#1
Whats the difference between and ionian from a dorian or a phrygian scale?
is it the same difference that a major, minor, and chromatic scale would have?
#2
They all have a different flavor, so to speak. The only real way to describe them is "Ionian sounds like Ionian, and Phrygian sounds like Phrygian".

Try for yourself. Hit an E Minor chord, and play up and down E Phrygian, then do the same thing and play up E Dorian. Immense difference.
#3
Despite containing the same notes, C Ionian and E Phrygian are very different in sound and application. For instance, over a C F C G progression, C Ionian would be appropriate while E Phrygian would not. Conversely, Em F G would use E Phrygian rather than C Ionian. The progression and backing chords determine the mode, not the position on the neck as many believe.


Edit: Cowboy is talking about parallel modes, modes that start on the same note but contain different notes after that, as E Dorian and E Phrygian are. I am talking about relative modes, as many people get confused as to why C Ionian and D Dorian are different if they contain the same notes. The difference between parallel modes is more obvious, as E Dorian, E F# G A B C# D, and E Phrygian, E F G A B C D, is obvious; Dorian doesn't have an F and Phrygian doesn't have an F#.
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Mar 1, 2008,
#6
Quote by Psychedelico
Also, Ionian = major scale. Aeolian = minor scale


True, but: Major scale =/= Ionian, and Minor scale =/= Aeolian.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#8
Quote by Psychedelico
Also, Ionian = major scale. Aeolian = minor scale


I like to think of it as Ionian being THE major scale and Aeolian being THE natural minor, as opposed to A major scale and A minor.

All scales are either minor or major, and thinking of it this way helped me so maybe it'll help someone else xD
#9
Physically, the modes are different in the notes that you play. Musically the notes are different to give different feelings to a song.

The relative minors and majors are in fact the same notes. However if you play an Em scale (which is the same as Gmaj) you will want to make your phrasing compliment Em rather than Gmaj. Learn where your roots are and what notes give the feelings you want to express. The scale is your outline, the notes you choose are your colors.
#10
The relative minors and majors are in fact the same notes. However if you play an Em scale (which is the same as Gmaj) you will want to make your phrasing compliment Em rather than Gmaj.


They are not the same, and the notes you choose are irrelevant. The progression will determine the mode.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#11
Quote by Archeo Avis
True, but: Major scale =/= Ionian, and Minor scale =/= Aeolian.
Now we're getting into different modes, pun intended, of thought. I think it's safer to just add something like Theoretically Natural Minor =/= Aeolian. Because we can see all modes as derivative of the major scale, but we can also see modes as scales that happen to share the same notes with some other scales.
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#12
Quote by Archeo Avis
They are not the same, and the notes you choose are irrelevant. The progression will determine the mode.


how are they not the same notes? And how does note selection not detemine how you want the song to feel? Don't think of modes as a box you're trapped in when playing. Certain notes are added and taken away in the modes, yes, but that doesn't always mean you can't play 'outside the box'. Chromatics anyone?
Last edited by Krusader187 at Mar 2, 2008,
#13
Quote by Krusader187
how are they not the same notes? And how does note selection not detemine how you want the song to feel? Don't think of modes as a box you're trapped in when playing. Certain notes are added and taken away in the modes, yes, but that doesn't always mean you can't play 'outside the box'. Chromatics anyone?


Are you...are you actually lecturing me about how modes are not box shapes?

You said that they are the same, and they're not. They have the same notes, but they have completely different intervals and are used in completely different situations. Your phrasing is irrelevant. You can emphasize that E all you want, but if the progression is in G major, you're playing G major.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Mar 2, 2008,
#14
Quote by Archeo Avis
Are you...are you actually lecturing me about how modes are not box shapes? I'll refrain from pointing out how absolutely ridiculous that is.


you wanna answer my question?
#16
Quote by Archeo Avis
You can emphasize that E all you want, but if the progression is in G major, you're playing G major.
Moreover, emphasizing that E over a G major progression will likely sound weird and awkward.
#17
Quote by Archeo Avis
Are you...are you actually lecturing me about how modes are not box shapes?
Damnit Archeo Avis! Free yourself from the box!
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#18
I think we're just using different logic about the idea of the key, also I was drunk when I wrote it :P.

Of course you don't emphasize E in a Gmaj progression. You emphasize G. I was simply saying that the notes of Gmaj are the same as Em and you told me I was wrong.

I still feel like note selection isn't irrelevant though. I wouldn't play the same licks in Em as in Gmaj.
#19
Quote by Krusader187
I wouldn't play the same licks in Em as in Gmaj.
That's because you are trying to play licks that resolve to E in E minor and G in G major. Try playing an E blues lick (no Bbs!) but resolve it to G; it will sound fine.
#20
Quote by bangoodcharlote
That's because you are trying to play licks that resolve to E in E minor and G in G major. Try playing an E blues lick (no Bbs!) but resolve it to G; it will sound fine.


you can play the blues note still, sometimes i pass through it and it sounds fine. But it sounds better when i pass through a higher pitched blues note >.>, even though theoretically it shouldn't matter..
#21
^Actually, my teacher and I decided that playing odd notes up high will cause less of a clash. Since they are so much higher than the rest of the music, your ear hears them separately rather than together.

You can still play that Bb, but it won't be modal anymore.
#22
Quote by bangoodcharlote
^Actually, my teacher and I decided that playing odd notes up high will cause less of a clash. Since they are so much higher than the rest of the music, your ear hears them separately rather than together.


That's why you never really wanna play a major seventh chord with the seventh on the bottom. It would cause tons of dissonance. Also, that's why they call it a #11, not a #4. Calling it a #11 implies that the note should be up above in another octave, so as to avoid having it a half-step away from the fifth.
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