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#1
Okay, how do different modes have different feelings? if A Aeolian, C Ionian and D Dorian all have the same notes, how do they have different "feels", it doesn't make any sense to me. Im good with modes, but I dont understand this.

I know that if you were to ascend the different modes it will have a different feel, but since you dont have to strictly start of the first note of the mode, and dont necessarily have to ascent straight up the scale, I dont see why you can say that the Ionian mode gives you a hapy feel, when you can use a minor scale that contains the same notes.
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#2
Because the modality of a piece is determined by the chording underneath. Play around with it: try recording a few different chords, just loop them and play the modes of the C major scale over them. Try something like:

C major
Dm7
Emsusb9
Fmaj7#11

and so on. Not in one progression because it would sound awful; just strum the one chord using any rhythm you'd like, record, loop it and play over it using the notes of the C major scale.
#4
what does that have t do with he feels though?

edit: directed toward first reponse
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#5
bangoodcharlote, can you elaborate?
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#6
Quote by sacamano79
what does that have t do with he feels though?

edit: directed toward first reponse


Even though the notes are the same for the 7 modes of a given major scale, the chording and use of the specific mode highlight the different intervals used to construct the scales. Take C Ionian vs. E Phrygian: you have 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 vs. 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7. The different intervals combined with specific chords will create a certain feel.
#7
Quote by sacamano79
bangoodcharlote, can you elaborate?
If you have a Dm7 G7 vamp doing, that implies the D Dorian mode. You would play D Dorian over that, not C Ionian, not F Lydian. Yes, those two scales contain the same notes as D Dorian, but they are absolutely not the same. The latter two have roots of C and F while D Dorian's root is obviously D. The relative modes are not interchangable; you do not play E Phrygian over a D Dorian progression.

This is poorly explained, but I'll let you read through that and figure out your next question. And please do ask a question if you don't get it. I cannot respond to "I don't get it." I can respond to "so if I play the 12 position 'E Phrygian scale' over your vamp, is it D Dorian?" By the way, it is, and I can explain that in a later post.

One question: You don't consider a mode to be a fingering, pattern, or box, do you? You get that every scale covers the entire fretboard, right?
#8
f A Aeolian, C Ionian and D Dorian all have the same notes, how do they have different "feels"


They have different feels because they are completely different. D dorian is a D minor scale with a raised sixth, whereas A minor is...an A minor scale. Read the theory sticky.
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#9
Quote by bangoodcharlote
If you have a Dm7 G7 vamp doing, that implies the D Dorian mode. You would play D Dorian over that, not C Ionian, not F Lydian. Yes, those two scales contain the same notes as D Dorian, but they are absolutely not the same. The latter two have roots of C and F while D Dorian's root is obviously D. The relative modes are not interchangable; you do not play E Phrygian over a D Dorian progression.

This is poorly explained, but I'll let you read through that and figure out your next question. And please do ask a question if you don't get it. I cannot respond to "I don't get it." I can respond to "so if I play the 12 position 'E Phrygian scale' over your vamp, is it D Dorian?" By the way, it is, and I can explain that in a later post.

One question: You don't consider a mode to be a fingering, pattern, or box, do you? You get that every scale covers the entire fretboard, right?


To answer your question, yes i know they cover the entire fret board, and I have learned them in box patterns (dont crucify me).

Just because the roots are different notes, why does it matter? Why couldnt i play and E Phrygian over a D Dorian chord progression, what does the root note matter?

isnt you statement
"so if I play the 12 position 'E Phrygian scale' over your vamp, is it D Dorian?" By the way, it is, and I can explain that in a later post.

going against what you said earlier in the post.

On a side note, whenever im reading your messages, I imagine im being lectured on music theory by the janitor from scrubs.

Edit: I guess my question is why doesnt E Phrygian = D Dorian because they have the same notes. If you mapped out all of the notes over the entire fretboard, they would ahve the same notes, so what does it matter which one you play in, and why does it ahve a different feel?
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Last edited by sacamano79 at Mar 21, 2008,
#10
Quote by sacamano79
Okay, how do different modes have different feelings? if A Aeolian, C Ionian and D Dorian all have the same notes, how do they have different "feels", it doesn't make any sense to me. Im good with modes, but I dont understand this.

