#1
I got some nice commentary on my loose jam - Whammy Madness in Em - even though it has some serious warts (ancient 4-track casette recording - ridiculous drum track - and sadly... lost master. )

The response was good enough to get me off my ass to start trying to recreate the beast using my semi-modern gear - namely - using Acid4.0 rather than my old Yamaha casette.

At this point, I really would just like some input as to how the project sounds so far - and any helpful suggestions you might have. I had to ditch work just to get this much time - so I don't know when I'll get a chance to tend to this thread - but I promise to give sincere C4C to anyone who cares to help me out with my little project.

The track is in my profile - and it's the "Whammy Madness in Em project" file. If interested, compare and contrast with the original - which has same name sans "project".


Below are my detailed thoughts on this Acid project so far. Don't want to lose you with my ramblings... so feel free to just listen and speak up. But the additional commentary might help you understand what I'm after

Thanks in advance!

----------------------------------------


I really haven't got much recording experience (yeah... it shows)

Here are my thoughts so far...

. IT ISN'T FINISHED! About 1-minute in, the original WAV kicks in - with the new drum and bass parts clamoring all over atop them. Like I said - just threw it up for a critique for now.

. drum part could use some work. I've used some Mick Fleetwood parts - and some generic Acid parts. But I'm really looking forward to doing this with a real drummer. Part of my goal here is to "relearn" this improv so I can play it well with a real drummer. I do believe the drums are far better than the original - if for no other reason - it changes when the guitar and bass change.

. I'm not hating the bass. But - I got mixed response on the bass from the original and tried to play it close to the original. I don't really have plans to change it much - but I'm open for suggestions.

. Guitar - really only recreated a single verse/chorus so far. I didn't want to go to the end without getting a little input from others first. You can tell that I patched the guitar together, mostly in 4-measure chunks and some transitions are not smooth enough. I will record some complete takes eventually. But for now - I'm doing some "archaeology" here, dissecting my little improv lick by lick. It's fun - I've NEVER done this and I've been playing FOREVER. I don't love every lick in the original - and I intend to blast out some new improv parts - but I think this one had enough fun licks to go to the trouble to break it down - some of you guys convinced me it does.

Mostly - I'm interested in thoughts on how the guitar sounds. Some more specific thoughts on the guitar parts.

It's all my strat. I also have a Charvel with a Jackson HB and a Floyd Rose copy on it that's pretty good for this sort of thing I suppose. But I much prefer my strat - and didn't own the Charvel when I recorded the song. Should I try the Charvel?

This was through my new Fender Champ, with a RAT into a DOD. I might give in and go with my Marshall JCM900 1/12 combo. I wanted a little more gain - but the little Champ gets a little too much raspyness if I give it too much. I was also considering trying my vintage Big Muff PI.

General tone questions...

Is the Champ too raspy?

Have I lost too much of the high-gain feel of the original?

If so - should I give the Champ more - or just go with the Marshall?

RAT? Big Muff? I even have a real live Dallas Arbiter Fuzz Face - but I always was more of a Big Muff kinda guy... that said - those who know the JCM900 know it puts out serious filth all by itself.

I purposely recorded some with the bridge PU and some with the middle - which is a SD Hot Rails. It should be fairly easy to hear which is which. Which one is the best tone for the thing? The bright single coil bridge PU or the humbucker in the middle?

...actually - I'm likely to start "verses" with differenct PU selections anyway to mix it up. This stage is mostly to get myself handy with the Acid recording process - while simultaneously relearning the song. Then I'll be looking forward to perhaps a completely live recording - maybe home studio with other musicians - and definitely get it in shape for jam sessions.

Thanks again for listening.
#2
im not sure i like the drum tracks on the new one much. you should really do it with an actual drummer. the tone is way better on the new one. it sounds like something hendrix would play for some reason. the older one feels a bit more gritty which i like but it sacrifices tone somehow so you might tweak it a little but its pretty good.

cheers!

EDIT: how hard was it to put the guitar parts together and get them to transition decently?
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alright, off topic but how do i make forum posts



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a4lrocker is an offical thread legend.
#3
That "Whammy Madness in Em" is kind of cool. I like it. What ever you were useing worked.
I dont have answers for you but I hope you can find that "like you said" high gain feel again. Goodluck. It will be cool when you figure it all out.
#4
YO Steve, Hey man its sounding pretty good. I think you should give the champ a thorough workout and crank the distortion up a wee bit more and see what happens. I love the old champs! But Ive always just played them nice and blues like.

The song sounds better and worse all at the same time...howd you manage that lol. I think the song sounds more structured but gets away from the seat of your pants feel the original had...make any sense?

