#1
Urgent help please.
I'm stuck on my essay.

I need to explain how the Treaty of Versailles affected the Breakdown of the "traditional order" of Germany. I have no ideas on how it did affect the breakdown. Please I urgently need your help. I just need 2 points at the moment.

- Thanks.
sincewhen??

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#2
Im doing the exact same type of essay, we aren't in the same history are we?

They owed 6600 million, lost territory including their colonies. only allowed 100,000 soldiers, airforce to be disbanded, 50,000 sailors and 6 ships, and they printed hell money to pay it off so it was inflation like crazy..
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#4
Germany was forced to take full responsibility of the war and to pay for the full cost of the war. This forced Germany into a huge economic depression, which the Nazi party brought them out of, until Hitler turned his back on the treaty about a year and a half before Poland was invaded.
In short, Germany got f*cked for 15 years after the war.

EDIT: Srsly, just wiki.
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Last edited by dann_blood at Mar 5, 2008,
#5
Quote by dann_blood
Germany was forced to take full responsibility of the war and to pay for the full cost of the war. This forced Germany into a huge economic depression, which the Nazi party brought them out of, until Hitler turned his back on the treaty about a year and a half before Poland was invaded.
In short, Germany got f*cked for 15 years after the war.


well, even more so, because after hitler came the division of germany, and the opression of half it's peoples by soviet occupation, not to mention the fact that it couldn't even function as a state without massive allied support, only after the fall of the berlin wall was some level of normality achieved
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#6
this reminds me of when i was duing GCSE History, i got a fat F (for fail) on it.
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because there is also a gibson squire, and they don't want to get them confused
#7
Quote by Carswell98
well, even more so, because after hitler came the division of germany, and the opression of half it's peoples by soviet occupation, not to mention the fact that it couldn't even function as a state without massive allied support, only after the fall of the berlin wall was some level of normality achieved


That's more a result of the spread of Communism during the 1950's. Of course, the Soviet's occupation of the East and the US's occupation of the west was definetly a result of WWII, which was a result of the Versailles treaty, but I look at it as more of a flow on effect.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
#8
Quote by dann_blood
That's more a result of the spread of Communism during the 1950's. Of course, the Soviet's occupation of the East and the US's occupation of the west was definetly a result of WWII, which was a result of the Versailles treaty, but I look at it as more of a flow on effect.


no, I wouldn't say so, Germany is a highly industrialized nation, I'm willing to bet that they would have been able to stave off the soviets were it not for Versailles and subsequently WWII.
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#9
Right now for one out of two points I have.

The treaty did affect the breakdown on the traditional order because when the treaty of versailles was enforced everything started falling apart. Germany owed 6600 million and they printed loads of money to pay it off so inflation was brought in....so the government fell.

Can I add anything more to that?
sincewhen??

Quote by Mannypedraza
Today, me and my gf went to the movies. During, i put my hand down her shorts.
I keep smelling my hand as of now....anything wrong with me?
teh pronz
#10
Quote by sincewhen??
Right now for one out of two points I have.

The treaty did affect the breakdown on the traditional order because when the treaty of versailles was enforced everything started falling apart. Germany owed 6600 million and they printed loads of money to pay it off so inflation was brought in....so the government fell.

Can I add anything more to that?


they didn't print money to pay the debt, they printed it to counteract inflation, which did more harm than good
Last.Fm

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qft...



Jeremy Clarkson is a knob.
#11
Quote by Carswell98
they didn't print money to pay the debt, they printed it to counteract inflation, which did more harm than good


ah yes. thanks. also I started my 2nd point but I dont have much thought into it, pretty stumped.

The treaty did affect the breakdown on the traditional order because the right and the left wing were always alive, they have been created before the Treaty, the reason why they began to attack the Republic was because of the Treaty of Versailles. They were outraged at its restrictions and suffering so the Kaiser followers and the Communists decided to rise up and try to retrieve Germany.
sincewhen??

Quote by Mannypedraza
Today, me and my gf went to the movies. During, i put my hand down her shorts.
I keep smelling my hand as of now....anything wrong with me?
teh pronz
#12
Quote by Carswell98
no, I wouldn't say so, Germany is a highly industrialized nation, I'm willing to bet that they would have been able to stave off the soviets were it not for Versailles and subsequently WWII.


Germany was the second most industralistic country in the world before Versailles (behind the US). As a result of Versailles, Germany lost a substantial portion of its Industrial sector to the Allies.
But, during the Nazi parties (I prefer Third Reich, it sounds cooler ) run in power, they redeveloped their forces to be the most efficient in the world. Hitler managed to stimulate every man, woman and child into working for "the greater good", and Germany became the most industrialised country in the world, not to mention the most effective in almost every way.
Furthermore, the Germans REALLY pissed off the Russians during WWII, when the Russians got to Berlin Germany they were very malicious in their actions.
The treaty of Versailles was the result of WWII, but it is a bit of a stretch to say that it was the direct cause of the division of Germany post-WWII.

