#1
Say, if I play these powerchords : E - C - D - E(octave higher)
How can I say what keys I can play in? What modes/scales etc can I use to solo over it?
It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
#2
For scales use E minor, E minor pentatonic or E phrygian. The key would be E minor.
#3
But why would the key be E minor? How to u tell?
It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
#4
Oh sorry I didn't get that bit. You look at all the notes you're playing with and line them up (EGABCD in this case) and then you can use the Circle of 5ths to see what key they're in. I'm sure some of the other guys here can explain better but I'm in a hurry.
#5
k, thnx I'll see what I find out ^^
It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
#6
E - B - C - G - D - A - G# These are the notes I play in a chord progression. Then, what is the next step? How do I use the circle of fift's to find the key?
It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
#8
Ok, now I know that. But how exactly do you find that out?
It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
#9
you learn scales, so that you know what accidentals/intervals are in each key/scale. Read about the circle of fifths, the major scales then move on to the 3 minor scales, then modes, then come back here in a while once you figure that out.
#10
actually, the chords are what defines a key signature best. Going by the melody/scale can lead you astray. Say you're playing you're harmonic minor. That would denote that you are in the key of Amin/Cmajor. But the notes A B C D E F G# could have a whole bunch of different functions in different keys. So, to be sure...

use the Dominant function chords, most notably the V or vii to get the key signature. If you see a standard prog go Bm6 - E7 - Am7, because of that E7 being dominant, it is the V chord. Thus you are most definitely in the key of Am and not CMaj. idk know if I explained that well. So ask if that's confusing.
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#11
All right, I know the major scales. wwhwwwh step things, and I know that to play e.g E major scale u need four #. like E F# G# A B C# D# E. But that doesn't get me to the next thing.

and if I want a Emaj chord I use the note 1-3-5 E - G# - B

So, if I find a scale that have all my notes in, then I can solo in that scale? right?

AND, I've learned me what modes are. like w-h-www-h-w is another mode of the major scale. right?
It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
Last edited by Haagse at Mar 7, 2008,
#12
Key of C: C, Dm, Em, F, G, A, Bdim

Those are the chords for the key of C, you can find out the chords for every other key By messing 2 patterns, the major scale pattern:

WWHWWWH
(W is whole, H is half, a whole step would be 1st fret to 3rd, while a half would be 3rd fret to 4th)

you mesh that with the pattern

Maj, min, min, maj, maj, min, diminished

So you want the song in key of C, get your root note C(3rd fret), and count out the notes with the major scale pattern, C,d,e,f,g,a,b

then just add the maj/min pattern in to get the key.
Quote by dcdossett65
Life is too short to worry about this crap.

Who.

Cares.
#13
" then just add the maj/min pattern in to get the key. "

plz explain a bit further? I'm norwegian, so I'm not really used to diminished and major and minor and stuff :p
It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
#14
And if I play A harmonic minor it would be like this on 5 string.

0-2-4-5-7-8-11-12

Can I just move that pattern to the 4 string and I'll have D harmonic minor?
these are the notes then :

D-E-F#-G-A-A#-C#-D

And if I would like to solo over that scale, I'll just find the chord's that uses all or some of those notes? Am I right?
It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
#15
okay, forget the diminished for now, you dont need it quite yet.....

Figure out what key you want to play in...i'll use C as an example again, since there are no sharps or flats... You just use a C major scale, to find that the notes in the key of C, are C,d,e,f,g,a,b, then you just apply the major/minor pattern to figure out what chords you can use for that key.

Maj, min, min, maj, maj, min, then deminished

apply the first part of each pattern...C, and maj, to get the C major chord, then D minor, then Emin, Fmaj, ect.

sory if its hard to understand, I'm trying to explain it the best I can...try about.guitar.com, and look it up there, it was usefull for me when I was first starting out.
Quote by dcdossett65
Life is too short to worry about this crap.

Who.

Cares.
#16
after you have your chord progression and know what key it's in, then you can pick any scale you want that applies for that key.
Quote by dcdossett65
Life is too short to worry about this crap.

