9) - Am


All three chords feature the minor second, which is what distinguishes it from a natural minor scale. Your best bet would still be just to vamp the Bm(b9) chord.


Cm?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#7
yes, all of the chords have the notes of the B phrygian BC-D-E-F#G-A
Am A-BC-D-E-F#G-
G G-A-BC-D-E-F#

so yes, they are all modes of eachother
Out here you've gotta know where your towel is!
#8
Quote by ValoRhoads
yes, all of the chords have the notes of the B phrygian BC-D-E-F#G-A
Am A-BC-D-E-F#G-
G G-A-BC-D-E-F#

so yes, they are all modes of eachother


But they are not the same thing. G major is not B phrygian.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#9
Quote by Archeo Avis
Cm?
Agreed. C MAJOR could work, but Bm Cm is definately not a B Phrygian progression.


What Valo means is that, when you combine the notes in the chords, you get the B Phrygian scale, assuming you consider the root B.
#10
you're right it's not, it's a mode of it
Out here you've gotta know where your towel is!
#11
Quote by linfield44
I can play B Phrygian over the chords Bm, G, and Am, right?

...just making sure that I understand how to use the modes over chords is all


In short, yes.
Out here you've gotta know where your towel is!
#12
Quote by ValoRhoads
In short, yes.


Don't double post.
And it's not B phrygian if the progression resolves to G.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#13
Pitch axis theory, you can change the mode on each chord provided they all still have the same notes, since he is starting on Bm and playing a phrygian, and moving to an Am, which has all of the same notes as the B phygian but in a different starting point, and moving to the G Maj which has all of the same notes but a different starting point, the pitch axis remains true as no matter which of these bass chords he still only has the same batch of notes to choose from no matter where he goes.
Out here you've gotta know where your towel is!
#14
Quote by Archeo Avis
Don't double post.
And it's not B phrygian if the progression resolves to G.



why does it resolve to G?
#15
Quote by ValoRhoads
Pitch axis theory, you can change the mode on each chord provided they all still have the same notes, since he is starting on Bm and playing a phrygian, and moving to an Am, which has all of the same notes as the B phygian but in a different starting point, and moving to the G Maj which has all of the same notes but a different starting point, the pitch axis remains true as no matter which of these bass chords he still only has the same batch of notes to choose from no matter where he goes.


No. That's not pitch axis, it's modulation to a relative mode, which only works if you're changing the tonal center. If the tonal center is G, you cannot play B phrygian. Pitch axis involves modulation between parallel modes over a static root (e.g. B phrygian - B aeolian - B major)
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#16
Quote by linfield44
why does it resolve to G?

can some one explain how things resolve i have tried to learn but i think i just get confused and now the question came up so i will take this oprotunity to ask.

i looked in bangoodcharlotees sig but maybe just didn't understand. does iut have something to do with the co5 or if an explanation is too long point me in the right direction??
song stuck in my head today


#18
that's one side of it, you gotta open your mind to it, it can go across chords in a structure as well. Basically as long as he's playing these 3 chords, there are still only seven notes in the structure of all the chords, so yes he can play the same scale over top of al of them as he has no extra notes
Out here you've gotta know where your towel is!
#19
Quote by ValoRhoads
that's one side of it, you gotta open your mind to it, it can go across chords in a structure as well. Basically as long as he's playing these 3 chords, there are still only seven notes in the structure of all the chords, so yes he can play the same scale over top of al of them as he has no extra notes


...what?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#20
well the way im playing it, im giving the first Bm four counts, the G two and the Am 2, and it clearly goes back to Bm perfect, at least in my ears. so why wouldn't it work??
#21
Quote by ValoRhoads
Pitch axis theory, you can change the mode on each chord provided they all still have the same notes, since he is starting on Bm and playing a phrygian, and moving to an Am, which has all of the same notes as the B phygian but in a different starting point, and moving to the G Maj which has all of the same notes but a different starting point, the pitch axis remains true as no matter which of these bass chords he still only has the same batch of notes to choose from no matter where he goes.


Pitch axis involves going through parallel modes, like E Dorian to E Mixolydian to E Aeolian.
Quote by dudetheman
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Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#22
it doesn't matter in this case if he's playing in Am, Gmaj or Bm he still only has ABCDEF#G to place into his solo, in the simplest fashion he doesn't even need to change anything as he is always gonna be on key as long as he is hitting one of these notes
Out here you've gotta know where your towel is!
#23
Quote by ValoRhoads
it doesn't matter in this case if he's playing in Am, Gmaj or Bm he still only has ABCDEF#G to place into his solo, in the simplest fashion he doesn't even need to change anything as he is always gonna be on key as long as he is hitting one of these notes


Yes, but the tonal center will determine what mode he's actually playing in.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#24
Quote by Archeo Avis
Yes, but the tonal center will determine what mode he's actually playing in.


right, but you don't need to go that far into it when there are only seven notes to choose from, if you had some discrepancies such as in one mode let's say the F# is a natural in one of the scales, then we would have to worry about that. I'm just trying to tell the guy the simplest answer.
Out here you've gotta know where your towel is!
#25
Quote by Archeo Avis
Yes, but the tonal center will determine what mode he's actually playing in.



what's the tonal center?
#26
Quote by ValoRhoads
right, but you don't need to go that far into it when there are only seven notes to choose from.


