Poll: Do you support this notion!
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View poll results: Do you support this notion!
Yes!
20 65%
No!
24 77%
Voters: 31.
#1
Do you think the term 'Musician' requires expanding to accommodate for the wide variety of different skills, talent and dedication present amongst musicians?

I've been tossing around the thought that if I were to start creating music would it be fair if I got labeled a musician the same way as, say, Yamantaka Eye or John Zorn are? These are guys who have spent many years expanding and redefining the boundaries of music and will be remembered for many years to come, and there I would be with little to no contribution to music claiming to be the same thing as them.

Again, ask yourself if it's fair that hack artists like Trent Reznor and Maynard James Keenan get classified the same as the likes of Brian Eno and Aaron Funk?

Lets compare this to golf.

Many people play golf.

Lots of people aren't very good at golf and are more than happy to consider themselves casual golfers.

There are those who take it more seriously and dedicate their life to golf, but aren't in the top league and hence are classified as amateur golfers. Then you have the elite who are considered pros.

Could this be adapted to music?

The artists who are in it just for a bit of a muck around and fun could be classified as casual musicians, those who dedicate their life to it but aren't very good, such as Dream Theater and Nile, can be considered Amateur Musicians, and the very best can be considered Pros.

This would also go a long way to helping the general public avoid accidentally buying albums from casual artists such as Avril Lavigne and The Mars Volta.

What are UG's thoughts towards this?
#2
Quote by teegman
The artists who are in it just for a bit of a muck around and fun could be classified as casual musicians, those who dedicate their life to it but aren't very good, such as Dream Theater and Nile, can be considered Amateur Musicians, and the very best can be considered Pros.

Joke, it's gotta be.
#5
Being a musician means you make music, that's all it is.

Dumbass.
"Music is an expression. Not competition." ~ Woe, Is Me

Guitar
ESP LTD Viper 400

Amp
Orange Crush 35LDX
#6
I do kind of agree with you, but at the same time it's sort of true. You have popular bands and unpoopular bands, the more anal musicians or music fans generally avoid the popular stuff and the more obscure the 'better' or 'more technical' in their eyes.
#7
I have got to say that teegman is one of the better trolls I've seen on UG. Far better than that xbleedingheartsx guy or whatever.
I'LL PUNCH A DONKEY IN THE STREETS OF GALWAY
#8
Quote by Thebiz
Being a musician means you make music, that's all it is.


I'd disagree there. I make music. Predominantly with a guitar, sometimes on Fruity Loops, and I wouldn't say I'm a musician.

I am a guitarist who dabbles with electronic music. To me, a musician is somebody who understands music, knows theory and can compose a piece with many different harmonies and melodies without having anything but pen and paper.
#9
Quote by whalepudding
I have got to say that teegman is one of the better trolls I've seen on UG.


UG seems to get a reasonably high standard of troll.

Butter than any other forum I've been on.
#10
If I throw a bucket of paint at a wall, I have painted something. To describe me in relation to this act would be to call me a painter. Picasso was a painter, and 7-year-olds in art class are painters.

Elitism in descriptions of occupation doesn't work very well.
#12
Quote by blue_strat

Elitism in descriptions of occupation doesn't work very well.


How so?

Many, many occupations have junior and senior classifications based upon level of experience and expertise of the worker, and that works extremely well.

Could it just be that musicians are too precious and sensitive for this to work?
#14
*gets popcorn and lawn chair and prepares for epic flame fests*
According to BS statistics, 92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you're among the 8% who doesn't consider rap to be real music, donate your brains, as you clearly aren't using them.
#15
Quote by teegman
How so?

Many, many occupations have junior and senior classifications based upon level of experience and expertise of the worker, and that works extremely well.

Could it just be that musicians are too precious and sensitive for this to work?

no, but it could be something to do with the fact that whether music is good or not is largely a subjective opinion. all you have to do is look at golf scores to see who's better, with music it's not as simple since there are both technical and artistic sides to it.

anyway, i think you're just trying to pick fights with prog rock fans. omar rodriguez-lopez is a better musician than you'll ever be and that pisses you off so you want to classify him as something below what he actually is.

fag.
#16
Quote by vantage4
no, but it could be something to do with the fact that whether music is good or not is largely a subjective opinion. all you have to do is look at golf scores to see who's better, with music it's not as simple since there are both technical and artistic sides to it.

anyway, i think you're just trying to pick fights with prog rock fans. omar rodriguez-lopez is a better musician than you'll ever be and that pisses you off so you want to classify him as something below what he actually is.

fag.


Hook, line and sinker!
According to BS statistics, 92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you're among the 8% who doesn't consider rap to be real music, donate your brains, as you clearly aren't using them.
#17
Yes, but it would be difficult to group people.
VENUSIAN
FB SC BC TW
Patterns In The Ivy present ethnicity on an intriguing and dedicated level. ~Ambient Exotica
A mesmeric melange of yearning voice, delicate piano and carefully chosen samples. ~Lost Voices
#18
Music is playing in Key, Originality and Brilliance.

Popular Band and Unpopular Bands are all the same,
it's just that for Popular bands, Music is Life.

