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#83
i choose to simply look at it like this :

NPS is obviously a stat, a measurement of of how many notes you can play
you can play 14 notes per second? congrats, now here's the REAL question
can you play the right 14 notes?
#84
Quote by z4twenny
i choose to simply look at it like this :

NPS is obviously a stat, a measurement of of how many notes you can play
you can play 14 notes per second? congrats, now here's the REAL question
can you play the right 14 notes?

Yes?
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#86
Around 10+ notes i'd say, as long as it sounds musical not just some mindless shred like Franceso Farari.
#87
Quote by Warchest
mindless shred


As much as I dislike Fareri, there is no such thing as mindless shred; I expect he has to concentrate very hard on what he's playing, the term you're searching for is 'un-musical' or 'wank' not mindless.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


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#89
Quote by TheShred201
And how is what you called mindless shred not shred?


Who's this question to? No one said that mindless shred isn't shred, I just object to the idea that "mindless" shred exists, all shred takes though and effort but what most people call "mindless" is just something that has no musical value to them and should probably be called something like "wank" instead and even then should be qualified with "in my opinion".
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#91
Quote by TheShred201
Zaphod, it wasn't to you, it was to warchest:

Thread Purpose--How fast is shred
His answer--10 Plus notes [per second] as long as it's not mindless shred like Francesco Fareri.

My point--how is anything involving it being shred not shred.


All right, fair enough
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#92
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Who's this question to? No one said that mindless shred isn't shred, I just object to the idea that "mindless" shred exists, all shred takes though and effort but what most people call "mindless" is just something that has no musical value to them and should probably be called something like "wank" instead and even then should be qualified with "in my opinion".


This comes pretty close IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Eo1bXom2I

I hate to say, that while there certainly is creative, and musical shred..... the mindless sort does exist. Someone already pointed out to me that this guy can actually play music.... but this particular example is pretty close to mindlesss. I honestly wish guys like this didnt put out these kinds of videos. I think it sets a bad example. No reason a guy with chops like that, and is capable of playing actual music..... has to put out videos that do actually inspire the mindless wank sort of thing like this. IMO it gives shred a bad name.

Anyway it doesnt matter. There is mindless crap in all genres. The good stuff usually stands out the most.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 3, 2008,
#93
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
All right, fair enough


I agree with your point on mindlessness & similar terms though. Just like I feel that it is impossible to have music which actually doesn't instill some type of emotion. People through that term out a lot, but happiness and sadness aren't the only emotions. Anger, confusion, even boredom--all of these I would consider emotion. Then there's the fact that some people immediately dismiss fast music and don't even spend time to understand what emotion there truly is in the playing. Then other's just can't comprehend the emotion in fast music, or so it seems ...Then there are the people who complain about a lack of emotion in exercises or instructional videos


Nothing against you guitar monkey, but that's a picking exercise song from an instructional DVD. It's not a listen and enjoy song-it's the ending exercise of a dvd from chops from hell. That is designed to improve your alternate picking.
Last edited by TheShred201 at Mar 3, 2008,
#94
Quote by GuitarMunky
This comes pretty close IMO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3Eo1bXom2I

I hate to say, that while there certainly is creative, and musical shred..... the mindless sort does exist. Someone already pointed out to me that this guy can actually play music.... but this particular example is pretty close to mindlesss. I honestly wish guys like this didnt put out these kinds of videos. I think it sets a bad example. No reason a guy with chops like that, and this is capable of playing music..... has to put out videos that do actually inspire the mindless wank sort of thing like this.

Anyway it doesnt matter. There is mindless crap in all genres. The good stuff usually stands out the most.


Isn't that from his Art of Picking video? If so it's probably just an exercise; I still maintain that there is no "mindless" shred, all the shred I've ever seen usually has the player concentrating on what they're doing quite a bit, whether it was good or not.

Quote by TheShred201
I agree with your point on mindlessness & similar terms though. Just like I feel that it is impossible to have music which actually doesn't instill some type of emotion. People through that term out a lot, but happiness and sadness aren't the only emotions. Anger, confusion, even boredom--all of these I would consider emotion. Then there's the fact that some people immediately dismiss fast music and don't even spend time to understand what emotion there truly is in the playing. Then other's just can't comprehend the emotion in fast music, or so it seems ...Then there are the people who complain about a lack of emotion in exercises or instructional videos


