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#1
or say stuff like-"mindless noodling,unmelodic and such?"I'm not a shredder myself but am fairly accomplished technically,and wonder why people hate those who are proficient and or very accomplished and have the facility to do those type of things.
#6
a lotta people say bad things about my playing. i can actually play but people call me uninventive because my playings a bit like slash (that kinda just happend i dunno how) but i can play well so they dont like it, dont sit there and watch.
#8
Because they think they're being intelligent saying stuff like "speed aint a skill you've gotta have soul" when they're really being jealous pretentious wankers
#9
Mate its obvious that people like that are jealous of us shredders and know they will never put in the time needed to shred properly so they decide not to appreciate it all and label it as mindless fast stuff with random notes..
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#10
actually, i dont really like pure shredding. It just gets boring and repetitive after awhile. BUT i do like some 'melodic' shredding. Stuff like Petruccis solo work and Satch n stuff.

just my two cents
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#12
Most shredders suck, and there are too many that can play as fast as Satch or whatever, but cant write their own material worth crap. Of course some of them are good. I'm a fan of Petrucci, Paul Gilbert and guys like that, but I feel like certain others have no relevance and yet still carry an arrogant attitude because they can play fast and sweep. Shredders as a whole arn't bad, but there are alot of them out there that give them a bad name.
#13
pure shredding like "mainstream" shredding get's boring very quick. Many people say it misses soul, but that can never be proved, and could be different from person to person.

I once played a Mr. Big song for some...people in my class, and they we're all like "OMG WTF SRSLY AWESOME PLAYING" and they usually listen to techno

Wish I could bring my geetar and amp one day, so I could shred their faces off.
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#14
Quote by Stratwizard
Ignorance? Jealousy? Personal taste?


+1

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#16
As far as I see it...

Shredding represents two extremes, the best in guitar playing and the worst. There are shredders who compose some of the greatest instrumental music for modern electric guitar, who exhibit not only a technical virtuosity, but a musical and expressive virtuosity as well, and then there are those shredders who represent the absolute worst in instrumentation, where there "music" becomes a mere means to exhibit circus tricks and athletics. It does not take much to convince me that there are those in this world who are jealous of the former, and that there are those who despise the latter. Disdain for the "shredder" in both forms is imaginable, and as a reaction, is even to be expected.
#17
I was talking to a drummer in the pub the other week and he was saying how he loves DT, Rush etc and we were getting on fine and talking about jamming sometime--he asked me what guitarists I admire and as I was talking about Gilbert, Buckethead, Holdsworth et al---his guitar buddy came along--wearing a Nirvana top i might add--,pulled an elitist face and said '' I prefer guitarists with emotion''
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#18
Quote by Erc
As far as I see it...

Shredding represents two extremes, the best in guitar playing and the worst. There are shredders who compose some of the greatest instrumental music for modern electric guitar, who exhibit not only a technical virtuosity, but a musical and expressive virtuosity as well, and then there are those shredders who represent the absolute worst in instrumentation, where there "music" becomes a mere means to exhibit circus tricks and athletics. It does not take much to convince me that there are those in this world who are jealous of the former, and that there are those who despise the latter. Disdain for the "shredder" in both forms is imaginable, and as a reaction, is even to be expected.


that... was... beautiful! i could not have said it any better myself.
#19
Because shredding is boring and just carries on forever. Also shredders seem to think that if a guitarist can't shred they're not good. That's not true in the slightest.
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#20
*in a britsh voice* because they cant comprehend it
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#21
Quote by StreetLight3989
Because shredding is boring and just carries on forever. Also shredders seem to think that if a guitarist can't shred they're not good. That's not true in the slightest.

yes we all think that if you can't shred you're ****.

The only time I ever say that someone isn't good if they can't shred is when I'm talking about technique. And I think you'll find that it's the same for most 'shredders'. In this forum I've seen people be completely open minded about a variety of acts from pop, to rap to electronic music to classical to jazz. and then I've seen the same people be complete elitists, when it comes to technique.

