Poll: Pickguard or no pickguard?
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Voters: 56.
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#1
Hi folks,

I'm ready to buy a gibson les paul. Currently I have a loan of a 1979 Les Paul Deluxe (with the mini-humbuckers). It sounds and feels great.

What is considered to be the "best" Gibson Les Paul?
I am new to gibson so would appreciate any thoughts you chaps may have.

Best regards,

Adam
#2
Genres, dude. What do you want to play on it? Some people will ask you about your amp aswell.
#3
comes down to personal opinion. i find the custom very sexy. particular a vintaged white one that looks creamy. like randy's. i also like a 1959 standard with the sunburst goddamn thats sexy too
#4
obviously look at gibsons custom shop tho its very expensive

I have and recommend the gibson LP standard, my guitar vibrates now that i intonated it after string change, wierd but awesome
#5
Quote by Aziraphale
Genres, dude. What do you want to play on it? Some people will ask you about your amp aswell.


Appoloigies. I have a Marshall JMC900 head through a 4x12 cab, a Marshall AVT275X and a MesaBoogie F50.
I play primarily rock and blues (plenty zeppelin - surprize surprize).

Cheers,
Adam
#6
I personally don't like the shape of Les Pauls...
Jackson King V KVX10
Line 6 Spider III 75 W.
Peavey 5150/6505 Combo to be owned at the end of 2010.
#8
Quote by SloppyJoseph
You're a towel.

Don't call me shoeless, Your shoeless!

and the right les paul is the one that was made for you. Shop around.
Gear

93 Jackson Dinky Professional Reverse
98 Jackson Kelly KE3

Peavey Bandit 112
Custom 2x10 cab w/Bugeras
#9
Quote by mrjarvie
Hi folks,

I'm ready to buy a gibson les paul. Currently I have a loan of a 1979 Les Paul Deluxe (with the mini-humbuckers). It sounds and feels great.

What is considered to be the "best" Gibson Les Paul?
I am new to gibson so would appreciate any thoughts you chaps may have.

Best regards,

Adam


The BEST is NEVER which is the most expensive, and generally NOT one that has an endorsement attached (ie a Zakk Wylde or a Joe Perry LP).

The BEST, really translates into "which LP would be the best FOR ME". There is no "best" anything.

Determine what you will be using it for (style of play), then take YOUR GEAR to the music store and try out a bunch of them. Whichever sounds best, and plays best... for YOU.. is your "best" LP.

Good luck!
Quote by hrdcorelaxplaya
Your crappy amp achieved a purposely crappy tone? I'll alert the presses.
#10
My argument will forever be, if you have to ask "which is the best..." or "what would suit me most...", then you shouldn't be buying whatever it is in the first place. We're talking about guitars that cost into the multiple thousands, if you can't already tell yourself which is the best for you, then I don't think you should be bothering at all. However, that said...


The 'best' Les Pauls are of course the Gibson Custom Shop models, especially the VOS ones. My personal preference would be the '59 VOS. All of the Custom Shop models are superb though, really you should just go to the Gibson Custom Shop site and read up - it's just down to your personal preference which would be better. You'll be looking at spending several thousand though (around $5000 US, I think - they're £3800 here, which is about $7,500, but America normally gets guitars about a third cheaper than we do).

Following that, there is one Gibson Production model - the Gibson Les Paul Supreme - that is almost as good. They cost a little over half the price of a Custom Shop model in most countries, and they're almost as good. The downsides to them though are the pickups are two of the worst pickups Gibson supply (a 490 and a 498), and they're chambered (as are all production Gibson models - Custom Shop models aren't). Personally, I do think although the body and neck woods are of a slightly higher grade than in the other production Gibsons, I don't think they're really worth the extra thousand. Especially when you consider the next Les Pauls in line...

Epiphone Elitists. Yes, I know you said Gibson, but the Epiphone Elitist range is superior quality to most of the Gibson production (i.e. non-Custom Shop) range. The one and only production Gibson that beats an Elitist is the above mentioned Supreme, and even then, the only thing the Supreme beats them in is the maple cap on the Supreme is AAAA (Elitists uses AAA), and the body and neck mahogany is barely a grade higher. The Elitists come with superior pickups though, and do of course cost over a thousand cheaper in most countries (and in some places, even more than that). Other differences (which are not necessarily better or worse) are the Elitists of course use the Epi neck profile rather than a Gibson neck profile, it'll say Epiphone on the headstock rather than Gibson (so you're missing out on 'vital' street cred - meh), and the Elitists are finish with a poly finish, rather than a nitro finish; this means the Elitists have a slightly darker and thicker tone than the Gibsons. They also don't fade quite as fast, and are more resilient to bumps, chips and so on. Of course, some people may want the lighter tone of the Gibson, and they might also want their guitar to fade quicker and get scratched and bashed about a bit.
The other difference is of course, the Gibson retains it's value a bit more than the Epiphone would if you choose to resell the guitar later. Personally I'm never bothered about this, but I know it's a big issue for some people.


