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#1
Hey guys... People are forever bringing down the "speed" factor when playing guitar saying that it means nothing. They are right in a sense but I say that it's not the most important aspect of playing guitar but is one of the skills some people don't have... Please give your views guys! CYA
#2
No one's been saying speed doesn't matter at all. We just say that other things matter more.
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#3
Quote by Raziel2p
No one's been saying speed doesn't matter at all. We just say that other things matter more.

+1
#4
People who say speed means nothing can't play fast.
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#6
It's just another skill which depends on the presense of other skills. If you just run through one standard scale faster than a speeding bullet over and over again, then yeah, you have a lot of work to do.
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#7
Depends what kind of player you are obviously :s I play mostly Blues so technique isn't as important as say, note choice, vibrato, and the way I do my bends. I don't care much for shred though I'm not a fast player. I don't NEED to play fast to say what I want, even in a metal context. I play melodies, not scales.


Saying 'people who don't like shred are people who can't play fast' is stupid. Some people don't want nor need to play fast and don't care for it. It doesn't make them worse players and it sure doesn't mean they can't shred.
Last edited by Pott at Mar 17, 2008,
#9
Quote by Mad Marius
People who say speed means nothing can't play fast.


thats the type of newb comment that adds nothing to the discussion.

Speed is a factor for a solo. But alot of people believe that shredders dont have other skills. I.E changes in dynamics etc.

This isn't the case for alot of shredders but can become apparant for some.

Melody over speed i say.
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#12
its how good it sounds that counts not how fast you can play it

shore playing uber fast can be cool but id rather an awesome sounding solo then a realy fast load of ****
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#13
Quote by Footzyrama
thats the type of newb comment that adds nothing to the discussion.

Speed is a factor for a solo. But alot of people believe that shredders dont have other skills. I.E changes in dynamics etc.

This isn't the case for alot of shredders but can become apparant for some.

Melody over speed i say.


And I'm saying people who say stuff like "playing fast has no emotion" or anything stupid like that, are in fact trying to put down skillful players who can play fast and accurately, because they're jealous and don't have the ambition to reach the same level of performance.

The fact is, accurate speed, whether melodic or not, is an indicative of great skill.


And rather than constantly dissing people who invested time and effort in practicing and acquiring a control of the instrument which few of you brats have even dreamed of, you could try learning from them.
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Last edited by Mad Marius at Mar 17, 2008,
#14
Quote by Mad Marius
And I'm saying people who say stuff like "playing fast has no emotion" or anything stupid like that, are in fact trying to put down skillful players who can play fast and accurately, because they're jealous and don't have the ambition to reach the same level of performance.


Aaaand once again... performance is not the same for everyone. For me, shredding and playing fast is NOT the ultimate skill. It's just practice.

Jealous and ambition... Jesus man :s You really don't get it eh? NOT EVERYONE WANTS TO PLAY FAST TO SAY WHAT THEY WANT! It's as simple as that. It's NOTHING to do with skills, ambition, or jealousy.


To play fast, regardless of melody, is the indication of A skill. An ability. Not 'skills'. Some people don't see it as a skill.
#15
It's hard to play fast, but its also hard to get a great sounding melody etc.

Both skills, one which can be learned (playing fast) and one thing you get given pretty much (melody) but can be developed.
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#16
I don't like to think of music in terms of speed. It's impractical and hinders the full perspective and appreciation of the music.

I think that shredding describes a type of playing that puts a lot of emphasis on speed and has a tendency to reach a certain speed in every performance. To me, that takes away the dynamics of music, regardless of whether or not developing chops is difficult. Ultimately, as a listener, I become note-wary.

I listen to musicians who don't consider speed as a course in their music. Their playing could be fast in one line and slow in another or anything in between; you don't bother categorizing or measuring the speed of notes. It sounds much more organic and appeals to me a lot more. I also consider development and structure much more important than just the notes themselves and I think a lot of shredders miss that point.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#18
Quote by Mad Marius
And I'm saying people who say stuff like "playing fast has no emotion" or anything stupid like that, are in fact trying to put down skillful players who can play fast and accurately, because they're jealous and don't have the ambition to reach the same level of performance.

