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#1
Any thoughts? I know it doesn't matter. I'm not even close. I was just wondering.
Yeathatwasme
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#2
fast
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Spamwise
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#5
this isn't the pit. serious replies please or don't post.

I was thinking something like 10-12 nps would be where shred would start.. like I said, I don't know though.
restless_thrash
Stonerificus
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#6
To the point where the noobs in the beginners forum say, "OMG something beyond a chord progression!"

Really, just until you think it's fast. Don't compare yourself to Michaelangelo batio. That makes me want to put the guitar down and cry.
z4twenny
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#7
i wouldn't say that fast, but could be. fast enough to be quick lol, i don't know why it matters though. i've had people tell me i "shred" but i don't think i do, especially in line with what the guys on here think. i wouldn't sweat it. play what you wanna play how you wanna play it whether its fast or slow and remember its there to make the song sound good, not just go a million miles an hour.
GuitarMunky
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#8
Quote by z4twenny
play what you wanna play how you wanna play it whether its fast or slow and remember its there to make the song sound good, not just go a million miles an hour.



+1

there is no "official shred speed".

To me, music isnt about stats, its about expressing something. The statement: "look how fast I am" is incredibly immature. cliche, and boring IMO.
shred is gaudy music
White_Devil
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#10
It doesn't really matter two much about speed, just as long as its technical. But i would say for a simple picking run, around 10nps +
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GuitarMunky
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#11
Quote by White_Devil
I. But i would say for a simple picking run, around 10nps +


what does that = in musical terms?
shred is gaudy music
z4twenny
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#12
^ well if you break it down mathematically it works out like this

10 nps x 60 sec/min = look at me i can play fast
Slaytanic1993
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#13
Well, I prefer to play at a slightly accelerated heartbeat (roughly 90 something bpm) when I write songs. It makes my stuff seem more soulful. If you want to write something like a jackhammer go ahead, we're not stopping you. That's why music is expression...do whatever the hell you want, if you can play like MAB...daymn (just in technicality's terms) if you can do more of a bluesy, feel-based, or a jazzy interlude even more daymn (I think emotive solos are better than shred, but whatever your slice o' pie, so be it)
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Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#14
Quote by Slaytanic1993
I think emotive solos are better than shred


You should just go away now, shred can be emotive; it all depends on the listener.

To be honest for me "shred" starts at about 11-12 notes per second but it doesn't start becoming technically impressive until at least 13-14 nps. However like most people have said, shred on it's own doesn't mean anything, you've got to have some sort of meaning to it or it's just showing off.
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z4twenny
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#15
^ yeah, im not saying don't, i'm just saying play what works for the song. if thats playing incredibly quick then do it. im just saying measurement by nps is irrelevent.
GuitarMunky
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#18
Quote by Galvanise69
In musical terms, it means that you can express yourself more easily, if you so desire.

I think one of the great misconceptions of speed, is you practice to be able to open up new areas in composition, playing, emotion, expression (speed and dynamics are part of expression) not to be able to shred. Dont get me wrong, shred is a great tool, but it should no way be substituted for music, like I said, its just a tool.



NPS = you can express yourself more easily ? how so?
shred is gaudy music
bangoodcharlote
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#19
Quote by GuitarMunky
how so?
If you ever find yourself needing to play fast, lots of time spent practicing will allow you to play and not restrict you.

Quote by GuitarMunky
Ive never been able to work out nps, granted maths is my worst subject, but I still dont get it. Well how to work it out.
It's not that hard. Here the formula, assuming x/4 time, x being any positive integer, and the quarter note getting the beat (no compound time!)

Number of Notes to a Beat=A
Tempo=B

NPS=AB/60

So, if you want to know how fast 16th notes are at 150bpm, multiply 170 by 4 (16th notes are 4 to a beat, not 16!) and divide by 60.

4*150/60=10nps.
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#20
like I said in my post, I realize it doesn't actually matter. I just thought it'd be an interestg topic of conversation.
GuitarMunky
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#22
Quote by bangoodcharlote
If you ever find yourself needing to play fast, lots of time spent practicing will allow you to play and not restrict you.


Yeah ofcourse, I agree that practicing will benefit your playing. I just meant the term NPS.

Quote by bangoodcharlote

It's not that hard. Here the formula, assuming x/4 time, x being any positive integer, and the quarter note getting the beat (no compound time!)

Number of Notes to a Beat=A
Tempo=B

NPS=AB/60

So, if you want to know how fast 16th notes are at 150bpm, multiply 170 by 4 (16th notes are 4 to a beat, not 16!) and divide by 60.

4*150/60=10nps.


I guess my point is, why would a person even want to have to make that calculation, when you could just say, I can play 16th notes at XXX speed. (or whatever note value at whatever speed). It's an unnecessary term because it has no direct musical application. it serves to impress the inexperienced, but even as a term meant to solely to impress, it doesn't say all that much.

think about this.

lets say a person says " I can play 15 nps" ( or whatever). Ok wow thats really impressive 15 notes in 1 SECOND!!! amazing.