Did you ever think that shred is boring to you because it goes over your head?

Quote by wil
I was talking to a drummer in the pub the other week and he was saying how he loves DT, Rush etc and we were getting on fine and talking about jamming sometime--he asked me what guitarists I admire and as I was talking about Gilbert, Buckethead, Holdsworth et al---his guitar buddy came along--wearing a Nirvana top i might add--,pulled an elitist face and said '' I prefer guitarists with emotion''


I think I'm gonna write a good 15 minute speech as to why, whenever anyone says that X guitarist plays with no emotion/soul/any other word that they care to use, they are wrong.

I did one once just making it up as I went along and by the end of it the only person who disagreed with me was the one who had originally said the offending phrase. And when I asked him how or why X guitarist had no emotion, the only thing he could say was "he just doesn't". The IRL equivalent of "NO U!"
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#22
Quote by Lemoninfluence
yes we all think that if you can't shred you're ****.

The only time I ever say that someone isn't good if they can't shred is when I'm talking about technique. And I think you'll find that it's the same for most 'shredders'. In this forum I've seen people be completely open minded about a variety of acts from pop, to rap to electronic music to classical to jazz. and then I've seen the same people be complete elitists, when it comes to technique.

Did you ever think that shred is boring to you because it goes over your head?


I think I'm gonna write a good 15 minute speech as to why, whenever anyone says that X guitarist plays with no emotion/soul/any other word that they care to use, they are wrong.

I did one once just making it up as I went along and by the end of it the only person who disagreed with me was the one who had originally said the offending phrase. And when I asked him how or why X guitarist had no emotion, the only thing he could say was "he just doesn't". The IRL equivalent of "NO U!"

It doesn't go over my head, I'm just not into guitar solos that much. I'd much rather listen to stuff that evokes emotion, and shred doesn't do that for me. I'm sorry I generalized shredders, and it is true I probably don't have half as good technique as any of you. I've just seen people in my school say that. I really didn't mean to get anyone mad.
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#23
People hate shredders because it is hard to appreciate something so far beyong their scope of reason. Most music your hear is slow, easy pop stuff with catchy melodies, etc. but Shred is furious fast insanity; people cant really relate. They hate as a fall back. I don't 'like' shred but I do like Shredding. Alot of times in shred they shred 32nd notes or 16th note sextupets for very long periods of time. This could get boring, as they never really hear any good shredders, who phrase and have space.
#24
I really couldnt listen to nothing but shred all day long---Im sure im not the only person who can appreciate OTHER kinds of music. I guess the guy I referred to in my previous post thinks I must lock myself away and listen to Impellitteri all day and I dont even consider a song as 'music' unless it contains a passage of immaculately picked 32nd notes and this just isnt the case.

Sure, I like ''shred'' (God I hate that word) music, but Im just as likely to listen to Avril Lavigne or A Perfect Circle as I am Erotic Cakes or Passion and Warfare--Its all music at the end of the day and theres something to be learned from all of it. Laugh at me for naming those artists if you like, but I couldnt give a rat's ass, at least Im open minded.
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#25
I'll go one further by rattling off Sugababes, Michael Jackson, Britney or The Smiths – I can just easily and enjoyably listen to them alongside my shreddy lads. But in the end, I will always get a bigger 'rush' and have a larger grin on my face by listening to shred, than any other genre. Something about it just keeps me coming back for more.

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#27
so if i hit a nice major bend on every solo i do. I;m emotional? I can state ridiculous stuff too. Guitar is not emotional, Talking too a girl is emotional.

Shred can be emotional.

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#28
Shredding and technical ability is perfectly awesome.
Shredding can sound good, but many shredders tend to make it into what may seem like...random notes played at ultimate speed. The music doesn't get anywhere.
Shredding for me is best when played at highest a half minute for a 6 minute long song.
Wich is plenty.