After the Epiphone Elitists, come the production (non Custom Shop) Gibsons. Of course the best guitars here - in fact the only ones you should bother with - are the Standard and Classic series. These two series (and all the guitars in them) are mostly the same, the only differences are which pickups they come stock with, and which neck you can get with which finish. All of the guitars in the Standard and Classic ranges have the same quality mahogany backs (this is chambered mahogany though), and have AA maple caps (some flame, some plain). The Standards are made with either the 50's or 60's neck profiles (the 50's generally cost a couple of hundred more), the Classics all come with 60's neck profiles only. The pickups are all pretty average on these guitars, though the Classic Antiques and Classic Customs come with the '57 Classic pickups, which are as good as Gibson pickups get on production models (Standards come with BurstBucker Pros which are far worse than the #1/2/3 series used on most Custom Shop models, regular Classics come with the 496 and 500 pickups which are utterly ****). Changing pickups is easy enough though of course. Generally, the Classic Custom is considered the best of these, though it only comes with one neck profile (60's) and one finish (black with a ****load of gold). I would argue that the Classic Antique is the next model down from that (almost the same build, but more finish options), then the Standards, then the regular Classic.

Somewhat below this are some now discontinued Gibson models, and Epiphone's signature and higher-end production model guitars. This means:
Gibson:
GT
Menace
Goddess
various Juniors

Epiphone:
Joe Perry Boneyard
Slash signature (I would argue this is a pointless guitar, but it's getting rave reviews)
Ultra*
Ultra II*
*I argue that the Ultra and Ultra II shouldn't be considered along with other Les Pauls, as they are basically semi hollowbody guitars. They give an entirely different tone than other LPs, and as such, you should consider them to be an entirely separate kind of guitar.

These are all 'good' guitars, and are worth the price they cost. The downsides are those Gibsons are no longer in production (you have to buy either old stock or second hand), and the Epiphones are... well, Epiphones.


Below that are Gibson's low-end production models and Epiphone's regular production models. These include:
Gibson:
Studio
Vintage Mahogany
Faded
BFG

Epiphone:
Black Beauty
Custom/Custom Plus
Standard/Standard Plus
56 Goldtop

Honest to god, I don't think any of the Gibsons there are worth ever touching. I've owned a couple of them and I hated all of them. The Epiphones are around the same quality as those Gibsons, but they don't feel like quite such a kick in the bollocks as at least they only cost half what the crap Gibsons cost - that's the price you pay though for getting 'Gibson' on the headstock, same actual quality, but double the cost.


Below that there are a few really old Gibson models and of course the low end Epiphones (Studio, 100, Junior, Special-II), but those are all so god-awful I wouldn't ever advise anyone to go anywhere near them.

Quote by GraceKim
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/lespaulguide

Check out a Les Paul guide. This gives you basic information about the various Les Paul models available.
It's a good guide and I also urge everyone to read it, but do bear in mind, it's now old and quite a lot of the infomation is outdated - some of the models they talk about have been discontinued, and both Epiphone and Gibson switched up their production a couple of years back too, after that guide was written, so some of the smaller details are now incorrect as well. I which MF would update that guide (it's several years old now), but eh. Worth reading anyway.
Last edited by bokuho at Feb 25, 2008,
#11
You have the same amp as me, and I have played a Les Paul Deluxe through one, and it was a great sound.

BUT since you do play a lot of Zeppelin, I would say get a Gibson Les Paul Standard.

It's the best all around guitar, it's a little overpriced, but it's either the Standard or the Classic, don't look at anything unless it's a deluxe or supreme.
High as tits
#12
Quote by bokuho
My argument will forever be, if you have to ask "which is the best..." or "what would suit me most...", then you shouldn't be buying whatever it is in the first place. We're talking about guitars that cost into the multiple thousands, if you can't already tell yourself which is the best for you, then I don't think you should be bothering at all. However, that said...


The 'best' Les Pauls are of course the Gibson Custom Shop models, especially the VOS ones. My personal preference would be the '59 VOS. All of the Custom Shop models are superb though, really you should just go to the Gibson Custom Shop site and read up - it's just down to your personal preference which would be better. You'll be looking at spending several thousand though (around $5000 US, I think - they're £3800 here, which is about $7,500, but America normally gets guitars about a third cheaper than we do).