And Sincewhen??, there is a summary of the treaty in that wiki link, use that info too.

EDIT: This whole section.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
Last edited by dann_blood at Mar 5, 2008,
#13
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that the treaty *didn't* significantly affect the breakdown of traditional order, but that in fact the process was already set in motion. The abdication of the kaiser, the Spartican revolt, these were the real signs of the breakdown of traditional order, and they happened long before the treaty was signed. Versailles was in fact, by traditional standards, a very lenient treaty. £6600 million reparations? Using the same system as used in the Versailles treaty of 1871, germany would have been required to pay £132million (which is what the french initially put on the table) . Germany was not occupied completely, and was forced to give up only tiny amounts of territory (and Alsace-Lorraine had been switching hands since the medival period anyway).

The other aspects of the 'breakdown of traditional order' can be put down to sheer stupidity on the part of the Weimar government. Printing money just puts more paper in circulation, and doesn't affect the amount of capital you have, so of course it looses value. And being unable to deal with a coup in the capital is *going* to make people less willing to co-operate with the government, hence more socialist revolts, hence a drop in productivity in the Ruhr, hence the french and Belgians occupy it to try and extract the money they think they're owed.
#14
you had woodrow wilsons fourteen point's

I remember the terms of the treaty using the word: GARGLe

Guilt war
Army reduced
Reparations
Germany accepts full responsibility
League of nations set up


Hope it helps!!
#16
Quote by tb_1337
If I was to blame anyone, it would be the black hand gang, who assassinated archduke franz ferdinand


Blame anyone for what? The Treaty of Versaille? Or the start of the war?
#17
well, the start basically.

The immediate cause of the war was the June 28, 1914 assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, by Gavrilo Princip, a Bosnian Serb citizen of Austria-Hungary. The retaliation by Austria-Hungary against Serbia activated a series of alliances that set off a chain reaction of war declarations. Within a month, much of Europe was in a state of open warfare.
#18
Quote by dann_blood
Germany was the second most industralistic country in the world before Versailles (behind the US). As a result of Versailles, Germany lost a substantial portion of its Industrial sector to the Allies.
But, during the Nazi parties (I prefer Third Reich, it sounds cooler ) run in power, they redeveloped their forces to be the most efficient in the world. Hitler managed to stimulate every man, woman and child into working for "the greater good", and Germany became the most industrialised country in the world, not to mention the most effective in almost every way.
Furthermore, the Germans REALLY pissed off the Russians during WWII, when the Russians got to Berlin Germany they were very malicious in their actions.
The treaty of Versailles was the result of WWII, but it is a bit of a stretch to say that it was the direct cause of the division of Germany post-WWII.

And Sincewhen??, there is a summary of the treaty in that wiki link, use that info too.

EDIT: This whole section.


1st sentance = wrong, the war ruined German economics, and Versailles was so very nearly the finishing blow. Also, Versailles is the result of WW1.

Also mad_BOB is, nearly right, it DID significantly affect the breakdown of order, however the groundworks were already there.

Also it was £6.7 billion.

Versailles was very harsh as opposed to lenient. The reparations were Far exceeding the amount that should have been laid down. However, Georges Clemenceu wanted to cripple Germany, and Lloyd George needed to stay in the prime ministers chair. The british public wanted blood. german blood, for the millions of lives lost.

oh and o the thread starter if you drastically need help, PM me. I LOVE history, especially 1910 - 1970
#19
Quote by tb_1337
well, the start basically.

The immediate cause of the war was the June 28, 1914 assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, by Gavrilo Princip, a Bosnian Serb citizen of Austria-Hungary. The retaliation by Austria-Hungary against Serbia activated a series of alliances that set off a chain reaction of war declarations. Within a month, much of Europe was in a state of open warfare.


GCSE HIstory much?

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#20
Ask Hitler.
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#23
Quote by sincewhen??
Urgent help please.
I'm stuck on my essay.

I need to explain how the Treaty of Versailles affected the Breakdown of the "traditional order" of Germany. I have no ideas on how it did affect the breakdown. Please I urgently need your help. I just need 2 points at the moment.

- Thanks.



If the traditional order refers to the old aristocracy, the army, and the political system, you shall need to explain that before the ToV, the allies would not negotiate with Germany unless Kaiser Wilhelm II abdicated. This was the initial signal that Germany would experience a transition from monarchy to whatever occurred next. Then, you should explain the economic implications of the Treaty and how they affected the political process. There emerged a left wing threat in the face of the Spartacists (Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg). They opposed the establishment of a National Assembly (as centre left SPD party wanted) and threatened revolution. This was a challenge to the traditional order. That said, I would then really get into the establishment of the National Assembly, which was dominated by the centre-left party, the SPD. Additionally, a new constitution saw a system of checks and balances, and, of course, proportional representation, both of which undermined the traditional order. A reaction to this, on behalf of the supporters of the traditional order was the Kapp Putsch of March 1920.