I know that if you were to ascend the different modes it will have a different feel, but since you dont have to strictly start of the first note of the mode, and dont necessarily have to ascent straight up the scale, I dont see why you can say that the Ionian mode gives you a hapy feel, when you can use a minor scale that contains the same notes.

the simple answer is that while those are in fact the same scale, the C major scale, they sound different when played in different keys.

for example, the D dorian mode will have its feel when played in the key of D. when you play in C it just sounds like playing the C major scale. but when played in D, it sounds different than playing in D major.

or take the A aeolian for example. sounds like C major. but its also A minor. it has a different feel when played over an A minor than when played over a C major. now if you take that A minor chord and play a A dorian over it, it too will have a different feel.

so basically modes are just playing one key over another. so playing the C major scale over a D sounds different than playing the D major scale over that D. so its really about the chords underneath the scale that gives the feel.
#11
I guess my question is why doesnt E Phrygian = D Dorian because they have the same notes. If you mapped out all of the notes over the entire fretboard, they would ahve the same notes, so what does it matter which one you play in, and why does it ahve a different feel?


See my above post and read the theory sticky. You aren't ready to be worrying about modes yet, and they aren't as useful as people think they are. Focus your attention on the major scale and diatonic harmony.


the simple answer is that while those are in fact the same scale, the C major scale, they sound different when played in different keys.

for example, the D dorian mode will have its feel when played in the key of D. when you play in C it just sounds like playing the C major scale. but when played in D, it sounds different than playing in D major.

or take the A aeolian for example. sounds like C major. but its also A minor. it has a different feel when played over an A minor than when played over a C major. now if you take that A minor chord and play a A dorian over it, it too will have a different feel.

so basically modes are just playing one key over another. so playing the C major scale over a D sounds different than playing the D major scale over that D. so its really about the chords underneath the scale that gives the feel.


What? No. They are not the same thing. You are not "playing C major" over a D minor chord, you are playing D dorian. They are completely different.
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#12
Well, the reason you won't hear anybody refer to playing the notes D E F G A B C over Dm7 G7 as playing E Phrygian (for example) is because the modality is determined by the chords. Dm7 G7 is a D Dorian progression, NOT an E Phrygian progression. Even though the notes are the same, you should never interchange names like this because the applications are entirely different. Don't think of the mode as changing according to the root note of the scale, think of the mode as it relates to the chords.

Does that help at all?

EDIT: Blind In 1 Ear: Modal use is not really "playing one key over another", that seems like an odd way of explaining it. I get what your point is but it may confuse the TS a little bit more.
Last edited by :-D at Mar 21, 2008,
#13
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
for example, the D dorian mode will have its feel when played in the key of D. when you play in C it just sounds like playing the C major scale. but when played in D, it sounds different than playing in D major.


how can you play a D dorian in the key of D, isnt that just not a legal move in the world of theory?
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#14
Quote by sacamano79
To answer your question, yes i know they cover the entire fret board, and I have learned them in box patterns (dont crucify me).

Just because the roots are different notes, why does it matter? Why couldnt i play and E Phrygian over a D Dorian chord progression, what does the root note matter?

isnt you statement

going against what you said earlier in the post.

On a side note, whenever im reading your messages, I imagine im being lectured on music theory by the janitor from scrubs.

Edit: I guess my question is why doesnt E Phrygian = D Dorian because they have the same notes. If you mapped out all of the notes over the entire fretboard, they would ahve the same notes, so what does it matter which one you play in, and why does it ahve a different feel?


it is the same really but because of the key you wouldnt really say that you are playing E phrygian. just like if you were playing a progression that is clearly in C major, you wouldnt say to play in G mixolydian. even though its the same scale starting on a different root. it just makes more sense to say C ionian or just C major in that case. and it changes how you think about playing. because the roots are different the way you think about playing changes. you wouldnt play certain phrases because they would sound out of place depending on what they emphasize.
Last edited by Blind In 1 Ear at Mar 21, 2008,
#15
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
it is the same really but because of the key you wouldnt really say that you are playing E phrygian. just like if you were playing a progression that is clearly in C major, you wouldnt say to play in G mixolydian. even though its the same scale starting on a different root. it just makes more sense to say C ionian or just C major in that case.