Following that, there is one Gibson Production model - the Gibson Les Paul Supreme - that is almost as good. They cost a little over half the price of a Custom Shop model in most countries, and they're almost as good. The downsides to them though are the pickups are two of the worst pickups Gibson supply (a 490 and a 498), and they're chambered (as are all production Gibson models - Custom Shop models aren't). Personally, I do think although the body and neck woods are of a slightly higher grade than in the other production Gibsons, I don't think they're really worth the extra thousand. Especially when you consider the next Les Pauls in line...

Epiphone Elitists. Yes, I know you said Gibson, but the Epiphone Elitist range is superior quality to most of the Gibson production (i.e. non-Custom Shop) range. The one and only production Gibson that beats an Elitist is the above mentioned Supreme, and even then, the only thing the Supreme beats them in is the maple cap on the Supreme is AAAA (Elitists uses AAA), and the body and neck mahogany is barely a grade higher. The Elitists come with superior pickups though, and do of course cost over a thousand cheaper in most countries (and in some places, even more than that). Other differences (which are not necessarily better or worse) are the Elitists of course use the Epi neck profile rather than a Gibson neck profile, it'll say Epiphone on the headstock rather than Gibson (so you're missing out on 'vital' street cred - meh), and the Elitists are finish with a poly finish, rather than a nitro finish; this means the Elitists have a slightly darker and thicker tone than the Gibsons. They also don't fade quite as fast, and are more resilient to bumps, chips and so on. Of course, some people may want the lighter tone of the Gibson, and they might also want their guitar to fade quicker and get scratched and bashed about a bit.
The other difference is of course, the Gibson retains it's value a bit more than the Epiphone would if you choose to resell the guitar later. Personally I'm never bothered about this, but I know it's a big issue for some people.


After the Epiphone Elitists, come the production (non Custom Shop) Gibsons. Of course the best guitars here - in fact the only ones you should bother with - are the Standard and Classic series. These two series (and all the guitars in them) are mostly the same, the only differences are which pickups they come stock with, and which neck you can get with which finish. All of the guitars in the Standard and Classic ranges have the same quality mahogany backs (this is chambered mahogany though), and have AA maple caps (some flame, some plain). The Standards are made with either the 50's or 60's neck profiles (the 50's generally cost a couple of hundred more), the Classics all come with 60's neck profiles only. The pickups are all pretty average on these guitars, though the Classic Antiques and Classic Customs come with the '57 Classic pickups, which are as good as Gibson pickups get on production models (Standards come with BurstBucker Pros which are far worse than the #1/2/3 series used on most Custom Shop models, regular Classics come with the 496 and 500 pickups which are utterly ****). Changing pickups is easy enough though of course. Generally, the Classic Custom is considered the best of these, though it only comes with one neck profile (60's) and one finish (black with a ****load of gold). I would argue that the Classic Antique is the next model down from that (almost the same build, but more finish options), then the Standards, then the regular Classic.

Somewhat below this are some now discontinued Gibson models, and Epiphone's signature and higher-end production model guitars. This means:
Gibson:
GT
Menace
Goddess
various Juniors

Epiphone:
Joe Perry Boneyard
Slash signature (I would argue this is a pointless guitar, but it's getting rave reviews)
Ultra*
Ultra II*
*I argue that the Ultra and Ultra II shouldn't be considered along with other Les Pauls, as they are basically semi hollowbody guitars. They give an entirely different tone than other LPs, and as such, you should consider them to be an entirely separate kind of guitar.

These are all 'good' guitars, and are worth the price they cost. The downsides are those Gibsons are no longer in production (you have to buy either old stock or second hand), and the Epiphones are... well, Epiphones.


Below that are Gibson's low-end production models and Epiphone's regular production models. These include:
Gibson:
Studio
Vintage Mahogany
Faded
BFG

Epiphone:
Black Beauty
Custom/Custom Plus
Standard/Standard Plus
56 Goldtop

Honest to god, I don't think any of the Gibsons there are worth ever touching. I've owned a couple of them and I hated all of them. The Epiphones are around the same quality as those Gibsons, but they don't feel like quite such a kick in the bollocks as at least they only cost half what the crap Gibsons cost - that's the price you pay though for getting 'Gibson' on the headstock, same actual quality, but double the cost.


Below that there are a few really old Gibson models and of course the low end Epiphones (Studio, 100, Junior, Special-II), but those are all so god-awful I wouldn't ever advise anyone to go anywhere near them.

