#1
I've been looking on guitar fetish at GFS pickups and most of their Strat pickup sets have a reverse wound middle pickup for hum canceling. Is there any way to wire the guitar to make it function as a regular wound pickup ? I like Strats for all of the pops and farts, if I wanted humbuckers I'd get something else.
#2
... you're fat!........ lol I'm not technical can't help sorry
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#3
yup, single coils have two wires, a start, and a finish. usually like red is hot, black is grond. just switch those two, ground the hot, use the original ground wire as the hot. problem solved. easy stuff.
#4
^ Horrible plan.
You just had him wire it so the signal is out of phase with the other pickups.

Quote by Fat Brian
I've been looking on guitar fetish at GFS pickups and most of their Strat pickup sets have a reverse wound middle pickup for hum canceling. Is there any way to wire the guitar to make it function as a regular wound pickup ? I like Strats for all of the pops and farts, if I wanted humbuckers I'd get something else.
A RWRP sounds exactly like a standard wound pickup.
No fewer "pops and farts".
The only difference is the hum and buzz are less, instead of more, when two pickups are used together.

If you want more hum and buzz, connect your trem claw to the signal hot, instead of ground.

The bastard will hum like a bee.
Meadows
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#5
so basically the only thing special about a "reverse wound" is that they switch where they put the red and black wires? Can any single coil be reverse wound?
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#7
Quote by LP Addict
yes, a start and a finish. switch em, reverse wound.

There is a little more to it. Has to do with the direction of the wind so it is hum canceling when used with the neck or bridge pickup which is normal wound. The polarity of the magnets is different as well.
#8
not necessarily with the polarities, ive built a few pickups, taken apart a few, and on alot of pickups it seems like the placement of the poles are completely random. and yes, the direction of the wind is what i mean by start and finish. its all about what type of tone you want i guess.
#9
Quote by CJRocker
There is a little more to it. Has to do with the direction of the wind so it is hum canceling when used with the neck or bridge pickup which is normal wound. The polarity of the magnets is different as well.


BINGO!

Pay attention LP Addict. You just might learn something.
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I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#10
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
A RWRP sounds exactly like a standard wound pickup.
No fewer "pops and farts".
The only difference is the hum and buzz are less, instead of more, when two pickups are used together.

If you want more hum and buzz, connect your trem claw to the signal hot, instead of ground.

The bastard will hum like a bee.


Some claim that non-RWRP has better quack...
#11
Some claim that coating the outside edge of a compact disc with a green marker makes it sounds better...
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#12
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
Some claim that coating the outside edge of a compact disc with a green marker makes it sounds better...


Touchê.


(People actually claim that?)
#13
Quote by mr_hankey
Touchê.


(People actually claim that?)


I'm not sure, but he has a good point. No pickup, regardless of how its wound, will sound exactly the same. The term 'better' isn't a good judge of how something sounds - some will like it, others won't.
I say make up your own opinion on tone (not including MG's, Spiders or anything of that ilk )
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#14
I just want a regular Strat sound, I don't really care for the sound of humbuckers that much. I thought it was more complex that just switching the wires, the actual winding of the pickup determines the qualities of the signal. I'll stick to regular winds then.
#15
just about any strat you can buy today will have a RWRP middle pickup. It'll still sound like a strat with the RWRP, and it's much easier to find a full set with regular/rwrp/regular.
#17
Quote by Fat Brian
I just want a regular Strat sound, I don't really care for the sound of humbuckers that much.


It bucks hum, but since the pickups aren't wired in series, it won't sound like a humbucker.
#18
If you're not after the thicker humbucker sound, then don't use positions 2 and 4. If you don't use those positions, then you won't have to worry about the middle pickup being of reverse polarity.
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#20
Quote by Invader Jim
All Strat middle pups are reverse-wound (at least every one I've ever seen and heard of).