The fact is, accurate speed, whether melodic or not, is an indicative of great skill.


And rather than constantly dissing people who invested time and effort in practicing and acquiring a control of the instrument which few of you brats have even dreamed of, you could try learning from them.



+1, It's getting annoying.

People think that playing good means playing a bend every-other 2 notes and making ugly faces.
#19
Quote by Portuguese_boy
+1, It's getting annoying.

People think that playing good means playing a bend every-other 2 notes and making ugly faces.



Teh Blues?! lawlz
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#20
Speed is awesome when used correctly, ex. Marty Friedman, but sucks when used incorrectly, ex. Yngwie Malmsteen.
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#22
Listening to a lot of shred is just ****ing boring, alot of scales played realy fast up and down isnt very creative and interesting.
I like speedy solos and stuff and i work on my speed and try to get faster.
But speed isnt enough, you gotta have melody in there. Vibrato, bends, dynamics etc.. its equaly important. infact more important. if you cant use vibrato and bends in a good way, well, then your playing is not gonna sound any good.
#25
Quote by Mad Marius
People who say speed means nothing can't play fast.


Or maybe they choose not to play fast. I don't like shred, so I'm not going to bother learning how to. I have respect for people who can shred because I'm sure it takes a lot of practice to be good at it, but it's not what I like listening to.

Quote by Mad Marius
And I'm saying people who say stuff like "playing fast has no emotion" or anything stupid like that, are in fact trying to put down skillful players who can play fast and accurately, because they're jealous and don't have the ambition to reach the same level of performance.

The fact is, accurate speed, whether melodic or not, is an indicative of great skill.


And rather than constantly dissing people who invested time and effort in practicing and acquiring a control of the instrument which few of you brats have even dreamed of, you could try learning from them.


Yes people say that shred doesn't have emotion is stupid. However, it doesn't mean they're jealous, they just see emotion in a different way. And like I said before, people that don't want to shred aren't going to take the time to learn how. It doesn't mean that they don't have the ambition to do it, don't make it sound like they're better than everybody else because they can shred.

Speed doesn't indicate "great skill", it indicates a (as in one) skill. Just because you can play fast doesn't make you good at everything else.

Yet again, maybe we don't want to learn from them because we don't like it. Not everybody is impressed by shred.
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#26
half the people that say "omfg theres no emotion" are just jealous they cant play that fast, but yea, there are aspects more important than speed.
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#27
Quote by Portuguese_boy
+1, It's getting annoying.

People think that playing good means playing a bend every-other 2 notes and making ugly faces.

I think that it's more annoying when people think that the blues is just playing a bend every other 2 notes and making faces.

I play the blues. I do not make ugly faces (on purpose). It's a music based wholly off improvisation and note choice. It's apples to oranges with shred.

That said, Gary Moore is a shredding blues player.

Also, speed=/=musicianship. Many of those who can play fast, don't play fast all the time. Dynamics and Note choice.
#28
Quote by cocacolabottle
Speed is awesome when used correctly, ex. Marty Friedman, but sucks when used incorrectly, ex. Yngwie Malmsteen.


Malmsteen doesn't use it "incorrectly," his whole style of playing revolves around the fact that he can do the things he does as fast as he can. It appeals to his crowd of neo-classical shredder fanboys, and you can't hate him for that.
#29
I love playing really fast, but that whole thing has worn off since my days of being a 14 y/o annoying metal head. I still love fast music, and love playing fast, but I would rather play melodic and dark than noisy, and fast.... some people feel that as their music writing skills mature, speed means less and less to them...

IE: Steven Wilson from Porcupine Tree.... he can shred like crazy... but he doesnt.... well, he breaks out some crazy heavy dark licks sometimes, but its not all about speed.