It's a good guide and I also urge everyone to read it, but do bear in mind, it's now old and quite a lot of the infomation is outdated - some of the models they talk about have been discontinued, and both Epiphone and Gibson switched up their production a couple of years back too, after that guide was written, so some of the smaller details are now incorrect as well. I which MF would update that guide (it's several years old now), but eh. Worth reading anyway.



+like... a billion.... dude what a great post....
Quote by hrdcorelaxplaya
Your crappy amp achieved a purposely crappy tone? I'll alert the presses.
#13
It's all subjective. I put down a $3000 custom shop LP for an $800 vintage mahogany and have never been happier.
ESP LTD EC-256 and a Fender Deluxe VM
#14
So according to the MF guide the only differences between the Studio and the Standard are no figured maple top (by the way figuring does not have much to do with sound,) no binding and the pickups are more modern 490's (which I prefer because of their definition, power and articulation) instead of Burstbuckers (which start to sound muddy.) So no inferior wood, no inferior electronics, and I believe you can assume the same quality control.
Moral of the story: Les Paul Studios rock!
This should put an end to the crap about inferior wood and electronics on the Studio.
#15
In order to avoid quoting your 3 mile long post I'll just post your name in referance to your comment bokuho

I disagree in the beginning of your post that if someone asks what the best is, they arn't ready to buy it. I think that someone is just looking for some advice, and wondering if the most expensive really is the best. I could say, "what is the best lp in your opinion," and from peoples comments discern some advantages and disadvantages to some of the different models and why people prefer one over the other.

I do agree though just to check out the LP guides and try some out!
#16
Thanks for all the responses so far guys.

@ bokuho - Many thanks indeed for that massively in depth reply. Your extensive knowledge on the subject is much appreciated.
Perhaps I should have stated earlier that I am a serious player with over 10 years experience. I very much appreciate the fact that there is never an out and out best - hence the use of "" in my original post - and that personal preference is always the dominating factor when it comes to buying.
A friend of mine has a £150 Strat replica that I thoroughly enjoy ripping on.

With my limited Gibson knowledge, my hope in writing this post was to determine whether or not there are particular models (or production runs) to avoid for whatever reason and if there might be a particular model that is generally considered superior.
Just trying to gather some expert knowledge and opinions.
I think that says it.... I'll stop for fear of contradicting myself.

From perusing the replies the custom shop models sound most interesting to me. Of course I shall be trying plenty others though.

Once again, thanks for all input thus far chaps.

PS - bokuho, you should share your brain with Wikipedia
My Gear:

Guitars:
Gibson Les Paul R9 (VOS)
Gibson Les Paul Deluxe
Ibanez Jem 7V
Ibanez RG 550
Fender Strat (USA)
Fender Strat Deluxe Plus (USA)
Parker Fly Deluxe

AMPS:
JMC 2000 through 4x12" Cab.
Marshall AVT275
MesaBoogie F50
#17
Well then the simple answer is: Custom Shop models, Supreme production model. These are the best quality, top Gibson Les Pauls, no questioning.


And it has been suggested to me before that I write a proper guide or something, such as on Wikipedia, but I can't say I'm keen on the idea. I only got my own knowledge from reading as many guides, spec sheets and press releases as possible, so anything I write is really just an amalgamation of everything I've read in the past - I can't offer anything new that people couldn't look up for themselves anyway, just as I did. I've done a bit of my own research on my own guitars too, but that's useless anyway as nobody ever believes you when you say "this is what I found out...".
Plus I just hate Wikipedia. It's so impossibly inaccurate most of the time, and when things do get changed, it's normally stupidly reverted back within minutes simply because you couldn't find a link which backs up anything you say. One of the guitarists from goth rock band Tristania once corrected some information on their page on wikipedia, and some tosser reverted what he'd written and told him to cite his sources with a link to another site backing up his 'claims'... when he was a member of the band itself. It's just so ridiculously stupid, a person can't even write about themselves without being challenged.


... Ahem. Yes, so, well...

Quote by uldhppi
So according to the MF guide the only differences between the Studio and the Standard are no figured maple top (by the way figuring does not have much to do with sound,) no binding and the pickups are more modern 490's (which I prefer because of their definition, power and articulation) instead of Burstbuckers (which start to sound muddy.) So no inferior wood, no inferior electronics, and I believe you can assume the same quality control.
Moral of the story: Les Paul Studios rock!
This should put an end to the crap about inferior wood and electronics on the Studio.
Except that's completely wrong.

Studios were just 'stripped down' Standards, until the later 90's. For the last seven or eight years though, Studios (and Vintage Mahogany and Faded series) have been made with lower grade wood (specifically, hacked-up offcuts; they're not even solid slab construction anymore!), lower quality cast hardware, crappier wiring and pots, and so on.

