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#1
After causing a mild rukus in the news section about the Arctic Monkeys and my opinion of them I thought it might be fitting to start a discussion on modern indie music that we are seeing in Britain at the moment (I say Britain because I am most familiar with it).

I realise a lot of people here are going to be people who like indie, and I am not interested in offending anyone so please dont call me names

I just have an issue with the fact that so many people are hailing this music as amazing and really cool - to me its almost an insult to rock music which has grown so much over the past 50 years. the genre is littered with simplicity (not that simple and repitition isnt good or doesnt work - ac/dc confess themselves that they just play the same 4 chords in different patterns but it works well).

The regional dialect thing is getting to me aswell - someone in the arctic monnkeys post got a little carried away and said I was a tw*t over this one.. maybe I am. He argued that everywhere in Britain has a regional dialect and indeed it does (I myself suffer from being from Birmingham, one of the most irritating and dumb sounding accents in the world). However, Muse, Led Zeppelin, Radiohead, Queen etc etc etc dont 'suffer' from this condition - and they are all ALOT more influential than Kaiser Chiefs/Arctic Monkeys and the like (lets not get started on Kate Nash).

The music itself just screams of being samey - dont get me wrong, my teenage years were awash with skater rock/nu metal bands that were EVERYWHERE and sounded identical, so I am more than aware that this is the way things go when musical trends set in. Its just with this music there arent any 'balls' on it - when im in a club I see all these people jumping up and down having a great time to this music, but its all so bland and I personally find it depressing. The music itself is not well written and there is little technical diffculty to interest someone who plays an instrument. Im not advocating that fast/heavy/hard music is the way forward or the best - I find little interest in someone who can play a thousand notes a second or hit a drum so fast you cant even see their hands.

Is it that people want to feel like part of a group and feel cool listening to 'common' songs that apparently relfect their lifestyle? I dunno, like I say I dont want to offend, Im just puzzled. When the Libertines strarted all this off god knows how long ago now, I thought it was gonna be a short craze that would die and we could all get back to normal, alas no.

So, basically I was wondering if anyone would like to contribute towards this discussion maturely and try to stear away from being vindictive - we all have a right to our own opinions. Thankyou if youve read this... its long and annoying!
#3
i think indie recently is not rock music...its pop music, on a par with s club 7, steps and so on.
No talent, a fake northern accent, and a trampy appearance is all u need.
There is no appreciation for the skills and talents, the melodic, harmonious and down right mosh-worthy rock of the past with these indie folk.
Metallica need to stick around as long as possible to provide some good new music
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#4
NME anyone?

and i totally agree with what's being said... and i listen to some indie, but for what it is, nothing beyond that... music doesn't need to be complicated for me to like it... but i like complex music
Last edited by satyphan at Mar 15, 2008,
#5
Quote by webbtje
I agree, but wow you're gonna get hate and quite possibly a warning out of this.


pulease, this isn't the third reich.

indie, as its grown to be called, is such a simplistic genre, as you pointed out - the level of musicianship is relatively limited, so its easy for people to pile on the bandwagon. what really boils my piss is the stuck up, arrogant pricks who are convinced their stuff is wholly original (*COUGH* ANDREW STOCKDALE *COUGH*) when it really isn't.

also with the increasing popularity of myspace and similar sites, the whole culture is snowballing. from here, it doesnt look like its stopping. that's pretty depressing.
#6
Please refine your definition of indie. Basically, that UK stuff is everything indie isn't. If you look at our 'Alt/Indie Essentials' thread you will notice that none of those UK bands are on there, simply due to the fact that they aren't really contribruting to indie in any way. Those bands are just standard pop rock, really.

But diffrent strokes for diffrent folks, people. I'm not saying that I think Kaiser Cheifs, The View, The Fratellis etc are good, but if you don't like it, just ignore it. It's not that hard.
#7
Quote by broady15
i think indie recently is not rock music...its pop music, on a par with s club 7, steps and so on.
No talent, a fake northern accent, and a trampy appearance is all u need.
There is no appreciation for the skills and talents, the melodic, harmonious and down right mosh-worthy rock of the past with these indie folk.
Metallica need to stick around as long as possible to provide some good new music



Anyway, I'm not a fan of the British side of indie. I've never even listened to the Kaiser Chiefs, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't love indie. There is a ton of variety, the stuff you here at a club is, of course, going to be the most acceptable stuff.