That is the angle I would take. The point is that the traditional order in Germany was greatly changed because a Western-influenced liberal democracy followed after the ToV. Of course, there were limits in that the right wing could still participate in parliamentary party politics, and they had use of the Freikorps, a band of ex-soldiers who were a violent threat to revolutionary leftists- also, through the President Ebert- General Groner Pact, the government relied on the ARMY (a traditional order) to crush leftist threats, so the traditional order still had great influence.


I'm sure I'm missing a few things, but that is the general idea, and I got an A (281/300) for my History 'AS' exam, so don't worry about my competence.

That's the line I would follow in this type of essay anyway. I wouldn't dwell on Versailles for too long, but make sure you relate EVERYTHING you write to the Treaty. If I'm wrong, well, I can't help having an opinion that differs from the examiners or your teacher, but my answer seems to focus on the 'traditional order'...


Forgot to mention the fact that the judiciary and civil service didn't change, so the old order was dominant there as well. By the way, you should question how much of a breakdown there was and how far the ToV caused it.


I would also like to reiterate just how IMPORTANT the change from monarchy (e.g. King, aristocracy) to democracy was in the breakdown. It is a massive change!
Last edited by ss311 at Mar 10, 2008,
#25
Quote by tb_1337
in my opinion, the treaty was too harsh on germany. the triple entente were asking for trouble


i think that's probably fair, BUT it was nothing compared to what could of been laid down had Clemenceu had his say
#27
Quote by ss311
If the traditional order refers to the old aristocracy, the army, and the political system, you shall need to explain that before the ToV, the allies would not negotiate with Germany unless Kaiser Wilhelm II abdicated. This was the initial signal that Germany would experience a transition from monarchy to whatever occurred next. Then, you should explain the economic implications of the Treaty and how they affected the political process. There emerged a left wing threat in the face of the Spartacists (Karl Liebknecht and Rosa Luxemburg). They opposed the establishment of a National Assembly (as centre left SPD party wanted) and threatened revolution. This was a challenge to the traditional order. That said, I would then really get into the establishment of the National Assembly, which was dominated by the centre-left party, the SPD. Additionally, a new constitution saw a system of checks and balances, and, of course, proportional representation, both of which undermined the traditional order. A reaction to this, on behalf of the supporters of the traditional order was the Kapp Putsch of March 1920.


That is the angle I would take. The point is that the traditional order in Germany was greatly changed because a Western-influenced liberal democracy followed after the ToV. Of course, there were limits in that the right wing could still participate in parliamentary party politics, and they had use of the Freikorps, a band of ex-soldiers who were a violent threat to revolutionary leftists- also, through the President Ebert- General Groner Pact, the government relied on the ARMY (a traditional order) to crush leftist threats, so the traditional order still had great influence.


I'm sure I'm missing a few things, but that is the general idea, and I got an A (281/300) for my History 'AS' exam, so don't worry about my competence.

That's the line I would follow in this type of essay anyway. I wouldn't dwell on Versailles for too long, but make sure you relate EVERYTHING you write to the Treaty. If I'm wrong, well, I can't help having an opinion that differs from the examiners or your teacher, but my answer seems to focus on the 'traditional order'...


Forgot to mention the fact that the judiciary and civil service didn't change, so the old order was dominant there as well. By the way, you should question how much of a breakdown there was and how far the ToV caused it.


I would also like to reiterate just how IMPORTANT the change from monarchy (e.g. King, aristocracy) to democracy was in the breakdown. It is a massive change!



Finally, someone who's actually answered the question rather than focusing on the economic aspects.
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#29
Quote by tb_1337
i think that wilson's 14 pionts were not really that affective


no but they SHOULD have been. The LoN, could have quite easily stopped the Nazi's in the infancy of their rule, but as America declined to get invlolved and Europe was in no position to resist, we got WW2
#30
Anyway, let us know how you do and feel free to contact me if you ever need any more help with the unit on Germany in from 1917 to 1945.
#31
Quote by sincewhen??
Urgent help please.
I'm stuck on my essay.

I need to explain how the Treaty of Versailles affected the Breakdown of the "traditional order" of Germany. I have no ideas on how it did affect the breakdown. Please I urgently need your help. I just need 2 points at the moment.

- Thanks.


Are you interested in anything else besides what you uncovered on your own, after having googled "Treaty of Versailles"?
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#32
Quote by tb_1337
well, the start basically.

The immediate cause of the war was the June 28, 1914 assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, heir to the Austro-Hungarian throne, by Gavrilo Princip, a Bosnian Serb citizen of Austria-Hungary. The retaliation by Austria-Hungary against Serbia activated a series of alliances that set off a chain reaction of war declarations. Within a month, much of Europe was in a state of open warfare.


Ok... but sorta irrelevant for the thread..
#33
Quote by Atomic_Assault
no but they SHOULD have been. The LoN, could have quite easily stopped the Nazi's in the infancy of their rule, but as America declined to get invlolved and Europe was in no position to resist, we got WW2



exactly. And am I right in thinking that it was wison's idea to set up the LoN in the first place?