Page 1 of 2
#1
Okay so recently i've been looking at 2 different guitars from the Rg series by.
The first one was the Ibanez RG370 DX, but i don't know about the tremolo and locking system.
So the other one was the Ibanez Rg 321MH, this one is without the locking and tremolo system, which i think will suit me better, but i still want the tremolo arm!

Is there any huge difference between these guitars? Or are they simply the same, minus the Edge II tremolo and string locking?

Which would you choose?

Thanks

-Ergin
#2
i'd go for the rg321, the rg370 has edge III and thats not a good bridge, im prety sur ethey both come with INFI 1 and 2 so, yes they are essentially the same guitar with one being fixed bridge.
Quote by Mathamology
One day that guy is gonna lose a whole arm to that blender

and that shall be the day I laugh the hardest
#3
Quote by Ergin
Okay so recently i've been looking at 2 different guitars from the Rg series by.
The first one was the Ibanez RG370 DX, but i don't know about the tremolo and locking system.
So the other one was the Ibanez Rg 321MH, this one is without the locking and tremolo system, which i think will suit me better, but i still want the tremolo arm!

Is there any huge difference between these guitars? Or are they simply the same, minus the Edge II tremolo and string locking?

Which would you choose?

Thanks

-Ergin


you have to ask yourself what you want more. Trem or no trem
#4
yep. it's really a matter of how bad you want the trem. it's not all that great (i have an RG370DX), and for like the first six months you can't get the thing to stay in tune. i finally ended up blocking mine so it can go down but not up, and it stays in tune wonderfully now.
See above post ^
#5
Whay kind of problems may i come by if i go for the trem? And what would be different from a guitar without one? Tuning, string changing etc.
#6
Am i supposed to cut off the ball end of the string to lock it into the bridge like on a Floyd Rose when i change strings? And how do i tune it?
#9
Quote by rrhoads47
go with the S series not the RG series


I was in the same position. they're about the same price and their tremolos are works of art. The ZR is amazing - stable and oh-so-smooth. Price comparison:
RG350 (similar to your choice): £300
S470: £320

I think i made the right choice - LOVE my Ibanez!

Rob

Edit: the reason for choosing the ZR over the Edge III is clear: the Edge III is made from cheap materials. The knife edge that the trem floats on is subject to great tension from the strings, and cheap materials blunt easily. And blunt knife edges hardly help your tuning stability. After roughly a month of trem usage, you'd end up blocking an Edge III anyway.
The ZR, on the other hand, 'floats' on a pair of ball-bearing pivots. These do not wear out over time, and can be oiled if they start to stiffen. The ZR also has a stopbar to catch the tremolo and ensure it always hits its Zero Point, so the strings always slide back into tune. Plus, adjusting it is a breeze - most of it is done with thumbscrews, and the setup is simple. Seriously, consider an S-series.

Ibanez S470
Laney HCM30R
Digitech GNX3000
Last edited by quantum leap at Mar 20, 2008,
#10
Quote by Ergin
Am i supposed to cut off the ball end of the string to lock it into the bridge like on a Floyd Rose when i change strings? And how do i tune it?


The Edge and ZR are essentially Floyds, but with tweaked designs. Yes, you need to lock the strings at both ends (neck and bridge), but you can thread them from reverse and leave the ball ends at the headstock, making things easier for you to restring. Tuning is done with normal tuners - you unscrew the locking nut and tune up, but with floating bridges there are extra steps involved - see the Sticky. Otherwise, you can use the fine tuners on the bridge to nudge it into tune.

Rob

Ibanez S470
Laney HCM30R
Digitech GNX3000
#11
K thanks dude for the usefull information

btw: Is the S470 good for metal?
Last edited by Ergin at Mar 20, 2008,
#12
^oh definitely.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#13
Just one question, since i've only been playing on a cheap strat copy.. How the hell do i tune a floyd if i get one? Do i just loosen the things where the nut is and tune it?
And what happens if i restring it by taking them all of at once? And why is it so important to put a piece of wood under the bridge while doing this? And what do i use to unscrew and screw the stuff you have to loosen and such? Just a normal tool or something thats only for the guitar?