Who.

Cares.
#17
But why this pattern? :S Maj, min, min, maj, maj, min, then deminished

BTW: I know how to make those chords
It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
#18
I just read this at guitar.com somewhere.

"Lean the chord scale. Each note corresponds with a chord. Considering the major scale, memorize this relationship because it applies to all keys. The notes change when changing keys, but the relationships don't.

I = major chord
ii = minor chord
iii = minor chord
IV = major
V = major
vi = minor
vii = dimished


now applied to the A major scale, we have:

A
Bmin
C#min
D
E
F#min
G#dim
"


Soooooo... If I want to use the Amaj scale to use for my melody/solo these are the chords I can use? or some of them.
It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
#19
I dont realy know, I just know that if you use that pattern, you can find the chords to use in any key...why doesn't realy seem to matter as long as it works.
Quote by dcdossett65
Life is too short to worry about this crap.

Who.

Cares.
#20
hehe, true

But I'll just use that pattern on I , III and V?
It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
#21
Quote by Haagse

Soooooo... If I want to use the Amaj scale to use for my melody/solo these are the chords I can use? or some of them.


Yup! That's correct. IMPORTANT - remember that the V is always going to be a DOMINANT chord. This is also true in minor. There are reasons why this is so(and of course times when it is not) but I won't get into that right now. And you can use ALL of them BUT, some are not used because they make for awkward progressions. For now, use your ear to figure these out.

Look's like you're all set to start composing! good luck. ask if you have q's
Gear:
Inflatable Guitar
Digitech GSP 2101/Mosvalve 962/Yamaha S412V
My Imagination
#22
Err are they power chords?

And why dont u try learning all the chords in what keys, theres only 6 in each one, plus the diminished ofcourse.

Learn the 3 chord trick for all keys, then learn all the minors.

Itll help alot, Youll eventually be able to think, hmmm ill play in B Major,
and start strumming away. (With B, E, F# and c#, d#, g# ) whoop whoop

By the way, if you play Emin, Cmaj, Dmaj, that would B in Emin, but Emaj, Cmaj, Dmaj isnt in a key....
#24
Ok, now I just made a little riff that I kinda liked. And it has these notes C# - D - E - G - A - B.

What is the fastest way to find out what scale I can use? Can I use A major scale here? Sry for nagging som f*ing much, but I think this is a pain in the ass ^^

And, if I can use the A major scale here, can I use another mode e.g A phrygian or A mixolydian over the same riff?
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It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
#25
To TS, I don't know how to answer your last question, I'm currently still wraping my head around modes and things of that sort, but you asked a question of why the pattern is that way.

I am refering to the order of the chords in the Major scales of course.
Major
minor
minor
Major
Major
minor
Diminished

I think it's important to know why this is, the way it is. To understand it you must know the intervals of the major scale, which you already know.

wwhwwwh

Since you know that, lets use the C major scale as the example.
use the wwhwwwh to get the notes of the C major scale, this is easier when looking at a guitar neck.

C D E F G A B
w w h w w w h

A major is always made of up the notes 1(root) 3 and 5 out of the scale. So we take C E and G because those are on the scale as 1 3 and 5. This forms the C major scale. Now, the 2nd note in the C major scale is D, so we want to try and get the D Major chord.

Lets try this:
We use the wwhwwwh as our guide again, but starting on the D note.

D E F# G A B C#
w w h w w w h

Wait a minute, we see right off 2 of these notes arn't in the C major scale, which is the scale we are looking for the chord in. But lets get our D major anyway for now.
1 3 and 5 end up being the notes D F# and A.

Uh oh....F# is NOT in the C major scale. So the next chord can't be D Major, we have to change the chord so that it CAN fit into the C major scale. We do this by lowering the 3rd be a half step, creating a Minor chord. This is because a minor chord instead of being 1 3 5
is 1 b3 5. b3 meaning flat the 3rd, or being the 3rd down by a half step.

If you use wwhwwwh again to try and get F Major you will find it's the same problem, you have to make the F a minor chord.