And emotion - no one can agree in that. Ever. You just can't, and many people have already said why perfectly, so I won't
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#29
i used to enjoy listening to things that were closer to my skill level as a guitarist. at first i would listen to Guns N' Roses, AC DC, the blues driven hard rock stuff mainly because it wasn't crazy fast, nothing extremely complicated and i hoped that one day i'd be able to play it. i didn't like listening to shred back then because it really didn't interest me since i couldn't play it on guitar yet, i had no clue what the "shredders" were doing, and i just wasn't ready for that level of guitar playing.

after those bands i started moving to heavier, metal type music with faster guitar pieces etc. Children Of Bodom really set it off for me to play faster and increase my picking speed. Alexi Laiho was a god on guitar in my eyes and shred was still too fast and complicated for me so i stayed away from it until i started to grow bored of my other metal music.

naturally my guitar playing got better and better so i went out starting to look for new inspiration, which is where i found Marty Friedman, Paul Gilbert, Jason Becker etc. and started listening to them for new ideas on the guitar technically and musically. now i was finally able to listen to shred without being bored and take something from the music rather than just "holy **** that's fast"

i guess for some guitarists it all comes with time, like it did with me

*looks up at post*.....wow, i am really bored >_>
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#30
ignorant people that think shredding is soulless are usually thinking of wank guitar like dragonforce.

No wonder they think shred is soulless.

but seriously, emotion is a personal thing, some people just have different perspectives.
#31
Because they think shred is mindless. Show them altitudes and they might change their mind.
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#32
Because shredders, in my opinion, looks at music in a completely irrelevant way. Most shredders seem far too obsessed with how technically good they are at guitar and forget what's most import about music; evoking emotion. Yngwie Malmsteen might be the best guitarist in the world technically, but he's also the worst artist ever, in the sense that all he really does is shredding through an entire album. Shredding is for people who were lousy at football when they were kids, feel bitter about it, and want revenge.

Than again, this is a huge generalization.
#33
Quote by European Son
Because shredders, in my opinion, looks at music in a completely irrelevant way. Most shredders seem far too obsessed with how technically good they are at guitar and forget what's most import about music; evoking emotion. Yngwie Malmsteen might be the best guitarist in the world technically, but he's also the worst artist ever, in the sense that all he really does is shredding through an entire album. Shredding is for people who were lousy at football when they were kids, feel bitter about it, and want revenge.

Than again, this is a huge generalization.


Not only is it a huge generalization but you're wrong; most of the so-called "shredders" care a lot more about the songs than showing off their chops, Malmsteen doesn't actually do nothing but wank, it just happens that his instrumental pieces and videos where he does little but shred are the bits that get all the attention but listening to things like 'Black Star' and his work with vocalists I can hear what a good composer he actually is, even if it is really an acquired taste. Even MAB, in his own mind at least, is using his technique in a very musical way; he always claims in video lessons and such that technique should serve the music, it just happens that he likes to play fast.

IMHO anyone who cares more about the technique than the music is not a musician but a sportsman but thankfully those are fewer and further between than most people seem to think.
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#34
Quote by European Son
Because shredders, in my opinion, looks at music in a completely irrelevant way. Most shredders seem far too obsessed with how technically good they are at guitar and forget what's most import about music; evoking emotion. Yngwie Malmsteen might be the best guitarist in the world technically, but he's also the worst artist ever, in the sense that all he really does is shredding through an entire album. Shredding is for people who were lousy at football when they were kids, feel bitter about it, and want revenge.

Than again, this is a huge generalization.


since when is evoking emotion the most important thing in music? who are you to say what is important or not? You don't have to think about oh this part needs to make the listener feel sad, this part needs to make someone cry etc. Having that as the most important thing about music implies that the more people it evokes emotion in, the better it is. And that's just a shallow way to look at an extremely diverse and meaningful art form.

And who are these shredders that only obsess over how technically good they are? Yngwie? he plays neoclassical music because that's what he likes. just because he doesn't pander to your tastes doesn't mean his music doesn't evoke emotion.