You'd think that right? A couple of months I rang up a company that sold pickups (I won't mention names) and they told me that there was no such thing as a RWRP pickup, and that by hum cancelling position in a Strat was caused by having the pickup wired out of phase with the neck or bridge. I wasn't just talking to a salesperson though, I was talking to their guitar tech who apparently had twenty years in the business.
I proceeded to tell him he was an idiot and hang up
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#21
Honestly, how different is it ? I use second position a good bit so this will affect the sound I use a great deal. I know any pickup upgrade will sound better than Chinese parts, I just don't want to lose too much of the Strat character.
#22
It'll sound a bit thicker than using one pickup, but not the same as a humbucker. It also won't hum.
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#23
Quote by Fat Brian
Honestly, how different is it ? I use second position a good bit so this will affect the sound I use a great deal. I know any pickup upgrade will sound better than Chinese parts, I just don't want to lose too much of the Strat character.
Let me put this in a way that might make sense:


A - Changing the direction of the winding will not make the pickup sound different.

B - Changing whether the start or finish end of the winding is used as the signal and the other one grounded, will not make the pickups sound different.

C - Changing the orientation of the magnet from south-up to to north-up, will not make the pickup sound different.


1 - Changing any ONE of these three will change the polarity of the signal generated by the string. i.e. when the string moves closer to the coil, will the signal go positive, or negative.

2 - Changing TWO of the three, will be doing a "double reverse" this means the two pickups will have the same string sensing polarity.

3 - External hum polarity is not affected by the polarity of the magnet.

4 - External hum polarity IS affected by A and B.

5 - The magnet and pole pieces do not "sense" the signal. They magnetize the string.

6 - If you change either 1 OR 2, and ALSO change 3, you have a RWRP pickup.
Reverse Wound, Reverse Polarity.

7 - A RWRP when used with a standard wound pickup will cancel hum when both are selected at the same time.

8 - Two standard pickups, together, will sound IDENTICAL to
a standard and and RWRP used together, except ...
the external hum will cancel, not add.


Things that WILL affect the sound:

Number of turns in the winding.

Gauge and alloy of the wire used in the winding.

Size/shape of the bobbin.

Orderliness of the winding -vs- scatterwinding.

Magnet and/or pole-piece: alloy, size, shape, position relative to the coil.

Baseplate material and shape.

Cover (if used) material and shape.
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I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#24
Alright, these pickups are RWRP so they will work like you described. I guess I'll give them a shot, I just don't care for humbuckers much. Unless they are really nice they sound kind of soulless to me.
#25
Quote by Fat Brian
Alright, these pickups are RWRP so they will work like you described. I guess I'll give them a shot, I just don't care for humbuckers much. Unless they are really nice they sound kind of soulless to me.
You just don't seem to get it.

Humbuckers are not built like single coils pickups.
On a good single coil, the pole-pieces ARE the magnets.
On a humbucker, the magnet is attached to the underside.
The baseplates are radically different.

They are totally different animals.

To top it all off, the two coils of a HB are wired IN SERIES.
When you select position 2 or 4 on a Strat, the pickups are IN PARALLEL
This has a HUGE effect on the tone.

and there is a big difference in spacing between the 2 coils of a HB
and the spacing between 2 pickups on a Strat.


You're afraid to use the green ketchup
because you think it will taste like sour green apples.
It doesn't. Green ketchup tastes like red ketchup.
They look different, but they taste the same.

Don't let the green colour make you think the ketchup will taste like sour apples.
Don't let the word hum-canceling make you think a RWRP will sound like a Humbucking pickup.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#26
I'm glad that they will work for what I want, I just wanted to make sure I understood what I was getting before I put them in. Thank you for making it all clear.
#27
Hey, someone, have you ever heard of anyone experimenting with using armalloy or armco cores, or comparing alnico pole pieces to neodymium, etc?
#28
Quote by Invader Jim
All Strat middle pups are reverse-wound (at least every one I've ever seen and heard of).