This is why the order is Major minor minor Major Major minor Diminished.

I hope I explained it clearly, as I feel it's important to know WHY the order is the way it is.
Last edited by Guitarfreak777 at Mar 7, 2008,
#26
Quote by Haagse
Ok, now I just made a little riff that I kinda liked. And it has these notes C# - D - E - G - A - B.

What is the fastest way to find out what scale I can use? Can I use A major scale here? Sry for nagging som f*ing much, but I think this is a pain in the ass ^^

And, if I can use the A major scale here, can I use another mode e.g A phrygian or A mixolydian over the same riff?


The circle of fifth can tell you what scale you can use depending on how many sharps you got. In this case, you got only C#, so you can only use the D major scale/B minor scale.

Check out this lesson for more info: http://www.zentao.com/guitar/theory/circle.html
Besides being a guitar player, I'm a big fan of the guitar. I love that damn instrument. Steve Vai

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Dunlop Tortex 1.14mm picks


MY VIDEOS
#27
Quote by Haagse
Ok, now I just made a little riff that I kinda liked. And it has these notes C# - D - E - G - A - B.

What is the fastest way to find out what scale I can use? Can I use A major scale here? Sry for nagging som f*ing much, but I think this is a pain in the ass ^^

And, if I can use the A major scale here, can I use another mode e.g A phrygian or A mixolydian over the same riff?
Again...you need chords to set the tonality. A melody can contain any number of non-key tones.

But for now, you're safe with playing b minor which it most likely is. Again, to repeat what everyone has said, learn your circle of fifths. And yes, even basic theory is always mind-numbing UNTIL you get it. Then you'll say "oh! It's all so simple!". So I sympathize.
Gear:
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Digitech GSP 2101/Mosvalve 962/Yamaha S412V
My Imagination
#28
To Guitarfreak777. Thank you, now I understand it!

and I've been studying the circle of fifhts for a while now, and I understand now why I cant use Amaj scale over here : C# - D - E - G - A - B. because the g aint sharp. But I know that C# is the second sharp u use in circle of fifths, and the first is alway F#, so I can use Dmaj?


Dmaj is : D - E - F# - G - A - B - C# - D

And this is Bmaj right? B - C# - D# - E - F# - G# - A# - B
To make this scale fit with the notes I got earlier I have to flat the third, sixth and seventh right? The the scale would be B minor, which is the relative minor to D major.

To find a major scales relative minor I just have to lower the first note one minor third?


If this isn't correct, then how do I set up the notes I got earlier (C# - D - E - G - A - B) into a fitting scale? Where to start?


Let's say that I just got 3 notes in a riff, how can I best set them in a scale?

I think I'm after : how do I find the root note?
It's easy to be a rock star, but a musician? jeeez..

Originally posted by Jag513
Don't worry, I like long tongues
No, I can't, but my ex could...she was really flexible. But yeah, it's not impossible to lick it, it's impossible to kiss it.
Last edited by Haagse at Mar 8, 2008,
#29
Quote by Haagse
To Guitarfreak777. Thank you, now I understand it!

and I've been studying the circle of fifhts for a while now, and I understand now why I cant use Amaj scale over here : C# - D - E - G - A - B. because the g aint sharp. But I know that C# is the second sharp u use in circle of fifths, and the first is alway F#, so I can use Dmaj?


Dmaj is : D - E - F# - G - A - B - C# - D

And this is Bmaj right? B - C# - D# - E - F# - G# - A# - B
To make this scale fit with the notes I got earlier I have to flat the third, sixth and seventh right? The the scale would be B minor, which is the relative minor to D major.

To find a major scales relative minor I just have to lower the first note one minor third?


If this isn't correct, then how do I set up the notes I got earlier (C# - D - E - G - A - B) into a fitting scale? Where to start?


Let's say that I just got 3 notes in a riff, how can I best set them in a scale?

I think I'm after : how do I find the root note?



Sorry to bring this thread back up if you made another, but what exactly are you asking?