I totally agree with that; that's why whenever I'm talking about music I always try to say "I didn't like it" rather than just "that is crap".
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#96
Quote by TheShred201
I agree with your point on mindlessness & similar terms though. Just like I feel that it is impossible to have music which actually doesn't instill some type of emotion. People through that term out a lot, but happiness and sadness aren't the only emotions. Anger, confusion, even boredom--all of these I would consider emotion. Then there's the fact that some people immediately dismiss fast music and don't even spend time to understand what emotion there truly is in the playing. Then other's just can't comprehend the emotion in fast music, or so it seems ...Then there are the people who complain about a lack of emotion in exercises or instructional videos



while I agree with most of your points, I have to say that there is music without emotion. I know alot of people say that about shred, and it probably offends you and puts you on the defensive, but there really are cases where emotional disconnect exists. Its more prevalent in shred because some of the players treat it more like a sport than an art. I wish they didnt, but some do. Anyway, no need to defend them. They are there, but so are other players that shred, AND play with emotion.
shred is gaudy music
#97
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Isn't that from his Art of Picking video? If so it's probably just an exercise; I still maintain that there is no "mindless" shred, all the shred I've ever seen usually has the player concentrating on what they're doing quite a bit, whether it was good or not.


I totally agree with that; that's why whenever I'm talking about music I always try to say "I didn't like it" rather than just "that is crap".



That particular example shows muscle memory.... hes just taking the same pattern and moving around. IMO it truly is mindless. I understand its an exercise.

BTW when I say mindless..... I mean it loosely. Of-course their is some brain involvement. But I think in some cases, that involvement is minimal.
shred is gaudy music
#98
I'm still saying--even if it makes you bored, that's an emotion. It may not be an emotion that you like, but it's an emotion nonetheless. And I'd extend my comment--I used shred instead of music, since this thread is about shred, but it's all the same for my point.

In fact, I would challenge anyone to try to find or create a piece of music which instills no emotion in me. And if I find no emotion, you can be sure that no one else is going to.
#99
Emotions are something that you express. A good artist channels them through the music. Not all players are good artists. Some players cant make an emotional connection and it certainly is possible to play something on the guitar that isnt driven by emotions. I personally dont care to listen to that sort of thing, but it does exist.

Quote by TheShred201


In fact, I would challenge anyone to try to find or create a piece of music which instills no emotion in me. And if I find no emotion, you can be sure that no one else is going to.


that rusty cooley example
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 3, 2008,
#100
GuitarMunky, by your above post, playing chromatics is a poor way to start building alternate picking--it's the same pattern moved around. And actually, on that exercise, it's not all the same finger pattern. It all fits in a scale, but I can't remember what it is, but the grouping of hole steps and half steps changes between areas. Also, (I didn't watch the whole youtube vid to see all of it, as I've seen the whole section before), if it has the whole piece, it goes into several other different patterns than just the original pattern.

The rusty cooley example makes me feel:

Bored because it's relatively dull musically.
Slightly impressed by his technique.
Last edited by TheShred201 at Mar 3, 2008,
#101
Well, Emotions don't have to be expressed...you can bottle them up inside you, but I know what you mean in music. The argument about emotion in music comes from the listener, not the player--I was saying that the listener will face some emotion after listening to something. Whether the creation of the music was due to that emotion in the composer is hard to discern.

And who wants to listen to music that makes them bored?

Edit: Sorry for the double post. I assumed you would have added one before I finished typing this one However, I'm proud of the fact that we can debate this on here without anyone gets pissed. That ability seems to be lost on this forum nowadays...
#102
Quote by TheShred201
GuitarMunky, by your above post, playing chromatics is a poor way to start building alternate picking--it's the same pattern moved around. And actually, on that exercise, it's not all the same finger pattern. It all fits in a scale, but I can't remember what it is, but the grouping of hole steps and half steps changes between areas. Also, (I didn't watch the whole youtube vid to see all of it, as I've seen the whole section before), if it has the whole piece, it goes into several other different patterns than just the original pattern.


Your right I dont care much for the quasi chromatic (spider) exercise for alternate picking. Yeah his grouping changes but its the same pattern more or less. When you moving around diatonically on the neck those groupings change. Its not a composition though.... its a patterning moving around that once mastered...... take practically no thought ( or very very little)...... its muscle memory.


Quote by TheShred201
However, I'm proud of the fact that we can debate this on here without anyone gets pissed. That ability seems to be lost on this forum nowadays...


Me 2. its just different people with different points of view. Im happy to debate it as well.
shred is gaudy music
#103
In that case his muscles are being mindful...But by this aregument, if you played sunshine of your love enough (any song), you will have it down by muscle memory, unless you are improvising or something, and it would be mindless. Sadly, I've never seen someone doing a cover of an eric clapton/Jimmy Page/Hendrix/etc. song being called mindless.

And yeah, debating stuff is fun, and is a good way to learn on both sides. You just have to be smart about what you say so you don't start making people angry (an emotion! ). haha....
Last edited by TheShred201 at Mar 3, 2008,
#104
Quote by TheShred201
In that case his muscles are being mindful...But by this aregument, if you played sunshine of your love enough (any song), you will have it down by muscle memory, unless you are improvising or something, and it would be mindless. Sadly, I've never seen someone doing a cover of an eric clapton/Jimmy Page/Hendrix/etc. song being called mindless.