Most vintage-spec strats will not have a RWRP middle pup. My 50's classic, for example.
#30
Quote by Invader Jim
If you'll notice, I said "That I've ever seen or heard of". I said that because blanket statements are dangerous to make. Please leave me alone now.


I'm not attacking you, and/or implying that you're an idiot. I'm just trying to point you towards strats without RWRP, in a friendly manner. I guess I failed.
#32
So...What are the disadvantages to a using RWRP middle pickup? I had my set made with a RWRP middle pickup cause I didn't know enough to consider going without. I do notice though, when playing at low amp volume levels, that I lose clarity in positions 2&4. You really notice it when you switch from 1,3,5 to 2&4. It sounds duller with less treble, almost like tone pots were turned down. This effect becomes far less noticable when playing at louder volumes. In fact, I really don't notice it at all at louder volumes. I assume this has to do with the RWRP of the middle pickup and have been thinking about getting a new middle pickup wound without, just to experiment. I have shielded my strat cavities/pickguard,star grounded with a normal 5-way wiring config. and, with these pickups, there are virtually no discernible hum/buzz issues in any position so..i am wondering, is this low volume-dulling effect due to the RWRP of the middle pickup and what could I expect if I were to change it out with non-RWRP?
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#33
I didn't bother to read the whole thread but read enough to know that some things need clarified here.

RWRP stands for reverse wound reverse polarity.

If you reverse the windings but not the polarity you will get hum canceling in 2 and 4 but your pickup will be out of phase with the other pickups and it'll sound thin. If you reverse the polarity of the magnets but you don't reverse the windings then you will get the same thin out of phase sound but without the advantage of hum canceling. If you reverse the windings and the polarity then the pickup will have hum canceling and it'll be in phase so it should sound good but when the hum is cancelled there will be some of the good tone that is cancelled out as well so it won't sound as fat as it would if all the pickups were wound the same direction with the same polarity. When all the pickups are wound the same direction with the same polarity you get the fatter sound in 2 and 4 than you would with an RWRP pickup but you also get hum hum. So the advantage of RWRP is no hum. The "disadvantage" is that that the tone is slightly thinner in 2 and 4.

There are 2 ways to reverse the windings on the pickup. 1 of them changes the way the pickup sounds and the other doesn’t. One way to reverse the windings is to wind it like normal and then reverse the leads so end of the coil which is normally hot would be ground and the start of the coil which is normally ground would be hot. Doing this will make the pickup sound a little different and it’ll make the pickup hum a little more but it does effectively reverse the windings. The other way to reverse the windings is to physically spin the pickup the other direction when you wind it. This method does not change the tone of the pickup at. It will sound exactly as it did if it was wound in the “normal” direction.

The way to revere the polarity depends on the type of pickup you have. If your pickup uses a ceramic bar magnet you will have to rip the magnet off, flip it over, and reglue it. If your pickup uses plastic bobbins and alnico magnets then you can push the magnets out and flip them over 1 at a time. If your pickup has a forbon (fiber) bobbin then you have to remagnatize the magnets with something like a neodymium magnet.

Quote by Losenger
Hey, someone, have you ever heard of anyone experimenting with using armalloy or armco cores, or comparing alnico pole pieces to neodymium, etc?



I've got a bunch of little neodymium disks that I sometimes put on the bottom of alnico poles to help balance the tone of the pickup that have a vintage stagger on a guitar with a modern fretboard radius. Humbucker pickups with alnico magnets have a gauss reading of about .2K at the top of the slugs. A strat pickup with fully charged alnico 5 magnets will have a gauss of 1.2K. That's 6 times the magnetic pull which is why you need to keep strat pickups farther away from the strings than humbuckers. All adding neodymium does is make it so that you need to move the pickups even further away which is exactly why it works so well to help balance out pickups with a vintage stagger.
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Last edited by CorduroyEW at Feb 23, 2008,
#34
Thank you for the explanation and the link, I'm going to start gathering up parts soon and will keep you in mind.