If you can find a mid-90's Studio, it's worth getting, they were brilliant guitars and really the only difference was just they had no binding and other such 'flash'. A new Studio though isn't worth touching if your life depends on it.
#18
Quote by bokuho
Studios (and Vintage Mahogany and Faded series) have been made with lower grade wood (specifically, hacked-up offcuts; they're not even solid slab construction anymore!)

I can verify this much. The backs on all the VM's I've seen are made of two pieces of wood versus the single piece that is present on everything from the Standard on up. There are some imperfections (tooling marks, voids, etc) in the wood as well.

The hardware on my VM and my cousin's Studio appear of equal quality and construction to all of the current production Standard's I've played (down to the rate of wear observed and the casting marks). When opened up I examined no discernible difference in the quality of the electrical components or solder joints. The action on the toggle switches feels consistent between the models and the pots are marked the same and have identical feel and movement.
ESP LTD EC-256 and a Fender Deluxe VM
#19
Quote by jimzer
comes down to personal opinion.


it does indeed.
Gear
Gibson Les Paul std faded, Godin LG
Marshall jcm900
Keeley ds1, maxon od808, boston tu500, RMC Wizard
#20
Quote by shredforbread33
Don't call me shoeless, Your shoeless!

and the right les paul is the one that was made for you. Shop around.



Why's everybody riding me today God Damnit.
#21
Quote by bokuho
Well then the simple answer is: Custom Shop models, Supreme production model. These are the best quality, top Gibson Les Pauls, no questioning.


And it has been suggested to me before that I write a proper guide or something, such as on Wikipedia, but I can't say I'm keen on the idea. I only got my own knowledge from reading as many guides, spec sheets and press releases as possible, so anything I write is really just an amalgamation of everything I've read in the past - I can't offer anything new that people couldn't look up for themselves anyway, just as I did. I've done a bit of my own research on my own guitars too, but that's useless anyway as nobody ever believes you when you say "this is what I found out...".
Plus I just hate Wikipedia. It's so impossibly inaccurate most of the time, and when things do get changed, it's normally stupidly reverted back within minutes simply because you couldn't find a link which backs up anything you say. One of the guitarists from goth rock band Tristania once corrected some information on their page on wikipedia, and some tosser reverted what he'd written and told him to cite his sources with a link to another site backing up his 'claims'... when he was a member of the band itself. It's just so ridiculously stupid, a person can't even write about themselves without being challenged.


... Ahem. Yes, so, well...

Except that's completely wrong.

Studios were just 'stripped down' Standards, until the later 90's. For the last seven or eight years though, Studios (and Vintage Mahogany and Faded series) have been made with lower grade wood (specifically, hacked-up offcuts; they're not even solid slab construction anymore!), lower quality cast hardware, crappier wiring and pots, and so on.

If you can find a mid-90's Studio, it's worth getting, they were brilliant guitars and really the only difference was just they had no binding and other such 'flash'. A new Studio though isn't worth touching if your life depends on it.

Please cite your sources concerning the wood cuts. Nothing I have seen thus far, including my own research supports your contention that Gibson uses inferior cuts of wood. The only link you have posted thus far lead to MF where there is no such thing implied or stated.
Last edited by uldhppi at Feb 25, 2008,
#22
Sigh. See, this is exactly what I mean about the completely retarded "cite everything!" mentality. really, really, **** wikipedia for starting this ****.

Quote by uldhppi
Please cite your sources concerning the wood cuts. Nothing I have seen thus far, including my own research supports your contention that Gibson uses inferior cuts of wood. The only link you have posted thus far lead to MF where there is no such thing implied or stated.


1) I didn't post the link, I was replying to the quote. Learn to read.
2) My 'sources' are myself. I've owned several Gibson models (including Studios, Fadeds and Standards), amoung many other guitars, on top of countless instruments I've borrowed and tested. I've modded, cut up, poked around with and generally inspected every single one (bar one: a Kramer Jersey Star. I'd rather cut my arms off than cut that up). Whether you choose to believe my findings or not, is up to you. If someone asks for infomation or help, I'll provide any infomation that I think is correct and helpful, be it from my own findings or from something I read elsewhere. If you think anything I say isn't correct, I'm willing to learn and listen to whatever corrections you have.
#23
I have a 2002/1957 Goldtop reissue and a 2007/1958 Sunburst, I find that they are wonderful guitars and play amazingly. So if you can find one of these I would go ahead and get one.

(old picture of Goldtop now it is signed by Les Paul under the bridge.)



SORRY IF THE PICTURE ARE TO BIG MODERATORS.
Quote by bemiswins
if someone flames you on the internet for music you like, they fail.