Were just starting to record some of our new songs and by new I mean that were still dickin around with the structures....................anyways I took some real time and came up with a really cool solo thats like 40 seconds long and when I came up with it, it sounded great then I recorded it still all good, then we rehearsed tonight and it feel apart haha. Im not gonna trash it I just have to work out subtle changes because I wrote it on one recording from last week and with the band live the song can change ever so slightly thus giving me these very slight changes in my timing and whammo solo doesnt fit.

WHY did I type all that...oh yeah. I think your facing that same problem to a degree. Youve changed up a few things and while everything is there I think your just facing timing issues...nothing you cant fix and the song is gonna smoke once you iron these things out.

As for the guitar selection I cant help you there bud...break out whatevers tried and true and whale on it.

Two last things, first try out that Marshall its hard to go wrong there and second sometimes, just sometimes you cant remake a moment. If I remember correctly the first version you played after having quite a bad day, week or month. Which reminds me back in my younger years songs were so much easier to write lol I was always pissed at something or someone and now days Im much more tolerant and laid back not the best attitude for writing punk style music lol.

Its late but Ill make an effort to give the song a few more listens on Friday and post once more.

Later.
If you check my profile song please leave a comment on any part.....THANKS!!!
Last edited by v8ko at Mar 7, 2008,
#5
Quote by a4lrocker
im not sure i like the drum tracks on the new one much.


Neither am I.

I'll try something different.

If you can think of any specific suggestions, that might help.

Quote by a4lrocker
you should really do it with an actual drummer.


That's in the plans - but for now I'll have to see what I can come up with electronically.

Quote by a4lrocker
the tone is way better on the new one.


Glad to hear you think so. Like I said - I'll definitely give my Marshall a try. But I was trying some different Champ sounds using more distortion and a little compression to keep it from getting too raspy.

Quote by a4lrocker

EDIT: how hard was it to put the guitar parts together and get them to transition decently?


Very easy - Acid makes it a snap.
#6
Quote by SGT. WARNING
That "Whammy Madness in Em" is kind of cool. I like it. What ever you were useing worked.
I dont have answers for you but I hope you can find that "like you said" high gain feel again. Goodluck. It will be cool when you figure it all out.



Thanks for the encouragement Sarge. I've been experimenting with some different tones and getting nice results.

I actually might play it on my Charvel too - it's a good "hot rod" style guitar for that - humbucker w/floyd.

I commented on your Abduction song - I liked it!
#7
Quote by v8ko
YO Steve, Hey man its sounding pretty good. I think you should give the champ a thorough workout and crank the distortion up a wee bit more and see what happens. I love the old champs! But Ive always just played them nice and blues like.


Thanks v8ko! Good advice - I took it and I'm finding the right settings to slam the Champ's input and still sound nice.

I was recording something else with my Charvel->Old-Ross-Chorus->RAT->Old-DOD-compressor - it sounded good! I'm gonna' try this setup next time I get back to Whammy Madness.

btw - this is the new, re-issued Champion 600. Sounds very similar to the old 1949-50 champ its based upon - a 6V6/12AX7-6"-speaker-special. And as you noted about old ones - my new one really sounds good "blues like" with my Tele running straight in.

Quote by v8ko
The song sounds better and worse all at the same time...howd you manage that lol. I think the song sounds more structured but gets away from the seat of your pants feel the original had...make any sense?



I hear ya... I'm still in the reverse engineering stage - and as I said - I put this one together in pieces. I think that has much to do with the "lost feel". I'm getting looser with it the more I play it. I also think getting a higher gain setting back will improve the feel considerably.


Quote by v8ko

Were just starting to record some of our new songs and by new I mean that were still dickin around with the structures....................anyways I took some real time and came up with a really cool solo thats like 40 seconds long and when I came up with it, it sounded great then I recorded it still all good, then we rehearsed tonight and it feel apart haha. Im not gonna trash it I just have to work out subtle changes because I wrote it on one recording from last week and with the band live the song can change ever so slightly thus giving me these very slight changes in my timing and whammo solo doesnt fit.

WHY did I type all that...oh yeah. I think your facing that same problem to a degree. Youve changed up a few things and while everything is there I think your just facing timing issues...nothing you cant fix and the song is gonna smoke once you iron these things out.



Thanks man - I hear what you're saying - I'm not gonna' let the lost feel in these takes discourage me.


Quote by v8ko
Two last things, first try out that Marshall its hard to go wrong there and second sometimes, just sometimes you cant remake a moment. If I remember correctly the first version you played after having quite a bad day, week or month. Which reminds me back in my younger years songs were so much easier to write lol I was always pissed at something or someone and now days Im much more tolerant and laid back not the best attitude for writing punk style music lol.


Yeah - for a song like this - it doesn't make sense not to try the Marshall!

And I'm sure I'll get pissed of here someday soon when I'm ready to record some tracks.

Thanks a bunch for checking it out.