He said in an interview once:

It's really easy to get a scary dark sound out of a big loud heavily fast distorted guitar, but sometimes you can get an even better effect with a much smaller slower sound.
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#30
Quote by thsrayas
Or maybe they choose not to play fast. I don't like shred, so I'm not going to bother learning how to. I have respect for people who can shred because I'm sure it takes a lot of practice to be good at it, but it's not what I like listening to.


And people who simply choose not to play fast say "I have respect for people who can shred because it takes a lot of practice, it's just not my thing", not that "shred is stoopid, shred is just playing scales up and down the neck, shredders don't have control over dynamics (possibly the stupidest statement in this thread yet), Malmsteen is like this and like that", and other mind-blowing idiocies.
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#31
Quote by InTheFlesh!
you can't hate him for that.


I don't I don't, playing fast is fun and sounds cool sometimes, but personally I think he's just rediculous sometimes.
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#32
Speed is not the main factor, but it's pretty ridiculous to say that people shouldn't play fast or that it has less "emotion". Fast playing kicks ass, and can be just as melodic and "emotional" as slow playing. Just because someone throws in a blues bend doesn't mean they are more emotionally attached to their playing.
#33
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#34
In the end, it all comes down to what suites the song and situation. Most people will agree that mindless shredding is dull, however, the right note in the right spot, with the right speed fore this moment, will without a doubt sound good.
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#35
Quote by Mad Marius
People who say speed means nothing can't play fast.


this is idiotic, because its the wrong way round. it takes a lot of practice to learn to shred, so why would a person put that effort in if they didn't like the style of music? i can't shred because i don't like shred and have no interest in learning how to do it.

this really is just common sense. you learn how to do the things you want to do. for me, and many others, shred is not one of those things, because it sounds really really bad.
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#36
Quote by x0rsist
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#37
I'll say what I always say here;

Yes, speed is a worthwhile talent, as worthwhile as any other... if you know how to use it.

And then you get people who like 'shred" and they come along and say, 'but this guy can do it tastefuly'... and you look it and i"M just like 'what exactly is your standard here?'

My favourite guitar player is robben ford, now he *can* play ridiculously fast and in one album there are three licks that are really fast, three, in the whole album cause that was all that was needed.

Too much speed makes everything sound awful, just like too much vibrato all the time (see: most metal bands), too many effects all the time etc etc.

Also, I don't believe anyone can truly hear what's going on when you listen to songs where the hthey're playing a 32 nps (or whatever it is) . I cannot follow that with my ear, I can't not hear how the notes are relating to the chord. I don't like it.
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#38
An all shred-solo can be nice when pulled of the right way, like in Dream Theaters "Metropolis" or "In the presence", aswell as in Mr. Bigs song "Daddy Brother Lover Little Boy".
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#39
In my opinion, there are two things which are required for a good example of shred:

1) Technical skills, ie. fast picking, harmonics, intonation, sweeping, legato etc.
2) Compositional skills, ie. making it sound like music for people to enjoy.

I'd like to use Synyster Gates as an example. Fans, don't feel offended. This is just my opinion. I believe that mr. Gates is a very good player from a technical point of view, but what he plays sounds unpleasant to my ears. I find his choice of notes very dissonant and irritating.

On the other hand, The Edge, while not a shredder, creates interesting and atmospheric tones with his guitar, despite his limited skillz.

A good shredder doesn't just play fast for the sake of showing off. A good shredder is someone who not only possesses great technical skill, but knows how to use it effectively.

I nominate John Petrucci, Steve Vai, Jeff Loomis, Eddie Van Halen, Marty Friedman, Rob Marcello, Paul Gilbert and maybe also Buckethead.

You may disagree. I couldn't care less.
[/opinion]

And people who argue that something sucks because it has no skillz or no emoshun should shut up and go listen to what they like.
Last edited by sashki at Mar 17, 2008,
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