Ok so now...... what note values? 16ths ??? 8ths? triplets ?? are they played striaight? swung ? what about articulations ?? is it sweep picking ? alternate picked ? economy?
is it a straight scale? is it melodic? straight 16th notes? syncopated rythems?


So my point is, ALL of those other things matter, even if your only goal is to impress.

Someone could play a sweep arpeggio at say 15 NPS, where another person might play something melodic, using accents, or a a syncopated rythem. Whos the better player? with a term like NPS.... youll never know because it focuses on one thing and avoids everything else. I think its a symptom of the genre, and that it promotes a sole focus on speed.

Anyway, its a personal pet peeve and thats my rant. Not meant to offend, but hopefully enlighten.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Feb 26, 2008,
bangoodcharlote
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#23
But when you're practicing something for speed, you do care about raw speed. Of course feeling and expression and dynamics are important, but raw speed is an asset as well.

Here's when NPS matters: What is a faster lick, 16th note triplets at 110bpm or 16th notes at 150 bpm? You need to convert both to NPS to discover that the first is slightly faster at 11nps.

Of course note values matter. That's what sheet music is for! But NPS is important as well.
GuitarMunky
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#24
Quote by bangoodcharlote
But when you're practicing something for speed, you do care about raw speed. Of course feeling and expression and dynamics are important, but raw speed is an asset as well.

Here's when NPS matters: What is a faster lick, 16th note triplets at 110bpm or 16th notes at 150 bpm? You need to convert both to NPS to discover that the first is slightly faster at 11nps.

Of course note values matter. That's what sheet music is for! But NPS is important as well.


you mean you cant measure speed in any other way?

Im not talking about fast vs slow, or fast vs feeling, im talking about what terms we use to describe it. Im saying NPS doesnt get the job done for anything beyond impressing those that are either unaware or uninterested in the other aspects of music.

Name one reason NPS is better/ more useful or more appropriate than note value / BPM


speaking of sheet music. Is there ever a reason that someone would have to put NPS in the place of the actual tempo?

Is there any musical situation at all in which the term NPS would useful ?
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Feb 26, 2008,
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#25
Quote by GuitarMunky
I guess my point is, why would a person even want to have to make that calculation, when you could just say, I can play 16th notes at XXX speed. (or whatever note value at whatever speed). It's an unnecessary term because it has no direct musical application. it serves to impress the inexperienced, but even as a term meant to solely to impress, it doesn't say all that much.

think about this.

lets say a person says " I can play 15 nps" ( or whatever). Ok wow thats really impressive 15 notes in 1 SECOND!!! amazing.

Ok so now...... what note values? 16ths ??? 8ths? triplets ?? are they played striaight? swung ? what about articulations ?? is it sweep picking ? alternate picked ? economy?
is it a straight scale? is it melodic? straight 16th notes? syncopated rythems?


So my point is, ALL of those other things matter, even if your only goal is to impress.

Someone could play a sweep arpeggio at say 15 NPS, where another person might play something melodic, using accents, or a a syncopated rythem. Whos the better player? with a term like NPS.... youll never know because it focuses on one thing and avoids everything else. I think its a symptom of the genre, and that it promotes a sole focus on speed.

Anyway, its a personal pet peeve and thats my rant. Not meant to offend, but hopefully enlighten.


Firstly I don't like your implication that sweep arpeggios can't be melodic, syncopated or accented.

Secondly while the term NPS is note a measure of any musical significance it is somewhat a measure of technical potential in terms or shred that removes all the complications that come with some people practicing in 16ths, 16th triplets, 32nds, 8ths or whatever, it is mainly used as a measure to settle arguments about pure technical ability and has no musical meaning whatsoever, anyone who uses it should understand this first but unfortunately there are those who do not.

Quote by GuitarMunky
Name one reason NPS is better/ more useful or more appropriate than note value / BPM


Because if you're trying to figure out who is fastest having one number that you can compare and say "yes, this guy is faster" is better. No it's not musically useful when writing music but in my learning of some songs I've been able to look at it, work out the nps and figure out that I can't play it up to tempo just yet so I should concentrate on it more because I know my limitations so I know what is going to need more practice.
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Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr at Feb 26, 2008,
GuitarMunky
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#26
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Firstly I don't like your implication that sweep arpeggios can't be melodic, syncopated or accented.


I didnt say that. My point was that NPS isnt enough to compare technical ability, because it leaves those other factors out. Someone playing a STRAIGHT arpeggio vs someone playing the same NPS, but incorporating more complicated nuances.... is NOT a fair or acurate comparison. So its not only not at all musical as you admit, its also not very useful as any sort of true measure of skill or technical proficiency.
shred is gaudy music
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#27
Quote by GuitarMunky
IMy point was that NPS isnt enough to compare technical ability, because it leaves those other factors out. Someone playing a STRAIGHT arpeggio vs someone playing the same NPS, but incorporating more complicated nuances.... is NOT a fair or acurate comparison. So its not only not at all musical as you admit, its also not very useful as any sort of true measure of skill or technical proficiency.