Here's my YouTube if anyone wants to see some of my videos.
Last edited by Benguitar2 at Feb 25, 2008,
#24
I'd say get a prs, much better quality and much better sounding to me
#25
Hey man that's the way it is in the guitar community. I believe one of the rules of this forum is not to pass on other people's opinions as facts. If as it appears it is only opinion and cannot be substanciated by facts then it is BS. I rest my case.
#26
Quote by Benguitar2
I have a 2002/1957 Goldtop reissue and a 2007/1958 Sunburst, I find that they are wonderful guitars and play amazingly.


Very nice indeed.
I must say I am really fancying a 1959 Les Paul Standard (VOC). Its an insanely nice guitar.
My Gear:

Guitars:
Gibson Les Paul R9 (VOS)
Gibson Les Paul Deluxe
Ibanez Jem 7V
Ibanez RG 550
Fender Strat (USA)
Fender Strat Deluxe Plus (USA)
Parker Fly Deluxe

AMPS:
JMC 2000 through 4x12" Cab.
Marshall AVT275
MesaBoogie F50
#27
if u got the cash (about $2500) i would go for a custom with an ebony finish and gold plating.....i think im drooling on my keyboard now...woops.....its my sisters anyway....
#28
If I had the cash I would buy a 1958 Les Paul plain top Cherry burst Standard at £150,000, And I would have a 1959 Les Paul Standard at £250,000.
I'm so gready I have allot of LP's now.
I would look into the VOS LP's though a nice 58 plain top like Page plays, VOS is the best I have played along with my Standard P90.
member #3 of the Les Paul owners club, pm Waterboy799 to join

Gibson Les Paul Std Trans Amber
Gibson Les Paul Std P90 Gold top
Gibson Les Paul 1968 Custom V.O.S.
1980 Chiquita Travel Guitar
Fender 2006 Anniversary
Ashdown Fallen Angel stack.
#29
Quote by Cloudkill

I would look into the VOS LP's though a nice 58 plain top like Page plays, VOS is the best I have played along with my Standard P90.


Page played a 1959 Gibson Les Paul Standard (given to him by Joe Walsh) too yes?
My Gear:

Guitars:
Gibson Les Paul R9 (VOS)
Gibson Les Paul Deluxe
Ibanez Jem 7V
Ibanez RG 550
Fender Strat (USA)
Fender Strat Deluxe Plus (USA)
Parker Fly Deluxe

AMPS:
JMC 2000 through 4x12" Cab.
Marshall AVT275
MesaBoogie F50
#30
Quote by uldhppi
If as it appears it is only opinion and cannot be substanciated by facts then it is BS. I rest my case.
This is what my main issue with the whole mentality is.

It doesn't matter who is saying what about any subject, it's just completely retarded to expect people to be able to instantly pull out a link to another page that replicates what they're saying. And if they can, then what's the point of re-writing it in the first place? You might as well just be typing up a list of links then.

I appreciate, understand and completely agree that you shouldn't always just blindly accept everything that people say, especially if it seems to just be random opinion. But it's also equally foolish to be demanding constant verification for every single thing anybody ever says about any subject. "If you can't give us a link to a page from the CEO of Gibson stating this is true then it must be completely made-up!" is just as bad as "You think the sky is green? Okay, let's rewrite all the science books, I completely believe you!".
#31
Quote by Cloudkill
If I had the cash I would buy a 1958 Les Paul plain top Cherry burst Standard at £150,000, And I would have a 1959 Les Paul Standard at £250,000.
I'm so gready I have allot of LP's now.
I would look into the VOS LP's though a nice 58 plain top like Page plays, VOS is the best I have played along with my Standard P90.


The chances of Page's #1 being a '58 are absolutely incredibly slim. It's likely to be a '59 or early '60.

Quote by mrjarvie
Page played a 1959 Gibson Les Paul Standard (given to him by Joe Walsh) too yes?


Yup, #1 was from Joe Walsh and either a '59 or '60. It's amusing how many gear sites will tell you #2 came from Walsh when it didn't.
#32
I like the Gibson Custom Shop 59 Standards. I think the Tobacco Sunburst with a good flame is freaking sick. I also really like the Slash Custom Shop, the Fishman bridge would be useful for me and the finish looks incredible, and the pickups are already there for me.
#33
Quote by Mockingbird452
I like the Gibson Custom Shop 59 Standards. I think the Tobacco Sunburst with a good flame is freaking sick.