I agree, you will have it down to muscle memory..... and your right it could be played with very little or no emotion. The original solos in this case was conceived artistically, with emotion, so as a player youll hopefully be inspired by that and continue to play it with emotion. it is possible though, as you suggest to just play it by memory. I've seen many bar bands play songs that they are just sick of ..... and play them with very little emotion. ****, I've done it myself LOL. I mean after playing sweet home alabama 3 nights a week for 2 or 3 years...... sometimes you just dont care.
shred is gaudy music
#105
Though if you play an emotion full solo from muscle memory, the listener will still probably find the emotion that was initilly in it. And I'm almost only talking about emotion from the perspective of the listener--they are the people that complain about the emotion in it, and the experience the emotion they feel in it, not what the player or composer feels.
#106
just for all noobs wit no math skil:

a ran with all 16th notes at...

30bpm = 2nps
60bpm = 4nps
90bpm = 6nps
120bpm = 8nps
150bpm = 10nps
180bpm = 12nps
210bpm = 14nps

And for that idiot that said 20nps was shred

300bpm = 20nps

(btw, 300 bpm is impossible (unless you are rusty cooley))
#109
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
You should just go away now, shred can be emotive; it all depends on the listener.

To be honest for me "shred" starts at about 11-12 notes per second but it doesn't start becoming technically impressive until at least 13-14 nps. However like most people have said, shred on it's own doesn't mean anything, you've got to have some sort of meaning to it or it's just showing off.



I agree, listen too concerto by cacophony!
Becker has incredible emotion in his sweeping!!!!!
hands down the best shred/soulful guitarist
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=VKE6rsxy9Zo
#110
Quote by shreddhed
just for all noobs wit no math skil:

a ran with all 16th notes at...

30bpm = 2nps
60bpm = 4nps
90bpm = 6nps
120bpm = 8nps
150bpm = 10nps
180bpm = 12nps
210bpm = 14nps

And for that idiot that said 20nps was shred

300bpm = 20nps

(btw, 300 bpm is impossible (unless you are rusty cooley))


You know not of The Berzerker.
Quote by dudetheman
So what? I wasted like 5 minutes watching DaddyTwoFoot's avatar.


Metalheads are the worst thing that ever happened to metal.
#112
Quote by Fletcher092
why play with speed when you can play with soul and feeling??


Im not sure why anyone would think that those concepts are mutually exclusive.

Why not play how you want to?
shred is gaudy music
#113
Quote by Fletcher092
why play with speed when you can play with soul and feeling??


What does the speed at which you play have to do with "feeling" (which isn't an inherent property of music)?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#114
Personally, to me...

If it isn't:
a) Unnecessarily fast

and

b) Entirely pointless


...then it isn't shred.
#115
Quote by Fletcher092
why play with speed when you can play with soul and feeling??


Give me a break, it's not like they're two separate schools of music. By your logic, Kurt Cobain is the most soulful, emotive guitarist to ever live.
#116
^Watch out! Some people think that!

Quote by RockDJ
Personally, to me...

If it isn't:
a) Unnecessarily fast

and

b) Entirely pointless


...then it isn't shred.
You obviously know nothing about shred music. Sure, there are some stinkers in the Genre, but satch and Vai have some beautiful songs (this coming from a girl) that contain very fast passages. There is plenty of 80s instrumental, guitar rock (ie Shred) with fast, yet emotive soloing.
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Mar 16, 2008,
#117
Quote by bangoodcharlote
^Watch out! Some people think that!

You obviously know nothing about shred music. Sure, there are some stinkers in the Genre, but satch and Vai have some beautiful songs (this coming from a girl) that contain very fast passages. There is plenty of 80s instrumental, guitar rock (ie Shred) with fast, yet emotive soloing.


cheeze does permeate the genre though. Its reasonable that some people would be able to see that glaring aspect of shred. When an entire movement (late 80s shred) uses the same guitars, has the same hairstyles, and play practically the same sweep arpeggio licks, with practically the same style....... that says something. (BTW I dont include Vai or Satriani in that... they both have their own original style).
That being said, amidst all the cheeze and tastelessness, there is some music in the genre worth checking out. And really its all a matter of opinion. Some people love cheeze.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 16, 2008,
#118
Quote by bangoodcharlote
^Watch out! Some people think that!

You obviously know nothing about shred music. Sure, there are some stinkers in the Genre, but satch and Vai have some beautiful songs (this coming from a girl) that contain very fast passages. There is plenty of 80s instrumental, guitar rock (ie Shred) with fast, yet emotive soloing.

Call it whatever you want, but I prefer efficiency in my music.