I doubt you'll be hearing Animal Collective, Deerhoof, Xiu Xiu, Parenthetical Girls, or anything that a lot of us here like.

To defend Brit indie, though. Nothing is wrong with simple music, and maybe people like that. A sort of simplistic revival.
#8
Quote by European Son
Please refine your definition of indie. Basically, that UK stuff is everything indie isn't. If you look at our 'Alt/Indie Essentials' thread you will notice that none of those UK bands are on there, simply due to the fact that they aren't really contribruting to indie in any way. Those bands are just standard pop rock, really.

But diffrent strokes for diffrent folks, people. I'm not saying that I think Kaiser Cheifs, The View, The Fratellis etc are good, but if you don't like it, just ignore it. It's not that hard.

+1

You really have the wrong definition of indie TS.
#9
long story short: real indie != british indie. most people here can agree with the fact that british "indie" music blows.

sorry brah, but that post was relatively redundant and unnecessary.

edit: apparently just like mine -_-
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#10
Indie: A label for music that cannot be labeled.

You cannot compare skills. Rock may be harder to play than indie, but classical is still harder than rock. Simplicity has nothing to do with how good the music is, in my opinion. Yeah, I'll listen to some Steve Vai, but then I might listen to some acoustic music. That doesn't mean I like Steve Vai better because he has more skill. If music was about speed, where would we be today?

Sometimes, simplicity is the best way to go. I'm not saying that Indie is better because it's simpler. I personally hate people who are individual just because they don't want to be like other people, but still end up being like a million other people. The music world is changing, and I don't like it. But what can we do besides make our own music and bring back true musicianship?
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#11
Fugazirancid
Put "me" in the equation.




Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: north carolina long story short: real indie != british indie. most people here can agree with the fact that british "indie" music blows.

sorry brah, but that post was relatively redundant and unnecessary.

edit: apparently just like mine -_-


surely its not unnecessary if in Britain this is our understanding of it..?
#12
ok, so we're talking about the huge rush of "indie" bands that all seem the same...i.e. arctic monkeys, the kooks, all that crap

The funny thing is they all wear iron maiden t-shirts and say that they wanna be like their idols black sabbath and stuff...but they are a disgrace to those bands
Quote by ukuleleftw
When is beating your cat not justified?


Quote by Gaz_m2k5
This is almost as stupid as when someone thought there might be a UG warehouse where all the tabs are stored.



July 8th, 2007 @ Wembley - Best day ever
#13
The music itself just screams of being samey - dont get me wrong, my teenage years were awash with skater rock/nu metal bands that were EVERYWHERE and sounded identical, so I am more than aware that this is the way things go when musical trends set in.


Anyone who says that indie all sounds the same hasn't listened to much indie. Perhaps you're referring to Indie Pop - meaning the small rock bands that have a few hit songs and are eventually signed to a major label, but are touted as being favs of the Indie rock scene?

Part of the appeal of indie is that it encompasses such a diverse collection of bands and sounds - far more than major label pop genres do. This tends to be because small independent labels don't pressure their musicians to produce certain types of songs, and encourage creativity and new sounds.

Here's a small smattering of indie music (as I know it) - where I think it's pretty clear that it doesn't sound remotely the same. This is just a few examples pulled from my iTunes music library (most with a folky feel, which is what I prefer... although you may not), referenced via myspace profile pages:

Death Vessel // http://www.myspace.com/deathvessel
Blonde Redhead // http://www.myspace.com/blonderedhead
Mahogany // http://www.myspace.com/mahoganyinthecity
Akron/Family // http://www.myspace.com/akak
Efterklang // http://www.myspace.com/efterklang
Espers // http://www.myspace.com/espers
Califone // http://www.myspace.com/califonemusic
Smog // http://www.myspace.com/smoggertone
#14
Quote by broady15
ok, so we're talking about the huge rush of "indie" bands that all seem the same...i.e. arctic monkeys, the kooks, all that crap

The funny thing is they all wear iron maiden t-shirts and say that they wanna be like their idols black sabbath and stuff...but they are a disgrace to those bands


Don't think Kooks or AM are fans of Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath, man.
#15
Quote by broady15

Metallica need to stick around as long as possible to provide some good new music




There's plenty of good music around at the minute. You just have to look for it. I think that type of overplayed, generic "indie" music sucks. However, it's not really indie music - it's basically pop rock.


and what on earth is broady15 talking about
#16
u wouldnt think so...saw arctic monkeys on tv once tho...and the guitarist had iron maiden tshirt on
Quote by ukuleleftw
When is beating your cat not justified?