HEAR FREAKIN' HEAR MY FRIEND!
My Gear:

Guitars:
Gibson Les Paul R9 (VOS)
Gibson Les Paul Deluxe
Ibanez Jem 7V
Ibanez RG 550
Fender Strat (USA)
Fender Strat Deluxe Plus (USA)
Parker Fly Deluxe

AMPS:
JMC 2000 through 4x12" Cab.
Marshall AVT275
MesaBoogie F50
#34
Reguarding the pickguard, i said no becuase it looks better w/o it, but i would hate to screw up a beauty like that!
Hello
#35
Quote by bokuho
My argument will forever be, if you have to ask "which is the best..." or "what would suit me most...", then you shouldn't be buying whatever it is in the first place. We're talking about guitars that cost into the multiple thousands, if you can't already tell yourself which is the best for you, then I don't think you should be bothering at all. However, that said...


The 'best' Les Pauls are of course the Gibson Custom Shop models, especially the VOS ones. My personal preference would be the '59 VOS. All of the Custom Shop models are superb though, really you should just go to the Gibson Custom Shop site and read up - it's just down to your personal preference which would be better. You'll be looking at spending several thousand though (around $5000 US, I think - they're £3800 here, which is about $7,500, but America normally gets guitars about a third cheaper than we do).

Following that, there is one Gibson Production model - the Gibson Les Paul Supreme - that is almost as good. They cost a little over half the price of a Custom Shop model in most countries, and they're almost as good. The downsides to them though are the pickups are two of the worst pickups Gibson supply (a 490 and a 498), and they're chambered (as are all production Gibson models - Custom Shop models aren't). Personally, I do think although the body and neck woods are of a slightly higher grade than in the other production Gibsons, I don't think they're really worth the extra thousand. Especially when you consider the next Les Pauls in line...

Epiphone Elitists. Yes, I know you said Gibson, but the Epiphone Elitist range is superior quality to most of the Gibson production (i.e. non-Custom Shop) range. The one and only production Gibson that beats an Elitist is the above mentioned Supreme, and even then, the only thing the Supreme beats them in is the maple cap on the Supreme is AAAA (Elitists uses AAA), and the body and neck mahogany is barely a grade higher. The Elitists come with superior pickups though, and do of course cost over a thousand cheaper in most countries (and in some places, even more than that). Other differences (which are not necessarily better or worse) are the Elitists of course use the Epi neck profile rather than a Gibson neck profile, it'll say Epiphone on the headstock rather than Gibson (so you're missing out on 'vital' street cred - meh), and the Elitists are finish with a poly finish, rather than a nitro finish; this means the Elitists have a slightly darker and thicker tone than the Gibsons. They also don't fade quite as fast, and are more resilient to bumps, chips and so on. Of course, some people may want the lighter tone of the Gibson, and they might also want their guitar to fade quicker and get scratched and bashed about a bit.
The other difference is of course, the Gibson retains it's value a bit more than the Epiphone would if you choose to resell the guitar later. Personally I'm never bothered about this, but I know it's a big issue for some people.


After the Epiphone Elitists, come the production (non Custom Shop) Gibsons. Of course the best guitars here - in fact the only ones you should bother with - are the Standard and Classic series. These two series (and all the guitars in them) are mostly the same, the only differences are which pickups they come stock with, and which neck you can get with which finish. All of the guitars in the Standard and Classic ranges have the same quality mahogany backs (this is chambered mahogany though), and have AA maple caps (some flame, some plain). The Standards are made with either the 50's or 60's neck profiles (the 50's generally cost a couple of hundred more), the Classics all come with 60's neck profiles only. The pickups are all pretty average on these guitars, though the Classic Antiques and Classic Customs come with the '57 Classic pickups, which are as good as Gibson pickups get on production models (Standards come with BurstBucker Pros which are far worse than the #1/2/3 series used on most Custom Shop models, regular Classics come with the 496 and 500 pickups which are utterly ****). Changing pickups is easy enough though of course. Generally, the Classic Custom is considered the best of these, though it only comes with one neck profile (60's) and one finish (black with a ****load of gold). I would argue that the Classic Antique is the next model down from that (almost the same build, but more finish options), then the Standards, then the regular Classic.

Somewhat below this are some now discontinued Gibson models, and Epiphone's signature and higher-end production model guitars. This means:
Gibson:
GT
Menace
Goddess
various Juniors

Epiphone:
Joe Perry Boneyard
Slash signature (I would argue this is a pointless guitar, but it's getting rave reviews)
Ultra*
Ultra II*
*I argue that the Ultra and Ultra II shouldn't be considered along with other Les Pauls, as they are basically semi hollowbody guitars. They give an entirely different tone than other LPs, and as such, you should consider them to be an entirely separate kind of guitar.