If i get to know these answers, i may finally get rid of my Floydophobia.

Nice syndrom i came up with there
Last edited by Ergin at Mar 20, 2008,
#14
Read up on floyds, there's a thread stickied at the top of the sub-forum.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#16
Quote by Ergin
Yeah i've read it several times but i can't quite get it..



It's hard to explain on paper, but much easier to do.

The guitar comes with a manual, which should get you started.

Tuning any form of floating bridge can be quite boring, but there's no real way around it; you'll eventually develop a feel for it.


Don't worry about it too much.
You've read it, you can't un-read it!
#17
Quote by Bonsaischaap
It's hard to explain on paper, but much easier to do.

The guitar comes with a manual, which should get you started.

Tuning any form of floating bridge can be quite boring, but there's no real way around it; you'll eventually develop a feel for it.


Don't worry about it too much.


Seconded, once you get used to a floating trem, the others pale in comparison.

Next, if you want a quick walkthrough on setting up a Floyd, check out this YouTube video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=P1c-7-VMY_w

Hope this helps you,
Rob

Ibanez S470
Laney HCM30R
Digitech GNX3000
Last edited by quantum leap at Mar 20, 2008,
#18
Thanks, so even tought i've never owned a Floyd, never done anything with it, i should still buy a guitar with and i will just get the feel of it afterwards?

I assume the floating bridge on the Rg 370 is the kinda same deal as a Floyd?
#19
Quote by Ergin
Thanks, so even tought i've never owned a Floyd, never done anything with it, i should still buy a guitar with and i will just get the feel of it afterwards?

I assume the floating bridge on the Rg 370 is the kinda same deal as a Floyd?


Yup, the Edge series is a licensed Floyd design tweaked by Ibanez. The setup's the same. The ZR differs slightly, but all floating bridges follow the Floyd route to some degree.

I bought my S470 having never owned a Floyd - my Strat has a normal tremolo that normally drifts out of tune quite fast (I've worked out that rubbing pencil lead in the nut helps ). I used that for nearly a year, then took the dive and got a ZR. Love it. So simple once you get used to it. Initially, you may encounter hiccups, but don't worry, there are experts on here to help you through buying one. Bet it'd take you less than a month to master a floating trem!

Ibanez S470
Laney HCM30R
Digitech GNX3000
Last edited by quantum leap at Mar 20, 2008,
#20
I say get a RG and swap for OFR. I can't stand my Saber's ZR stiffness and the 22 frets really gets on my nerve since I play a lot of 2 full octave length stuff. But getting a S is smarter than getting RG without modding.
No man is your friend, no man is your enemy, but every man is your teacher.

When he asked for John Myung, John Myung said:"Who the hell is John Myung?"

Proud User of Ibanez, Korg, Rocktron, ENGL
#21
Thanks again mate!

One small question.. Whats about the fine tuners? What are they for? Or the string retainer bar? Or the locking things at the nut?

Man i feel sorry for asking these stupid questions.. Thanks
#22
Go to Gear&Accessory section of the forum. Check the FR setup sticky please.
No man is your friend, no man is your enemy, but every man is your teacher.

When he asked for John Myung, John Myung said:"Who the hell is John Myung?"

Proud User of Ibanez, Korg, Rocktron, ENGL
#23
Quote by Ergin
Thanks again mate!

One small question.. Whats about the fine tuners? What are they for? Or the string retainer bar? Or the locking things at the nut?

Man i feel sorry for asking these stupid questions.. Thanks



String retainer bar: it allows the strings to enter the locking nut at a sharp angle. This is because when the nut is clamped down, the strings go a bit sharp. The bar reduces this.

Fine tuners: when the nut is locked, you can't use the regular tuners. The fine tuners allow for minor adjustments, without having to unlock the nut.

The locking nut: this is the enitre nut at the end of the neck. It has a metal base and pads that are screwed into it. This locks the strings, increasing tuning stability.


These trems are called double locking, that means that the string is locked in two placed: at the nut and at the bridge.