Yes, we do. He asked if he could play B phrygian. Whether or not the progression resolves to B is somewhat significant.

Quote by linfield44
what's the tonal center?


The tonic note that all other notes relate to. The note that the progression resolves to. In this progression, it seems to be G.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#27
Quote by Archeo Avis
Yes, we do. He asked if he could play B phrygian. Whether or not the progression resolves to B is somewhat significant.


The tonic note that all other notes relate to. The note that the progression resolves to. In this progression, it seems to be G.



ok, but why is it G, i just don't understand. the way i play it, it clearly, (emphasis on clearly), goes back to Bm.
#28
Quote by ValoRhoads
right, but you don't need to go that far into it when there are only seven notes to choose from, if you had some discrepancies such as in one mode let's say the F# is a natural in one of the scales, then we would have to worry about that. I'm just trying to tell the guy the simplest answer.


You realize that that statement pretty much invalidates modes, right? There's only seven notes in the diatonic modes at any point, so yes, that is a case hwere you need to go "that far into it."

That bit about discrepancies doesn't even make sense. No one ever said anything about outside notes, they don't matter at all in this case.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#29
Quote by linfield44
so why wouldn't it work??
It just doesn't sound right to me. it doesn't sound like it resolves to Bm. Em and G are stronger resolutions in my opinion.

Play this, each chord being one beat:
Bm Bm Bm Bm G G Am Am Bm Bm Bm Bm G G Am Am G

It should sound complete when you hit G at the end.


I'm a actually not liking the Em resolution anymore.
#30
Quote by bangoodcharlote
It just doesn't sound right to me. it doesn't sound like it resolves to Bm. Em and G are stronger resolutions in my opinion.

Play this, each chord being one beat:
Bm Bm Bm Bm G G Am Am Bm Bm Bm Bm G G Am Am G

It should sound complete when you hit G at the end.


I'm a actually not liking the Em resolution anymore.


I punched the progression into PT and tried a little improvisation over it. The more I play it, the stronger that G resolution feels.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#31
Quote by Archeo Avis
I punched the progression into PT and tried a little improvisation over it. The more I play it, the stronger that G resolution feels.



ok, so how do i construct a progression in phrygian??
#32
Using chords that very strongly emphasize the Phrygian "sound," so to speak, which isaac_bandits went over near the beginning of the thread (though Cm would be out of key).
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#33
any cord using these intervals

Phrygian - 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1
song stuck in my head today


#34
Quote by lbc_sublime
any cord using these intervals

Phrygian - 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 1



I understand the intervals, it just seems like I'm limited, which I don't like. The b2 in the mode implies a chord with a b9 which sounds disgusting. I mean seriously, why use that?

Maybe it's just modes in general that are limiting, and maybe now I'm beginning to see that they are limiting, and if this is the case, then I don't see why I should use them.
#35
Quote by linfield44
I understand the intervals, it just seems like I'm limited, which I don't like. The b2 in the mode implies a chord with a b9 which sounds disgusting. I mean seriously, why use that?

Maybe it's just modes in general that are limiting, and maybe now I'm beginning to see that they are limiting, and if this is the case, then I don't see why I should use them.


You don't have to emphasize the b2. You could easily create a minor progression in which the second degree is ambiguous.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#36
Quote by Archeo Avis
You don't have to emphasize the b2. You could easily create a minor progression in which the second degree is ambiguous.


...either way, modes seem over-rated, now that I think about it.
#37
^ i agree but i also think they are juat as helpful as any other scale when they are relative to what you are playing

but deffinetly people think there is more to them than there is
song stuck in my head today


#38
Quote by linfield44
ok, so how do i construct a progression in phrygian??
The easiest way is to use chords that contain the "modal tone." In Phrygian, the modal tone is b2, so in B Phrygian, the modal tone is C. Obviously, you'll have a Bm chord. Then you'll use chords in the key of G major that contain the C note: C, Am, and F#dim. Try to avoid the tritone interval, as it resolves to the parent scale (G major), so don't use F#dim. So, a good Phrygian progression can/will contain the chords Bm, Am, and C.
#39
Quote by bangoodcharlote
The easiest way is to use chords that contain the "modal tone." In Phrygian, the modal tone is b2, so in B Phrygian, the modal tone is C. Obviously, you'll have a Bm chord. Then you'll use chords in the key of G major that contain the C note: C, Am, and F#dim. Try to avoid the tritone interval, as it resolves to the parent scale (G major), so don't use F#dim. So, a good Phrygian progression can/will contain the chords Bm, Am, and C.



well that seems to make sense. so if im playing in B lydian, the modal tone would be the F, so I could have B, F, and D minor then, right?
#40
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Try to avoid the tritone interval, as it resolves to the parent scale (G major), so don't use F#dim.


Does that mean the Bm(b9) is a bad choice of chord to use aswell because of the tritone between the 5th and the b9?
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