These are all 'good' guitars, and are worth the price they cost. The downsides are those Gibsons are no longer in production (you have to buy either old stock or second hand), and the Epiphones are... well, Epiphones.


Below that are Gibson's low-end production models and Epiphone's regular production models. These include:
Gibson:
Studio
Vintage Mahogany
Faded
BFG

Epiphone:
Black Beauty
Custom/Custom Plus
Standard/Standard Plus
56 Goldtop

Honest to god, I don't think any of the Gibsons there are worth ever touching. I've owned a couple of them and I hated all of them. The Epiphones are around the same quality as those Gibsons, but they don't feel like quite such a kick in the bollocks as at least they only cost half what the crap Gibsons cost - that's the price you pay though for getting 'Gibson' on the headstock, same actual quality, but double the cost.


Below that there are a few really old Gibson models and of course the low end Epiphones (Studio, 100, Junior, Special-II), but those are all so god-awful I wouldn't ever advise anyone to go anywhere near them.

It's a good guide and I also urge everyone to read it, but do bear in mind, it's now old and quite a lot of the infomation is outdated - some of the models they talk about have been discontinued, and both Epiphone and Gibson switched up their production a couple of years back too, after that guide was written, so some of the smaller details are now incorrect as well. I which MF would update that guide (it's several years old now), but eh. Worth reading anyway.

bloody brilliant post im saving this in a notepad document lol......
#36
Quote by phillyguitar
In order to avoid quoting your 3 mile long post I'll just post your name in referance to your comment bokuho

I disagree in the beginning of your post that if someone asks what the best is, they arn't ready to buy it. I think that someone is just looking for some advice, and wondering if the most expensive really is the best. I could say, "what is the best lp in your opinion," and from peoples comments discern some advantages and disadvantages to some of the different models and why people prefer one over the other.

I do agree though just to check out the LP guides and try some out!

I'm not trying to bag on your guitar, but you gotta remember that it is musicians friend, the wal-mart of music. They're going to describe anything that they sell in a way that will make you want to buy it. And if you look under the hood of a studio versus standard you can see quite a bit of difference. And the studio has no figured maple top, meaning no maple top period, but that doesn't necassarily make it worse.
I always say though that quality =/= love.
#37
Quote by ohshait
I'd say get a prs, much better quality and much better sounding to me



O_O Ah how could you say that!!!

Just kidding, I favor Gibson Les Pauls but everyone has "their" guitar, I am a Les Paul guy and my friend is a strat guy so we are so different in our guitars and playing styles but what ever floats your boat and which ever feels best in your hand and sounds best to you.

So I would say "yes Gibson Les Pauls are really really good and I favor them, BUT if you are willing to spend that much money on a guitar I would play around and see if maybe you like a SG or a Firebird or maybe a Telecaster?

Also when you find the model you want, play many different guitars of that model because of there are 4 Les Pauls on the wall and they are all standards they will ALL sound different just just have to play them all and pick the one you like most.

So which ever one you chose will be a good one if you play many of them first.
Quote by bemiswins
if someone flames you on the internet for music you like, they fail.


Here's my YouTube if anyone wants to see some of my videos.
#38
Can I ask a quick question? Whats the difference between the VOS series and the like... reissues?

Are there any differences in pickups, the way its crafted? or anything like that.

Thanks.
#39
Quote by Mockingbird452
Whats the difference between the VOS series and the like... reissues?


Vintage original spec (VOS), as the title suggests, are reissues that are true to the original '58, '59', etc specification.
Reissues look the same but aren't necessarily vintage spec.

I'm not 100% on this one so by all means jump in and correct me.

Cheers.
My Gear:

Guitars:
Gibson Les Paul R9 (VOS)
Gibson Les Paul Deluxe
Ibanez Jem 7V
Ibanez RG 550
Fender Strat (USA)
Fender Strat Deluxe Plus (USA)
Parker Fly Deluxe

AMPS:
JMC 2000 through 4x12" Cab.
Marshall AVT275
MesaBoogie F50
#40
That's about right. Reissues often look the same and are built roughly the same as the original guitars, but often come 'updated'. An example would be the Fender Champion 600 amp which is a 'reissue'; it looks the same as the amp's it's based on, it has the same features, but they made the preamp run slightly harder so it overdrives a tiny bit quicker.

On the other hand, VOS guitars are built as close to the original guitar's specs as is humanly possible. Of course they can't perfectly replicate every single little detail, but they get as close as they can. They don't purposefully change anything at all, even if that means actually producing an inferior instrument (e.g. using poorer - but more historically accurate - tuners, when better, modern alternatives are available).
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