Paul Gilbert? Have you listened to the guy? he covers the spice girls, abba and frank sinatra. He writes pop rock songs with amazing solos as his main solo stuff. He writes stuff like that because that's what he likes.

Rusty Cooley? he plays prog metal. A genre that's known for it's technically complex features.

Any shredder who is anyone doesn't have the aim of being technically amazing when writing their songs. They don't set out to make a song that nobody else will be able to play. Those that do approach their music like that tend to be the ones that are stuck on youtube, undiscovered and mocked and ridiculed by a group of elitist guitarists who say stuff like 'oh but you have no emotion' and adored by noobs who say 'zomg that was amazing'. But even then, arrogance is an emotion, pride is an emotion hell even boredom is an emotion. Oh but I forgot... they dont count

And yes it was a huge generalisation.
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
#35
ERC is completely correct. I also find it stems from inferiority, since some people dont put in the effort to develop their technique, they claim to hate shred, simply to avoid this practice. This way they do not seem to be inferior in technique to a shredder, as they claim it is "emotionless music", and can get away with not being better at guitar!
#36
Quote by FarewellMemory
ERC is completely correct. I also find it stems from inferiority, since some people dont put in the effort to develop their technique, they claim to hate shred, simply to avoid this practice. This way they do not seem to be inferior in technique to a shredder, as they claim it is "emotionless music", and can get away with not being better at guitar!


I find it mainly stems from the fact that most people have different opinions on what is good about music; people who say "It's just 'cause you suck!" tend to be stupid think that their own taste is absolute and that everyone thinks the same way. A lot of people actually just don't find emotion in 'shred' and some people have a very hard time accepting that.
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#37
Quote by Lemoninfluence
since when is evoking emotion the most important thing in music? who are you to say what is important or not? You don't have to think about oh this part needs to make the listener feel sad, this part needs to make someone cry etc. Having that as the most important thing about music implies that the more people it evokes emotion in, the better it is. And that's just a shallow way to look at an extremely diverse and meaningful art form.

You do realize that anger, happiness, carefreeness and comfortableness are all forms of emotion as well? In my defence, I can say that was a shallow way to look at the word "emotion". Because, yes, evoking emotion is the most important thing in music (and art for that matter), regardless of what emotion it is. It's not a competition, is it? It's not about making money either, is it? What would you say is the most important thing in music, then?

And those of you taking offense from my post; I didn't say my post was a matter of fact. I just offered an opinion, and even admitted that it was a huge generalization.
#38
Quote by European Son
You do realize that anger, happiness, carefreeness and comfortableness are all forms of emotion as well? In my defence, I can say that was a shallow way to look at the word "emotion". Because, yes, evoking emotion is the most important thing in music (and art for that matter), regardless of what emotion it is. It's not a competition, is it? It's not about making money either, is it? What would you say is the most important thing in music, then?

And those of you taking offense from my post; I didn't say my post was a matter of fact. I just offered an opinion, and even admitted that it was a huge generalization.

expressing oneself.

my music is about the making, not the listening. So when I'm writing, I'm trying to express myself not to make the piece evoke an emotion.

evoking emotion is a byproduct of expressing oneself the same way speed is a byproduct of accuracy.

Also, I pointed out in my post that sadness isn't the only emotion. I just used that as an example. I'll edit one part to say angry or cheerful if you want.
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Quote by element4433
Yeah. people, like Lemoninfluence, are hypocrites and should have all their opinions invalidated from here on out.
Last edited by Lemoninfluence at Feb 22, 2008,
#40
Quote by Lemoninfluence

Paul Gilbert? Have you listened to the guy? he covers the spice girls, abba and frank sinatra. He writes pop rock songs with amazing solos as his main solo stuff. He writes stuff like that because that's what he likes.

Rusty Cooley? he plays prog metal. A genre that's known for it's technically complex features.


Paul Gilbert's phrasing = sex

Rusty Cooley is pretty awesome to watch play but some of his stuff can sound like a video game at times
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