They are completely different. G mixolydian is a G major scale with a flatted 7th. You don't say you're playing in C major because it's somehow easier than saying G mixolydian, you say you're playing in C major because C major and G mixolydian are completely different.
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#16
Quote by Archeo Avis
They are completely different. G mixolydian is a G major scale with a flatted 7th. You don't say you're playing in C major because it's somehow easier than saying G mixolydian, you say you're playing in C major because C major and G mixolydian are completely different.


For the love of God, listen to this man.
#17
Quote by Archeo Avis
They are completely different. G mixolydian is a G major scale with a flatted 7th. You don't say you're playing in C major because it's somehow easier than saying G mixolydian, you say you're playing in C major because C major and G mixolydian are completely different.

when playing over a C major, no they are not. i edited my post to say it changes how you think of phrasing. which is what i ment to say by saying its easier to say C ionian. its easier because then you have a better idea of what to play. but i could go and play in the G mixolydian "shape" and still sound in key as long as i think of my phrasing in context of C ionian.
#18
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
when playing over a C major, no they are not. i edited my post to say it changes how you think of phrasing. which is what i ment to say by saying its easier to say C ionian. its easier because then you have a better idea of what to play. but i could go and play in the G mixolydian "shape" and still sound in key as long as i think of my phrasing in context of C ionian.


There is no G mixolydian shape. Modes are not box shapes.
They are completely different. Always. You are not playing G mixolydian over a C major chord.
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#19
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
when playing over a C major, no they are not. i edited my post to say it changes how you think of phrasing. which is what i ment to say by saying its easier to say C ionian. its easier because then you have a better idea of what to play. but i could go and play in the G mixolydian "shape" and still sound in key as long as i think of my phrasing in context of C ionian.


They are still entirely different. The mode is not a "shape", don't think of it that way. Again, the chords determine modality. Because of this, if you have a C Ionian (like a simple C F G)progression and you play the notes C, D, E, F, G, A and B then you are playing C Ionian. You will not be in G Mixolydian unless suggested by the chords.
#20
Quote by Archeo Avis
There is no G mixolydian shape. Modes are not box shapes.
They are completely different. Always. You are not playing G mixolydian over a C major chord.

yes there is. when you start a C major scale from the G note, thats the mixolydian. your making things more complicated than they need to be. the modes are basically the different positions of the major scale. when you start the scale from a different root, thats a mode of that major scale. but its still the same scale. the only time they become another "scale" is when comparing them to another key. like you just compared it to the G major scale. but the fact is G mixolydian and C major are enharmonic. meaning they are exactly the same. they are the exact same scale. same notes, same positions. the only thing that changes when you use these terms is your thought process behind your phrasing.

if i tell you to play the G mixolydian over a C major progression, guess what? you are playing the C major scale. but if you think of your playing in the context of playing in G, then it will sound a little off. if you think of the G mixolydian as the C ionian, your phrasing changes and sounds more in place.
#21
They are still entirely different. The mode is not a "shape", don't think of it that way. Again, the chords determine modality. Because of this, if you have a C Ionian (like a simple C F G)progression and you play the notes C, D, E, F, G, A and B then you are playing C Ionian. You will not be in G Mixolydian unless suggested by the chords.

...thats exactly what im saying actually. im talking about context and the chords. the actual scale itself isnt different from C ionian. its the same notes and positioning on the fretboard. but the chords change the context in which you play. so even though you are playing the same scale, it sounds different because of the chords and your phrasing over those chords.
#22
They are still entirely different. The mode is not a "shape", don't think of it that way. Again, the chords determine modality. Because of this, if you have a C Ionian (like a simple C F G)progression and you play the notes C, D, E, F, G, A and B then you are playing C Ionian. You will not be in G Mixolydian unless suggested by the chords.

So, if I am playing the the key of C, Why does it matter which mode (C Ionian D Dorian E Phrygian etc...) you play in because they all have the same notes. If you map them all out across the fret board, they all overlap, so calling the modes different, isnt it just semantics?
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#23
when you start a C major scale from the G note, thats the mixolydian.


Not if the tonal center is C, no. The chords determine the mode. You can play the notes in any order you want, starting on any note you want, and it won't change the mode you're using.

but the fact is G mixolydian and C major are enharmonic. meaning they are exactly the same. they are the exact same scale. same notes, same positions. the only thing that changes when you use these terms is your thought process behind your phrasing.


