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#1
I'm sure many of you have heard about the Sophie Lancaster murder. If not, please read...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/7287772.stm

The problem, still after so many years, is hate crime for goths, emo, *moshers*, rockers etc...

How do you think Hate Crime should be;

-Prevented,
-Handled,
-Taught about in schools and communities to?

Peace.
Last edited by whistler369 at Mar 20, 2008,
#3
goths love thinking about death dont they?

on a serious note i think as long as humans exist, there will always be stupid things like that happening, its our way unfortunately.
Dancing In Your Dust
#4
It's very hard to prevent, if not impossible.

I won't go into a lot of detail, but lots of things will determine whether someone is dumb enough to commit a crime like that, such as his parents, peers and all that stuff.

There's already a jackass who's posted in this thread, so humanity is doomed.
#5
Quote by STEALmyDOG
goths love thinking about death dont they?

on a serious note i think as long as humans exist, there will always be stupid things like that happening, its our way unfortunately.


Very true....

Some people are stupid. Nothing we can do about it....

Quote by hairypineapple
serves them goths right



See what I mean? they are everywhere
#9
Doesn't specifically mean Hate Crime but the fact that they were targeted because of the way she was dressed... Kinda catagorises it as hate crime doesn't it?
#10
It'll end when the neds/chavs kill all the goths
Nothing of me is original. I am the combined effort of everybody I've ever known.

¨°º¤ø„¸¸„ø¤º°¨
#12
None of the youths can be named because of their age

-----------------

They kick someone to death and can't be named. If there was justice in this country then they would execute these monsters.

If someone did that to my girlfriend I would personally hunt them down and give them a slow death.
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#13
Quote by Chex
None of the youths can be named because of their age

-----------------

They kick someone to death and can't be named. If there was justice in this country then they would execute these monsters.

If someone did that to my girlfriend I would personally hunt them down and give them a slow death.


Making you as bad as them, go figure.
#14
I know that in the end it was probably because the lads where chavs and the two victims where 'goths', but it doesnt actually mention anything of the like, for all we know them boys could have done the same to a 'normal' person, or another 'chav'.

Either way, hate crime or no hate crime, its sick all three should be put away, little tossers.
#15
Quote by Alix_D
Making you as bad as them, go figure.


no, it doesn't

I'd do the same thing if they killed my gf.
#16
Quote by Alix_D
Making you as bad as them, go figure.


Get a girlfriend and then tell me that.
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#17
Quote by Chex
Get a girlfriend and then tell me that.


Funny guy, if someone killed my girlfriend I'd want to kill them and I'd habour thoughts about it, but I wouldn't do it.

Them = Murderer(s)
Me if I did it = Murderer

Plus, theirs would be closer to manslaugter than yours would, so in the eyes of the law your murder would actually be worse.
#20
Quote by Alix_D
There is that, but if you were to get revenge in this case you'd be murdering 3 people and it would be premeditated.

Again, not really. The judicial system/society would likely see it that way, but by the definition of the words it would be justified.

If you kill someone who is not innocent it isn't murder...end of.
#21
What is it then? If it's pre-planned and you kill them that's premeditated, regardless of if you'd get off in front of a jury or they weren't innocent.
#22
Quote by Alix_D
What is it then? If it's pre-planned and you kill them that's premeditated, regardless of if you'd get off in front of a jury or they weren't innocent.

Some people would define it as justice. It's certainly revenge.
#23
Quote by Alix_D
Funny guy, if someone killed my girlfriend I'd want to kill them and I'd habour thoughts about it, but I wouldn't do it.

Them = Murderer(s)
Me if I did it = Murderer

Plus, theirs would be closer to manslaugter than yours would, so in the eyes of the law your murder would actually be worse.


Wouldn't it be a passion crime or something?

Anyhow I wouldn't care. I'd get the satisfaction of knowing I've made them suffer and that they no longer exist.

I'm not a violent person, never even hit anyone, but I wouldn't like the thought of them being free after a few years.
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#24
Quote by denizenz
Some people would define it as justice. It's certainly revenge.


That's how I'd define it, but that's not what I was getting at.
#25
Quote by hairypineapple
serves them goths right


Twat.

Quote by STEALmyDOG
goths love thinking about death dont they?



You've never enjoyed playing a violent video game? Or watched an action flick? Never enjoyed the carnage?
According to BS statistics, 92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you're among the 8% who doesn't consider rap to be real music, donate your brains, as you clearly aren't using them.
#27
I find it strange that a lower middle class man can beat the crap out of another lower middle class man, and it doesn't make the papers. But as soon as it's found the person on the receiving end is some kind of minority, (in this case Goths) everyone is outraged.