Oh, There is no such thing as "Good" or "Bad" Music.
Everyone is Different. Therfore, Everyone adapts Differently.
#22
Dream theater....Ametaur!!!!!! WTF! I don't think you realise just how amazing and talented their music is. some of it is music in its most pure form, utilising many genre's to complete a symphony of musical perfection.

I don't think the same theory can be applied to music because music is an art not a sport. Art is debateable, some like it one way, others like it another way. there is no winners or losers, there is no seperate levels of achievment. Sport however does have those seperate level of achievment and it can be determined that player A is better than player B.
Quote by mattvl
Listen to this guy, he's australian. If there are any people out there who know how to handle women it's australians.
#23
Quote by Chadicus
Dream theater....Ametaur!!!!!! WTF! I don't think you realise just how amazing their music is.

I don't think the same theory can be applied to music because music is an art not a sport. Art is debateable, some like it one way, others like it another way. there is no winners or losers, there is no seperate levels of achievment. Sport however does have those seperate level of achievment and it can be determined that player A is better than player B.


Hahaha, thanks for the laughs.
#24
Quote by Chadicus
Dream theater....Ametaur!!!!!! WTF! I don't think you realise just how amazing and talented their music is. some of it is music in its most pure form, utilising many genre's to complete a symphony of musical perfection.

I don't think the same theory can be applied to music because music is an art not a sport. Art is debateable, some like it one way, others like it another way. there is no winners or losers, there is no seperate levels of achievment. Sport however does have those seperate level of achievment and it can be determined that player A is better than player B.


No need to feed the troll. Let the Beastmaster control this freak of nature.


BEGONE YOU INFIDEL!
#25
Quote by Chadicus
Dream theater....Ametaur!!!!!! WTF! I don't think you realise just how amazing and talented their music is. some of it is music in its most pure form, utilising many genre's to complete a symphony of musical perfection.


No, they are a watered down, bastard mix of 70's pop prog, rock and metal.

In the words of a friend of mine:
"Talent = exceptionality. Don't confuse it with learned knowledge."

Dreamtheater are learned musicians but are by no means creative, inspiring, original or talented.

'a symphony of musical perfection'...

lol, grow up and learn to like good music
#26
you're taking words beyond their meaning, don't do that.
Musician means some one who plays music.
Casual player means they are some one who plays as a hobby.
Ameture means they are playing with the hope of one day becoming a pro
Proffesional means that music is your job, it is your main source of income.

and how could you call people like Trent Reznor a hack? He plays at least 3 instruments that I've seen, written a ton of music, and has been a proffesional musician for around 20 years now making millions. That's not being a hack, that being a success. Boy, you need a role model!
Out here you've gotta know where your towel is!
#27
Quote by teegman
No, they are a watered down, bastard mix of 70's pop prog, rock and metal.

In the words of a friend of mine:
"Talent = exceptionality. Don't confuse it with learned knowledge."

Dreamtheater are learned musicians but are by no means creative, inspiring, original or talented.

'a symphony of musical perfection'...

lol, grow up and learn to like good music



that settles it for me, you are just doing this to start a flame fest, get a life.
good day.... I said good day!
Out here you've gotta know where your towel is!
#28
Quote by Time Seller
+ a million.


And Dream Theater > TS. So STFU and GTFO.


1 John Zorn Album > Entire DT Discography.
#30
Quote by teegman
Dreamtheater are learned musicians but are by no means creative, inspiring, original or talented.



I have to agree with this, im a massive prog rock fan but I just can't stand Dream Theater. Their last album was just awful.
#31
Quote by ValoRhoads
and how could you call people like Trent Reznor a hack? He plays at least 3 instruments that I've seen, written a ton of music, and has been a proffesional musician for around 20 years now making millions. That's not being a hack, that being a success. Boy, you need a role model!


Yeah, because a 40 something pop-synth artist who likes to think he's 'deep' and 'edgy' and writes awesome, insightful lyrics such as:

'Countdown to the end, but make it go faster
Come on down, my friend
It's time to meet your master'

and

'I hope they cannot see.
The limitless potential.
Building inside of me.
To mirror everything.
I hope they cannot see.
I am the great destroyer'

is really someone I need as a role model...
#33
Quote by teegman
Yeah, because a 40 something pop-synth artist who likes to think he's 'deep' and 'edgy' and writes awesome, insightful lyrics such as:

'Countdown to the end, but make it go faster
Come on down, my friend
It's time to meet your master'

and

'I hope they cannot see.
The limitless potential.
Building inside of me.
To mirror everything.
I hope they cannot see.
I am the great destroyer'

is really someone I need as a role model...


Why not? You seem to want to be edgy from arguing with everyone. He could be perfect for you.
"Music is an expression. Not competition." ~ Woe, Is Me

Guitar
ESP LTD Viper 400

Amp
Orange Crush 35LDX
#34
We would certainly need some sort of organization that would classify artists. How do you propose we do that?
#36
Quote by rush4life
We would certainly need some sort of organization that would classify artists. How do you propose we do that?


Easy.
Form a group of the most musically knowledgeable and objective people in the world and let them decide.

I'd put my hand up for the role but my musical knowledge isn't as complete as it would need to be unfortunately.