That's not what enharmonic means. They are not same.
C major is a scale built off of C consisting of the intervals of a major second, a major third, a perfect fourth, a perfect fifth, a major sixth, and a major seventh.
E phrygian is a scale built off of E containing the intervals of a minor second, a minor third, a perfect fourth, a perfect fifth, a minor sixth, and a minor seventh.

Everything is different. The backing chords are different. The intervals are different. The root note is different.

So, if I am playing the the key of C, Why does it matter which mode (C Ionian D Dorian E Phrygian etc...) you play in because they all have the same notes. If you map them all out across the fret board, they all overlap, so calling the modes different, isnt it just semantics?


No, they are completely different. You aren't ready for modes yet. Read the theory sticky and study the major scale.
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#24
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
yes there is. when you start a C major scale from the G note, thats the mixolydian. your making things more complicated than they need to be. the modes are basically the different positions of the major scale. when you start the scale from a different root, thats a mode of that major scale. but its still the same scale. the only time they become another "scale" is when comparing them to another key. like you just compared it to the G major scale. but the fact is G mixolydian and C major are enharmonic. meaning they are exactly the same. they are the exact same scale. same notes, same positions. the only thing that changes when you use these terms is your thought process behind your phrasing.

if i tell you to play the G mixolydian over a C major progression, guess what? you are playing the C major scale. but if you think of your playing in the context of playing in G, then it will sound a little off. if you think of the G mixolydian as the C ionian, your phrasing changes and sounds more in place.


So by your definition, C Eb G and C D# G are the same chord because the two notes are enharmonic. You're really not right here. Modes are not positions, they are re-orderings of an original scale that are played over SPECIFIC chords. You can play the C major scale any way you'd like over a C F G progression and you're still in C Ionian. No matter what root note you begin with, you're in C Ionian because the chord progression suggests it. You haven't learned the theory behind the modes apparently, so do not tell Archeo he's overcomplicating it. People tell him this on a daily basis because they don't know that modes aren't box shapes. He's not overcomplicating it. You're wrong.
#25
Quote by :-D
He's not overcomplicating it. You're wrong.


The world of music theory is a vicious, vicious place
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#26
Quote by sacamano79
The world of music theory is a vicious, vicious place


It absolutely is. Did you ever get your original question answered? I'd still be happy to help if anything's unclear.
#27
Quote by :-D
So by your definition, C Eb G and C D# G are the same chord because the two notes are enharmonic. You're really not right here. Modes are not positions, they are re-orderings of an original scale that are played over SPECIFIC chords. You can play the C major scale any way you'd like over a C F G progression and you're still in C Ionian. No matter what root note you begin with, you're in C Ionian because the chord progression suggests it. You haven't learned the theory behind the modes apparently, so do not tell Archeo he's overcomplicating it. People tell him this on a daily basis because they don't know that modes aren't box shapes. He's not overcomplicating it. You're wrong.

lol i know modes arent box shapes. i just gave an example involving a position of the C major scale starting on the G.

and again, this is what im saying! i already said its the chords that determine the context of how you play. but i dont think of the G mixolydian as a different scale than the C ionian because they contain all the same notes. the only thing that is different is the chords i play them over. if i didnt have any chords it would just sound like im playing the same scale. so because of that i think it makes more sense to think of it as playing the C major scale over a G progression. why would i think of it as two different scales when its all the same notes? who cares what you call it. its the same notes just played over different chords. thats what gives the different feel.

so they are only different when compared to other major scales. when compared to D major, yes D dorian is not the same. but thats because you are actually comparing the C major scale to the D major scale. i dunno but thats how i think of it and i have no trouble understanding modes. i always hear people complain its so hard to understand and when i hear some of the responses here i see why. it jsut seems so complicated imo to think of them all as their own special, different scales even though they have the same notes as another scale.
#28
if i didnt have any chords it would just sound like im playing the same scale.


Because you are. Modes are harmonically weak. Without any context, you are either playing C major or A minor (which aren't the same thing)

so because of that i think it makes more sense to think of it as playing the C major scale over a G progression.


It's not. Words have definitions for a reason. If the progression resolves to G, you are not playing C major, and clearly think that scales are box shapes.

but thats because you are actually comparing the C major scale to the D major scale


No, you aren't. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you need to shut up. D dorian is not C major, it is (depending on how you view it) a D minor scale with a raised sixth, or a D major scale with a flatted third and seventh.

i dunno but thats how i think of it and i have no trouble understanding modes.