The dirty little secret is that some people are just assholes, and use violence in every available circumstance, and very rarely does it involve a hate towards a minority.

Well, that's what I think anyways =)
#28
That regardless of how you dress it up, it's still murder.

And also that no matter how much they'd deserve it, killing three scumbags like that would make you a worse 'murderer' than them because you've pre-planned it and there's three of them.
#29
Quote by gallagher2006
I find it strange that a lower middle class man can beat the crap out of another lower middle class man, and it doesn't make the papers. But as soon as it's found the person on the receiving end is some kind of minority, (in this case Goths) everyone is outraged.

The dirty little secret is that some people are just assholes, and use violence in every available circumstance, and very rarely does it involve a hate towards a minority.

Well, that's what I think anyways =)


True, but rarely do people kick people to death, as far as I'm aware...!

There's been a lot of coverage of chavs beating up dad's etc, who aren't minorities, so I'd say what you said isn't strictly true.

But yes, minorities get more coverage as the media like to stir things up.
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#30
Quote by Alix_D
That regardless of how you dress it up, it's still murder.

And also that no matter how much they'd deserve it, killing three scumbags like that would make you a worse 'murderer' than them because you've pre-planned it and there's three of them.

That's what I thought you were getting at.

How about in times of war? Is it murder when one soldier kills another?
#31
Quote by Alix_D
That regardless of how you dress it up, it's still murder.

And also that no matter how much they'd deserve it, killing three scumbags like that would make you a worse 'murderer' than them because you've pre-planned it and there's three of them.


You misunderstand.

It's a bit deeper than being labelled as something. I wouldn't care if I was labelled as Satan himself if it meant getting justice.
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#32
Yes, it's one person killing another, however, that is a whole different kettle of fish.

Quote by Chex
You misunderstand.

It's a bit deeper than being labelled as something. I wouldn't care if I was labelled as Satan himself if it meant getting justice.


I understand you competely.

In fact, you say why yourself, you wouldn't care if you're a murderer as long as you kill them, which is kind of my point.

Last edited by Alix_D at Mar 20, 2008,
#33
Quote by gallagher2006
I find it strange that a lower middle class man can beat the crap out of another lower middle class man, and it doesn't make the papers. But as soon as it's found the person on the receiving end is some kind of minority, (in this case Goths) everyone is outraged.

The dirty little secret is that some people are just assholes, and use violence in every available circumstance, and very rarely does it involve a hate towards a minority.

Well, that's what I think anyways =)


You forget that the attackers were all in their teens... which makes the crime more heinous.

Did the lower middle class men beat each other to death?

Seeing as they're from the same socio-economic background, we could assume that the motive would be personal, as opposed to attacking someone just because they look different.
According to BS statistics, 92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you're among the 8% who doesn't consider rap to be real music, donate your brains, as you clearly aren't using them.
#34
That's what I thought you were getting at.

How about in times of war? Is it murder when one soldier kills another?


Id view it as a different matter.When a person joins the military there purpose is made quite clear, that being to kill other people.Both soldiers are concious of there duty and acept that they may have to die for there country if needs be.
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#35
Quote by Alix_D
Yes, it's one person killing another, however, that is a whole different kettle of fish.

So you don't believe murder has anything to do with morality or innocence?

How about animals or natural disasters? Are they guilty of murder?

Quote by Fiddelers elbow
Id view it as a different matter.When a person joins the military there purpose is made quite clear, that being to kill other people.Both soldiers are concious of there duty and acept that they may have to die for there country if needs be.

You don't think that when one person murders another, they consciously give up their human rights?
#36
Quote by denizenz
So you don't believe murder has anything to do with morality or innocence?

How about animals or natural disasters? Are they guilty of murder?



I do, but the crux of it is killing another person is killing another person.

How can a natural disaster be guilty of murder?
#37
Quote by Alix_D
I do, but the crux of it is killing another person is killing another person.

How can a natural disaster be guilty of murder?

Because you seem to think that any time someone dies a murder is committed regardless of intent or innocence.


Murder is generally distinguished from other forms of homicide by the elements of malice aforethought and the lack of lawful justification.

Dictionary:
murder
(mûr'dər) pronunciation

n.

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.
#38
Quote by denizenz
Because you seem to think that any time someone dies a murder is committed regardless of intent or innocence.




If someone is killed by a person, yes.


Dictionary:
murder
(mûr'dər) pronunciation

n.

1. The unlawful killing of one human by another, especially with premeditated malice.

Let me know when they make murder legal in America and you'll be correct.
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