Quote by Gaz_m2k5
This is almost as stupid as when someone thought there might be a UG warehouse where all the tabs are stored.



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#17
and what on earth is broady15 talking about

read the thread and u might understand?
not hard
Quote by ukuleleftw
When is beating your cat not justified?


Quote by Gaz_m2k5
This is almost as stupid as when someone thought there might be a UG warehouse where all the tabs are stored.



July 8th, 2007 @ Wembley - Best day ever
#18
Quote by broady15
ok, so we're talking about the huge rush of "indie" bands that all seem the same...i.e. arctic monkeys, the kooks, all that crap

The funny thing is they all wear iron maiden t-shirts and say that they wanna be like their idols black sabbath and stuff...but they are a disgrace to those bands
Why would anybody want to be like Sabbath or Maiden?

Here's a good rule to live by: let people listen to what they want, because you get to listen to what you want. All my friends hate the stuff that I listen to, so I just laugh at the horrible stuff they listen to.
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#19
Quote by broady15
and what on earth is broady15 talking about


read the thread and u might understand?
not hard

I have and still don't understand. I don't have a clue how you came to the conclsuion that Iron Madden/Black Sabbath are The Arctic Monkeys/The Kooks idols.
#21
It's awesome, and a part of musical evolution, you can't expect people to listen to old bands that don't put out albums until the end of time. I'm not too familiar with many UK indie bands, but a lot of the bands I listen to that are considered indie have way more complexity than the way you stated.
#22
Quote by ChucklesMginty
In conclusion Indie is really bad and we need more awesome rock bands. The End


Wait, why is it bad? It doesn't all sound the same, and it doesn't lack complexity - so there must be another reason why all people should stop listening to Indie....
#23
Quote by ChucklesMginty
In conclusion Indie is really bad and we need more awesome rock bands. The End

Indie is rock, silly. What you are saying is basically like saying "techno sucks, we need more electronica". Totally contradictory argument.
#24
Quote by ChucklesMginty
In conclusion Indie is really bad and we need more awesome rock bands. The End


like vultures, you guys only come around when a thread like this pops up.

in conclusion, why isn't this closed yet?
#25
Quote by ChucklesMginty
In conclusion Indie is really bad and we need more awesome rock bands. The End


Idiot. Indie isn't what NME fellates they do nothing for music but keep old stereotypes running.
#26
The only problem is that I don't see any of these bands being influential in the future. Today we can look back at classic British bands like The Who, The Smiths atc. etc. etc.

But whose gonna be big in 50 years time from todays bunch. Loads of bands have two maybe three albums and dissapear. A lot of the bands sound the same, and little is being done to try and change the generic view of indie.
#27

like vultures, you guys only come around when a thread like this pops up.

in conclusion, why isn't this closed yet?


you came here too... serisuosly though I didnt want this to be an argument. I am fully aware that the word indie means somethign different to others (mainly in the states) and you are lucky to associate it with that. but if you live in Britain the music I am relating to is EVERYWHERE and is well worth a discussion in a thread like this.
#28
Quote by jamie_hough
you came here too.

because i have an agenda, i normally discuss indie music. not to bash something i have no knowledge of.

not to say that is what you are doing, but that is all this thread is going to attract.
#29
because i have an agenda, i normally discuss indie music. not to bash something i have no knowledge of.

not to say that is what you are doing, but that is all this thread is going to attract.


I get that I really do... but I cant see it bashing anything that much really.. and it isnt bashing the type of indie music your associating it with.
#30
I think British Indie is in a bit of an SOS time tbh.

This thread should stay open, its not about bashing bands, more about what Indie (primarily in the UK) means today.