You don't understand them at all.

i always hear people complain its so hard to understand and when i hear some of the responses here i see why.it jsut seems so complicated imo to think of them all as their own special, different scales even though they have the same notes as another scale.


They're confused because people like you lie to them and make them think they can play D dorian over a C major progression. It doesn't work that way. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you need to stop spreading misinformation.
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#29
What I'm saying here is that each mode is still a different scale because of the intervals. Just have a look:

Ionian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Dorian: 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
Phrygian: 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Lydian: 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7
Mixolydian: 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
Aeolian: 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
Locrian: 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7

That's why they're different scales. It's not just about the notes, but the intervals as well. In addition, the different applications for each mode is also what makes them unique.

EDIT: This is obviously directed at Blind In 1 Ear, not Archeo.
Last edited by :-D at Mar 21, 2008,
#30
Quote by Archeo Avis
Not if the tonal center is C, no. The chords determine the mode. You can play the notes in any order you want, starting on any note you want, and it won't change the mode you're using.

again, thats what im saying. the chords determine the feel of that scale. but if i were to just play alone and play the C major scale starting on G, its considered the G mixolydian. i dont know why you argued that point seeing as you are the one saying they are different scales. my point is that they contain the same notes so i dont see the point in thinking of them as different scales. all you are really doing is playing the same scale over different keys. when you do that, it has a different sound. you would also want to change how you think about phrasing because you are in fact in a different key. its like how playing in C# minor is the same as playing in Emajor. but you dont think about phrasing in the same way even though they are the same notes.

That's not what enharmonic means. They are not same.
C major is a scale built off of C consisting of the intervals of a major second, a major third, a perfect fourth, a perfect fifth, a major sixth, and a major seventh.
E phrygian is a scale built off of E containing the intervals of a minor second, a minor third, a perfect fourth, a perfect fifth, a minor sixth, and a minor seventh.

enharmonic means they sound the same. so they are the same notes. and you are comparing the E phrygian to the key of E, not C. if you compared it to C, it would be all the same intervals. it sounds the same when played by itself and not over any chords.
#31
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
I say I understand your point, but I don't. I'm simply refusing to admit that my view on modes is entirely wrong! I really don't seem to get this!


There, that's better.

If you have no chordal accompaniment and play a C major scale starting on G, you're playing a C major scale starting on G and not G Mixolydian. At all. Diatonic harmony is harmonically strong, modes are not; unless the chords suggested G Mixolydian, you're not playing it.

EDIT: Enharmonic means there are two notes referring to the same pitch, not just that "they sound the same".
#32
Quote by Blind In 1 Ear
again, thats what im saying. the chords determine the feel of that scale. but if i were to just play alone and play the C major scale starting on G, its considered the G mixolydian. i dont know why you argued that point seeing as you are the one saying they are different scales. my point is that they contain the same notes so i dont see the point in thinking of them as different scales. all you are really doing is playing the same scale over different keys. when you do that, it has a different sound. you would also want to change how you think about phrasing because you are in fact in a different key. its like how playing in C# minor is the same as playing in Emajor. but you dont think about phrasing in the same way even though they are the same notes.


enharmonic means they sound the same. so they are the same notes. and you are comparing the E phrygian to the key of E, not C. if you compared it to C, it would be all the same intervals. it sounds the same when played by itself and not over any chords.


I'm getting very ****ing sick of this. You have no idea what you're talking about, and I'm going to explain this one more time before leaving you alone with your stupidity.

If you play the C major scale along starting on G, you are playing C major. If you want to play G mixolydian, you need to establish G as the tonal center. The fact that they contain the same notes is completely irrelevant because they have completely different tonal centers and completely different intervals. C# Minor is not the same as E major, and the different has absolutely nothing to with phrasing. It is different because C# minor has a flatted third, sixth, and seventh compared to the major scale. ANY major scale.

What key you compare E phrygian to is irrelevant. Phrygian has a flatted second, third, sixth, and seventh compared to ANY major scale. Those are the intervals that define the phrygian mode. Phrygian is a minor scale with a flatted second, not a box shape.

You need to shut up, and a moderator needs to destroy this thread so that no one reads your posts and mistakenly thinks you know what you're talking about.

I expect a large dose of flaming if this is not correct:
G mixolydian and C Ionian contain the same notes and chords, right?


