#1
When you're about to make a post on a thread, that makes a perfectly valid point to do with the subject of the thread, and you spend time getting your facts straight, just to find that someone has just closed the thread for some silly reason.

Anyhow, In the 'Why don't we send our garbage into space?' thread, I thought I'd just like to say;

'What we need is the space elevator!
Sounds far fetched I know, but it's apparently theoreticaly possible to have a satelite in fixed orbit with a pully on it that has a loop of seriously strong cable (which hasn't I might add, actualy been invented yet) that goes all the way down to the earth's surface.
Put a box with doors on each end of the cable and you have a space elevator.
Once it's in place, we can mine asteroids for minerals and metals, bring them to the elevator, place them in a box and send 'em down to the surface. Meanwhile, the box on the other end of the cable is filled with waste products and is counterbalanced with the mined materials box. As the mined materials box comes down, the waste products box goes up at no fuel cost whatsoever. Once the waste products box reaches the satelite (well, more like a space station really) it is placed inside a container and gently pushed towards the sun. Because there is no friction in space, that's all it'll need to actualy get it to hit the sun.
This sorts out jhardcore's problem of the earth losing matter because waste products are replaced with mined materials from asteroids.
The same thing can also be used to transport people, parts of spaceships (to be constructed in space) and all manner of things, at practicaly no cost in fuel once the thing is set up.'

But someone closed the thread just before I could post it, so I can't now.
#2
Why do you guys keep forgetting gravity? And weather?
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Last edited by Kensai at Mar 3, 2008,
#3
Quote by Kensai
Why do you guys keep forgetting gravity?

He's a christian, and christians don't believe in gravity.
#4
Quote by Kensai
Why do you guys keep forgetting gravity? And weather?

Hey, it's just an interesting theory that I read about so don't blame the messenger.
Apparently the gravity can be negated if you get the satelite orbiting far enough away from the Earth. (don't ask me, I don't know all the theory and I'm no scientist) As for the weather, just build it in a sunny place that hardly gets any wind.
EDIT; Here, read it for yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator
Quote by maccas666
He's a christian, and christians don't believe in gravity.

Cheeky git, I'm as atheist as you can get!
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Mar 3, 2008,
#5
What I have even more is when you plan an amazingly well though out post, only to find it's the last on the page and you post is lost to comments like "Pwned" and "Lol"
#6
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Cheeky git, I'm as atheist as you can get!

Haha, it's a quote man.
#8
The TS is 10 years old. Just burn the damn garbage and screw the Greenhouse gases, no one cares apart from far-leftist flower-bummers.
#9
Quote by SlackerBabbath
When you're about to make a post on a thread, that makes a perfectly valid point to do with the subject of the thread, and you spend time getting your facts straight, just to find that someone has just closed the thread for some silly reason.

Anyhow, In the 'Why don't we send our garbage into space?' thread, I thought I'd just like to say;

'What we need is the space elevator!
Sounds far fetched I know, but it's apparently theoreticaly possible to have a satelite in fixed orbit with a pully on it that has a loop of seriously strong cable (which hasn't I might add, actualy been invented yet) that goes all the way down to the earth's surface.
Put a box with doors on each end of the cable and you have a space elevator.
Once it's in place, we can mine asteroids for minerals and metals, bring them to the elevator, place them in a box and send 'em down to the surface. Meanwhile, the box on the other end of the cable is filled with waste products and is counterbalanced with the mined materials box. As the mined materials box comes down, the waste products box goes up at no fuel cost whatsoever. Once the waste products box reaches the satelite (well, more like a space station really) it is placed inside a container and gently pushed towards the sun. Because there is no friction in space, that's all it'll need to actualy get it to hit the sun.
This sorts out jhardcore's problem of the earth losing matter because waste products are replaced with mined materials from asteroids.
The same thing can also be used to transport people, parts of spaceships (to be constructed in space) and all manner of things, at practicaly no cost in fuel once the thing is set up.'

But someone closed the thread just before I could post it, so I can't now.