So far this has been a sensible disucssion, and I'd like for the thread to stay open.
#31
^No. This thread and its supporters are essentially closed-minded and ignorant idiots who don't even bother looking into a genre before coming onto a board where the average user IQ is 50 points higher than there's. The Arctic Monkeys and their clones aren't indie. They're pop-rock. We really don't need this thread. Most of this board's regulars will agree with me when I say that their is almost no dispute as to which band belongs on this board and which band doesn't. Even if their is a thread about say, The Kooks/Bloc Party/whoever, some people will say they suck, other people will say they're catchy, and it's pretty much agreed upon that they hardly define so-called British indie. Seriously. If you want to contribute to this board, go here, get a clue as to what this board is actually a fan of, and then come back and we will welcome your comments with open arms.
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#34
Quote by Doolittle

this is silly!


Completely agree, but at 4am I have not much clue what's going on.

Quote by Fugazirancid
long story short: real indie != british indie. most people here can agree with the fact that british "indie" music blows.


No, mainstream British indie music blows just like mainstream American indie music. If you actually take the time to dig below the surface of something you'll always discover something worth listening to.
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#35
Quote by Andrewbiles
No, mainstream British indie music blows just like mainstream American indie music. If you actually take the time to dig below the surface of something you'll always discover something worth listening to.


+1. Most intelligent thing said in this thread by far.
#36
Quote by pumpkins_rule
^No. This thread and its supporters are essentially closed-minded and ignorant idiots who don't even bother looking into a genre before coming onto a board where the average user IQ is 50 points higher than there's. The Arctic Monkeys and their clones aren't indie. They're pop-rock. We really don't need this thread. Most of this board's regulars will agree with me when I say that their is almost no dispute as to which band belongs on this board and which band doesn't. Even if their is a thread about say, The Kooks/Bloc Party/whoever, some people will say they suck, other people will say they're catchy, and it's pretty much agreed upon that they hardly define so-called British indie. Seriously. If you want to contribute to this board, go here, get a clue as to what this board is actually a fan of, and then come back and we will welcome your comments with open arms.


^This thread is about the state of mainstream "indie" music. Though Arctic Monkeys and the likes are considered indie, I DO know that they are far from it, and are mere pop-rock/"indie-pop" artists. It wasn't always like this though. Indie/Alternative was at once a mainstream genre minus the pop side. Artists like Radiohead, Sonic Youth, Muse, The Smiths etc. were mainstream and still made good Indie music.

Mainstream indie today is really bad, and if the good bands don't make the mainstream the genre is in doubt.

I am not closed minded, I am not ignorant, I know what Indie is.
Last edited by meh17 at Mar 16, 2008,
#37
^No. This thread and its supporters are essentially closed-minded and ignorant idiots who don't even bother looking into a genre before coming onto a board where the average user IQ is 50 points higher than there's. The Arctic Monkeys and their clones aren't indie. They're pop-rock. We really don't need this thread. Most of this board's regulars will agree with me when I say that their is almost no dispute as to which band belongs on this board and which band doesn't. Even if their is a thread about say, The Kooks/Bloc Party/whoever, some people will say they suck, other people will say they're catchy, and it's pretty much agreed upon that they hardly define so-called British indie. Seriously. If you want to contribute to this board, go here, get a clue as to what this board is actually a fan of, and then come back and we will welcome your comments with open arms


for gods sake... how many times do I have to say this - I understand that to most people around the world and in Britain who are into 'real' indie music view bands like arctic monkeys as seperate from the genre, however popular culture over here is refering them as indie. Maybe I should have been more clear in the original post. The people here are not closed minded... maybe you are for not being able to slightly comprehend that the word indie means something different to different people and cultures around the world. Plus, there really isnt anywhere else suitable on the site to put a thread like this up - I am sorry if I have offended people into legit indie bands, but just dont read or comment on here - Im not offending your taste in music. To those who understand what Im talking about though, Im sure will find interesting comments here.
#38
Quote by broady15
Metallica need to stick around as long as possible to provide some good new music

Oh man, I want to sig that.

This thread is full of really ill-informed people who need to calm down, turn off the radio and go and get some sunshine.
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#40
Music evolves from past genres, you cant say todays "indie" is a disgrace to rock 50 years ago. If we made the same music as 50 years ago, we would never move on and get new genres.

I agree, some of these bands suck, but I personally like arctic monkeys, you obviously haven't listened to their best songs, just "i bet you look good on the dancefloor"..
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