At the bridge, you clamp the end of the string in the saddle. Most bridges require the ball end to be cut off, which isn't much extra work since most people have a pair of pliers lying around anyway, to trim the excess string when done.

At the nut, the pads lock down the string.


The bridge itself is balanced by strings on one side and springs on the other. The springs are there to counter the string tension, allowing the bridge to "float" in the middle.


The bridge is at no point touching the body, but it's resting against two large posts on either side of it.

The (slightly sharp) points of the bridge which rest against these posts are called knife edges. The ZR works slightly different, as the traditional system of posts and knife edges is replaced by a ball bearing.

Here's my (awesome) diagram with some of the parts named:




Here's a pic of the ZR trem which shows the ball bearing a bit:

You've read it, you can't un-read it!
Last edited by Bonsaischaap at Mar 20, 2008,
#24
Quote by Ergin
Thanks again mate!

One small question.. Whats about the fine tuners? What are they for? Or the string retainer bar? Or the locking things at the nut?

Man i feel sorry for asking these stupid questions.. Thanks


No trouble.

The fine tuners are just that - very fine tuning machines mounted directly on the bridge. They let you gently nudge the strings perfectly into tune without unscrewing the locking nut. Also, some have enough travel to let you change between normal and half-flat tuning, for example, or drop-D (only advisable on a ZR, i think!).

The string retainer bar is mounted behind the locking nut on the headstock. It keeps downward pressure on the strings as you tighten the nut, meaning they don't move and destroy your tuning as you lock your newly-tuned strings in place.

The 'locking things at the nut' as you so put it are just that - locking nuts. They clamp the strings to the neck so they cannot move - the FR principle is that the strings are clamped at either end of the guitar and do not move, thus entailing no friction that could detune them.

If you get a guitar with a locking bridge, everything will become clear to you - if you buy it in a shop, they'll be able to demonstrate its use. (If they can't, might be a good idea to go elsewhere ).

Keep us updated on the guitar you get!
Rob

Edit: damn, beaten to the reply!

Ibanez S470
Laney HCM30R
Digitech GNX3000
#25
Thanks guys, awesome! I think i've collected most of the basic knowledge now, thanks to you guys! And the people on youtube that demonstrates..

I've heard that you can put in your string the "reverse way" so the ball end will stop at the tuning knobs so you don't have to cut em off, would this be a good way to do it? Or will it mess stuff up?
#26
Quote by Ergin
Thanks guys, awesome! I think i've collected most of the basic knowledge now, thanks to you guys! And the people on youtube that demonstrates..

I've heard that you can put in your string the "reverse way" so the ball end will stop at the tuning knobs so you don't have to cut em off, would this be a good way to do it? Or will it mess stuff up?



I do it that way, but it doesn't make it a shorter process, it just looks nice.


You'll have to trim some of the string away anyway, so whether you cut off the ball end, or a bit of the other end of the string doesn't really matter. With D'Addario's the headstock just looks a bit more colourful
You've read it, you can't un-read it!
#27
Quote by Ergin
Thanks guys, awesome! I think i've collected most of the basic knowledge now, thanks to you guys! And the people on youtube that demonstrates..

I've heard that you can put in your string the "reverse way" so the ball end will stop at the tuning knobs so you don't have to cut em off, would this be a good way to do it? Or will it mess stuff up?


I do that all the time on my S470. Much easier way to string it. Buy D'Adarrio Strings, which have coloured balls, and you get a nice pattern on your headstock. Tis your choice - either is good.

Rob

Ibanez S470
Laney HCM30R
Digitech GNX3000
#28
I do the reverse way because I had bad experiences with cutting the ball end and inserting it into the OFR. The bass strings kept wanting to come unwounded after a month or so before I switched, and now it lasts until the next stringing.
No man is your friend, no man is your enemy, but every man is your teacher.

When he asked for John Myung, John Myung said:"Who the hell is John Myung?"