Well that's fair enough, it's mainly used to end arguments by sad bastards on internet forums then
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GuitarMunky
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#28
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Well that's fair enough, it's mainly used to end arguments by sad bastards on internet forums then


LOL

its just a personal pet peeve of mine. When I work on speed in particular, I work on different note values and particular speeds and work them up that way. That way if Im jamming over something, at say 160 BPM.... I know what i can pull off at that tempo.

My approach....use musical terms that can be applied in musical practice. You can still be into playing fast and you can still measure your speed skills and boast to the next shredder. but at least your terms will be consistent and applicable with what your doing... playing a musical instrument.
shred is gaudy music
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#29
Quote by GuitarMunky
My approach....use musical terms that can be applied in musical practice. You can still be into playing fast and you can still measure your speed skills and boast to the next shredder. but at least your terms will be consistent and applicable with what your doing... playing a musical instrument.


That's very true but as I have (in the past at least) said: only idiots used NPs as something to practice with; music is always the number one aim.
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Spamwise
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#30
I don't know, it just is kind of cool to see how many nps you're playing. bragging about it is of course stupid and immatuire, and if that's what a person is concentrating on they're missing the point.
fixationdarknes
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#31
Honestly, "shred" in itself is sort of a style of music. So, as long as it "sounds like shred," then it is. Has a lot to do with energy level and how you phrase notes.

But to answer your question I'd say the majority of "shred-like music" is around 12-16 nps. Some faster, some slower. But I'd say a good majority of it lies in that range.
Avedas
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#32
Quote by Galvanise69
What are you implying im a tool? I dont think theres a limit to speed of shredding, trust me, ive had many arguments about it with varios friends.

I also just want to add, usually shred is complicated licks/riffs, at a fast tempo.


Not you, the posters above you. Sorry for confusion.
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#33
Quote by Galvanise69
though all shred is "good shred"


You obviously haven't looked around nearly enough, there's plenty of bad shred out there.
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#34
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
You obviously haven't looked around nearly enough, there's plenty of bad shred out there.

I'd say all "real" shred is good shred. A lot of what is called "shredding" today I would just call "wanking".
Zaphod_Beeblebr
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#35
Quote by Spamwise
I'd say all "real" shred is good shred. A lot of what is called "shredding" today I would just call "wanking".


I'd say shred is shred no matter the quality, good shred is just good music like anything else.
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Eggmond
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#37
11 nps
ಠ_ಠ
<|>
/ω\



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bangoodcharlote
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#38
Quote by GuitarMunky
Name one reason NPS is better/ more useful or more appropriate than note value / BPM
NPS leads to meaningful numbers, 11, 13, even 16.7 is meaningful. If you have 16th notes at 150 bpm, that's 10 nps, as well as meaningful units; notes per second makes sense, even if it has little use aside from a pissing contest. If you use your equation to with 16th notes at 150 bpm, you get .1067 note minutes/(beat)^2. WTF does that mean? Additionally, the higher the number, the slower the playing, which is counter-intuitive. For this reason, we use notes per second to standardize speeds and compare 16th notes at 150 bpm with 16th note triplets at 120 bpm.
GuitarMunky
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#39
Quote by bangoodcharlote
NPS leads to meaningful numbers, 11, 13, even 16.7 is meaningful. If you have 16th notes at 150 bpm, that's 10 nps, as well as meaningful units; notes per second makes sense, even if it has little use aside from a pissing contest. If you use your equation to with 16th notes at 150 bpm, you get .1067 note minutes/(beat)^2. WTF does that mean? Additionally, the higher the number, the slower the playing, which is counter-intuitive. For this reason, we use notes per second to standardize speeds and compare 16th notes at 150 bpm with 16th note triplets at 120 bpm.



the thing is they are NOT meaningful numbers in any musical way. How many notes that can be played in a second is irrelevant to any music oriented discussion. What IS relevant, is the tempo.... which IS in beats per minute, and the many different possible note values.
You should never have to calculate how many notes you can play in a second, or in a minute. it has no musical relevance.

ask yourself this: if its such a useful term, why are guitarists.... specifically shred guitarists... the only ones that use it? Type in notes per second, or NPS in google. Find anything that doesnt relate to shred guitar?? You wont because it was INVENTED by shred guitarists that needed a way to make what they do SOUND more impressive.

A musician will impress listeners with their art, with how they use the materials to express themselves. Shredders impress other shredders with their stats (NPS). And they dont know enough about music to see it for it is. ( I dont mean ALL guitarists that shred.... just the ones that use NPS as a common term)


here is a pretty funny article

http://eatdrinkeat.blogspot.com/2007/12/58-notes-per-second.html

I love this line:

" When you express your speed in terms of notes per second instead of saying something like "64th notes at 200 bpm," you know you've truly, once and for all, transcended music. "
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Feb 27, 2008,
bangoodcharlote
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#40
Quote by GuitarMunky
the thing is they are NOT meaningful numbers in any musical way.
We're not talking about music. We're talking about speed. I'm sorry that you don't care about how fast you can play, but since you don't, kindly piss off.