Worst, for many reasons. Go do some basic physics (friction, satellites and forces of equilibrium specifically).
#10
Quote by Moggan13
The TS is 10 years old.

The TS is 23 years older than you kid.
Quote by chiselite
Worst, for many reasons. Go do some basic physics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator
As I said earlier, I don't claim to be any kind of scientist, but the guys who came up with the idea are. Read about it for yourself.
#11
Quote by SlackerBabbath
The TS is 23 years older than you kid.


Sorry dad...
#12
Quote by SlackerBabbath
The TS is 23 years older than you kid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_elevator
As I said earlier, I don't claim to be any kind of scientist, but the guys who came up with the idea are. Read about it for yourself.


Bah, I didn't mean to give you **** but when I look at that concept, it just don't seem practical.

Balance is very integral, and initialising the mass change seems really difficult. Shouldn't the initial anchoring be hell hard because the satellite has all this extra and random mass which will affect the GSO?

Plus, what about weather? Air circulation make the elevator become unstable?

What about when the minerals come down? Won't it come down at a very high speed due the gravity?
#16
The earth is orbited by tons of space crap and bits of junk astronauts left up there, you're cable would be covered in junk in no time.

Plus, only a small amount of thrust is required to move any object in space, because there is no gravity. If you start pulling on that thing by a massive freakin cable you're going to pull it down, not pull yourself up.

Stuff has no weight in a vacuum, so no matter how heavy your satellite, It doesn't matter.

Unless there's some factor I haven't condidered or am not aware of.
#17
Quote by chiselite
Bah, I didn't mean to give you **** but when I look at that concept, it just don't seem practical.

That's OK bud, I thought the exact same thing until I read up on it.
Like I say, I'm no scientist, I take an interest in science but my forte is mainly Paleontology, and the study of evolution, so this is way out of my field, but reading about it, it does all kinda make some sort of sense.
Quote by chiselite

Balance is very integral, and initialising the mass change seems really difficult. Shouldn't the initial anchoring be hell hard because the satellite has all this extra and random mass which will affect the GSO?

Plus, what about weather? Air circulation make the elevator become unstable?

What about when the minerals come down? Won't it come down at a very high speed due the gravity?

I honestly don't know, but Wiki says;
Quote by Wiki

Angular momentum, speed and cable lean.

The horizontal speed of each part of the cable increases with altitude, proportional to distance from the center of the Earth, reaching orbital velocity at geosynchronous orbit. Therefore as a payload is lifted up a space elevator, it needs to gain not only altitude but angular momentum (horizontal speed) as well.

This angular momentum is taken from the Earth's own rotation. As the climber ascends it is initially moving slightly more slowly than the cable that it moves onto (Coriolis effect) and thus the climber "drags" on the cable, carrying the cable with it very slightly to the west (and necessarily pulling the counterweight slightly to the west, shown as an offset of the counterweight in the diagram to right, slightly changing the motion of the counterweight). At a 200 km/h climb speed this generates a 1 degree lean on the lower portion of the cable. The horizontal component of the tension in the non-vertical cable applies a sideways pull on the payload, accelerating it eastward (see diagram) and this is the source of the speed that the climber needs. Conversely, the cable pulls westward on Earth's surface, insignificantly slowing the Earth, from Newton's 3rd law.

Meanwhile, the overall effect of the centrifugal force acting on the cable causes it to constantly try to return to the energetically favourable vertical orientation, so after an object has been lifted on the cable the counterweight will swing back towards the vertical like an inverted pendulum. Provided that the Space Elevator is designed so that the center of mass always stays above geosynchronous orbit[33] for the maximum climb speed of the climbers, the elevator cannot fall over. Lift and descent operations must be carefully planned so as to keep the pendulum-like motion of the counterweight around the tether point under control.

By the time the payload has reached GEO the angular momentum (horizontal speed) is enough that the payload is in orbit.

The opposite process would occur for payloads descending the elevator, tilting the cable eastwards and insignificantly increasing Earth's rotation speed.