Proud User of Ibanez, Korg, Rocktron, ENGL
#29
Hehe thanks for the answers I think i would do it that way as well.
I find it hard to believe how the strings really gets locked by just locking them into the bridge, the strings doesn't get that far into the bridge, but they still seem to stay there, without falling out. I assume if i do it the proper way that shouldn't be a real issue.
#30
Quote by Ergin
Hehe thanks for the answers I think i would do it that way as well.
I find it hard to believe how the strings really gets locked by just locking them into the bridge, the strings doesn't get that far into the bridge, but they still seem to stay there, without falling out. I assume if i do it the proper way that shouldn't be a real issue.



Yes, they are only a short bit in, but using the bolts/nuts on the bridge (see my earlier picture) you can lock them in really tight.
You've read it, you can't un-read it!
#31
Should i lock them real tight, or just tight? I've heard you'll mess it up if you tighten them way too much.
#32
Lock the bridge nuts really tight, but don't overdo the lockers on the neck.
No man is your friend, no man is your enemy, but every man is your teacher.

When he asked for John Myung, John Myung said:"Who the hell is John Myung?"

Proud User of Ibanez, Korg, Rocktron, ENGL
#33
Okay, i'll keep that in mind.

I think im starting to understand the Floyd Rose thing now It will be alot easier to handle it when i hopefully get a new guitar soon. Hehe i've allways tried to issolate myself from Floyd Rose, no matter how good they were, i've allways been like: Awesome guitar! But **** it got a FR, i'll just forget it" I know it sounds kinda silly.
#34
Quote by Ergin
Okay, i'll keep that in mind.

I think im starting to understand the Floyd Rose thing now It will be alot easier to handle it when i hopefully get a new guitar soon. Hehe i've allways tried to issolate myself from Floyd Rose, no matter how good they were, i've allways been like: Awesome guitar! But **** it got a FR, i'll just forget it" I know it sounds kinda silly.



Many people are like that, including me. Unfortunately, most of the guitars I really like are released with them, resulting in me having four of them...

FR bridges aren't hard to understand and as soon as you have one in front of you, you'll start to understand how it works quite quickly.
You've read it, you can't un-read it!
#35
Glad im not the only one

You guys have been great, please provide me with more information if you come by something that may be kinda important to know!
#36
Looks like we've covered all the basics in this thread. Let us know what guitar you decide to go with!

Ibanez S470
Laney HCM30R
Digitech GNX3000
#37
I have both guitars and love playing the RG321MH! My RG370DX will continue to hang there untill my OFR comes in!
#38
Im still looking everywhere for my next guitar, but now as ive learned some stuff about the FR, i feel like there are alot new guitars that has come to my mind.

Which guitar is better of these two? Ibanez RG370 DX, or Jackson DK2?
#39
Quote by Ergin
Im still looking everywhere for my next guitar, but now as ive learned some stuff about the FR, i feel like there are alot new guitars that has come to my mind.

Which guitar is better of these two? Ibanez RG370 DX, or Jackson DK2?



In terms of playability, I reckon their equal.


The problem lies in the trems.


If you look at one of my earlier posts, I mentioned knife edges. These things have a tendency to wear. On more expensive, quality, trems (like the OFR, Edge Pro, ZR and certain LFR's) these are made of hard metals, meaning they will wear down slowly.


On cheaper trems like those found on a lot of guitars within your budget, the knife edges are a bit softer.

This means the trem will work fine, but wear out quicker.


When a trem is worn out, it loses the ability to return to pitch properly, resulting in you being incredibly pissed off.


Keeping that in mind, there's a reason that the S320 with the ZR was mentioned, as it has a good trem.


If you're not interested in that one, I'd suggest the used market as for instance a nice Japanese, high end trem sporting, RG5XX and up can be found at a reasonable price.


With this in mind both the Jackson and the Ibanez you mentioned are nice guitars, but you may run into trouble later on when the trem decides to crap out on you.
You've read it, you can't un-read it!
#40
Okay dude, thanks for answering. How long would it take for them to start wearing out? Are we talking about months, years? I would love to know a metal guitar with a "decent" trem that i could buy.
Page 1 of 2