[edit] Launching into outer space

The velocities that might be attained at the end of Pearson's 144,000 km cable can be determined. The tangential velocity is 10.93 kilometers per second which is more than enough to escape Earth's gravitational field and send probes as far out as Saturn. If an object were allowed to slide freely along the upper part of the tower, a velocity high enough to escape the solar system entirely would be attained. This is accomplished by trading off overall angular momentum of the tower for velocity of the launched object, in much the same way one snaps a towel or throws a lacrosse ball. After such an operation a cable would be left with less angular momentum than required to keep its geostationary position. The rotation of the Earth would then pull on the cable increasing its angular velocity, leaving the cable swinging backwards and forwards about its starting point.

I don't suppose controling the speed would be as simple as fixing breaks to the pully would it?
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Mar 3, 2008,
#21
Quote by freedoms_stain
I haven't read the article, but what you say sounds more like "crashed" than landed.

And what is a landing other than a controled crash?
Like I said, the craft wasn't designed to land on the asteroid but the guys who were in charge of it thought they'd give it a go anyway, and they succeded too without completely obliterating the craft, infact, on the contrary, they managed to land it quite softly.
#22
After reading the second wall of text, the concept wouldn't be too bad but the conditions set in theory are ideal. Weather, space junk, energy efficiency and even more stuff needs to be taken into account.

I reckon a machine which can break stuff down would be easier to make and conceptualise.
#23
Quote by chiselite
After reading the second wall of text, the concept wouldn't be too bad but the conditions set in theory are ideal. Weather, space junk, energy efficiency and even more stuff needs to be taken into account.

Oh I agree, but after all, the same thing (or something similar) was probably said about a lot of modern day technology that we take for granted today.
At one point, it was thought to be impossible to attain enough lift to escape the earths gravity and atmosphere without a massive amount of rockets, until SpaceShipOne, the craft that won the X-prize, proved differently.
There's some clever folks out there who, with a little application, could probably come up with ways around these problems.
#24
I do hope most people realise that once this is feasible, teleportation or light speed travel will have probably been invented, so that would effectively make this idea useless.
Quote by iHurricaneGTR

Goats are like mushrooms.
When you shoot a duck,
I'm afraid of toasters.

Quote by Avedas
South Korea should have their Starcraft league members double as military strategists.
#26
Quote by Demonbreed
I do hope most people realise that once this is feasible, teleportation or light speed travel will have probably been invented, so that would effectively make this idea useless.

Maybe, but if we don't develop the idea just because someone said 'I can't be bothered because it'll take too long.' just think of all the spinoff technology that we'll be missing out on.
#27
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Maybe, but if we don't develop the idea just because someone said 'I can't be bothered because it'll take too long.' just think of all the spinoff technology that we'll be missing out on.


Spin-off technology we'll be missing out on, that no one really misses because a large percentage is completely useless and a waste of taxes and taxpayers money.

Spin-off technology is like those crappy "Contemporary Super Deluxe Cupoholder Max!" items you see, with sun damage because no one will buy it...
Quote by iHurricaneGTR

Goats are like mushrooms.
When you shoot a duck,
I'm afraid of toasters.

Quote by Avedas
South Korea should have their Starcraft league members double as military strategists.
#28
Quote by Demonbreed
Spin-off technology we'll be missing out on, that no one really misses because a large percentage is completely useless and a waste of taxes and taxpayers money.

Spin-off technology is like those crappy "Contemporary Super Deluxe Cupoholder Max!" items you see, with sun damage because no one will buy it...

On the contrary, the woven carbon nano tubes that are being developed for the space elevator cable could actualy make a material stronger than kevlar. They could also be used in suspension bridges in place of steel wire. They would be lighter, wouldn't rust, and would be cheaper to produce.
D'yer hear that? 'Cheaper' so everyone in Yorkshire should be right behind it.
A lot of the tech we use today is spin off tech from weapons development in WW2.
#29
Quote by cptcomet
How do you mine asterioids? You can't just land on them like in Armageddon!


Well then how did they film it then?

Got you there, eh smart guy!

Quote by GLP_Arclite
Pooping is well good though, to be fair.


I've got a handle on the fiction.

I'm losing my grip, 'cos I'm losing my fingers.