Yes, but they are used in completely different situation and are not interchangeable. They are not the same scale.
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#33
Quote by sacamano79
I expect a large dose of flaming if this is not correct:
G mixolydian and C Ionian contain the same notes and chords, right?


They contain the same notes (C, D, E, F, G, A, B) but are applied over different chords. Don't expect flaming for the question; you're not going around attempting to convince people that they are wrong about modes. Asking a question is absolutely fine.
#34
So is it wrong to think that a mode is starting from a degree of the major scale other than the first?. ie: G mixolydian is just C Ionian starting from the 5th degree?
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#35
Quote by Archeo Avis
Because you are. Modes are harmonically weak. Without any context, you are either playing C major or A minor (which aren't the same thing)

ok....again, exactly what ive been saying. you are just playing the same scale over a different key. i dont see whats so hard to get here.

It's not. Words have definitions for a reason. If the progression resolves to G, you are not playing C major, and clearly think that scales are box shapes.

you dont seem to understand what im saying here. if the progression is in G, then yea you are playing in G. and if you play the C major scale over that, we get what we call the mixolydian. but the G mixolydian is only different compared to the key of G. its still the C major scale. but because its over a different key and progression, thats what gives it a whole new feel. its like if i played the G harmonic minor scale over say D major. we COULD give it another name and compare it to the key of D. but when it comes down to it, all im doing is playing the G harmonic minor scale over another key. and because of that, it now has a new sound and feel. but it isnt a different scale.

No, you aren't. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you need to shut up. D dorian is not C major, it is (depending on how you view it) a D minor scale with a raised sixth, or a D major scale with a flatted third and seventh.

LOL! they have the same notes! its the same scale just played over another key. you said it yourself that modes depend on the progression under it. if i just playing the C major scale up and down and someone else played different progressions, it would sound as if im playing different modes but all im doing is playing the SAME SCALE. but because they are over different keys, they sound different because they are different compared to the scale for that key.

You don't understand them at all.

and yet, i use them all the time and know when too.....

i just think of it different.


They're confused because people like you lie to them and make them think they can play D dorian over a C major progression. It doesn't work that way. You have no idea what you're talking about, and you need to stop spreading misinformation.

i just ment if you played out all the intervals of the D dorian over a C major progression, it would sound in key. but the progression changes how you think about playing. i want my playing to resolve properly in the key of C and therfor i think of it as C ionian. so when im in D i dont think of it as playing the C scale(although it is), i think of it as D dorian because that way my phrasing better suits the progression.
#36
Quote by :-D
If you have no chordal accompaniment and play a C major scale starting on G, you're playing a C major scale starting on G and not G Mixolydian.
Eh, I don't completely agree with this. Without accompaniment, you can use your phrasing to make the scale be G Mixo or D Dorian or whatever. You'll agree that you could at least make a C major scale be A minor, right? So you can extend that to all the mode.

Of course, when you have accompaniment, the chord determine the mode, not the phrasing.


Blind, Arch is right on this. While C major and D Dorian contain the same notes, they are not the same. However, if you use your C major patterns over a Dm chord, those patterns become D Dorian since the root is shifted to D.
#37
Quote by sacamano79
So is it wrong to think that a mode is starting from a degree of the major scale. ie: G mixolydian is just C Ionian starting from the 5th degree?


It's not "just" C major starting from another degree, but it is helpful to understand a modes relationship to its other relative modes.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#38
Quote by Archeo Avis
It's not "just" C major starting from another degree, but it is helpful to understand a modes relationship to its other relative modes.
You have to understand how modes are derived from other scales, but you also have to understand that modes are independent of the parent scales, as well. You would play C Ionian over C F C G7, but you would play D Dorian over Dm7 G7. Yes, the two scales contain the same notes, but their uses are obviously different.
#39
Quote by :-D
There, that's better.

If you have no chordal accompaniment and play a C major scale starting on G, you're playing a C major scale starting on G and not G Mixolydian. At all. Diatonic harmony is harmonically strong, modes are not; unless the chords suggested G Mixolydian, you're not playing it.

EDIT: Enharmonic means there are two notes referring to the same pitch, not just that "they sound the same".

...again.....THATS WHAT IM SAYING. maybe im saying too many things and confusing my ideas but thats exactly what im saying. they are the same scale because all that changes is the progression. lol. the notes dont change and the intervals never change.
#40
you dont seem to understand what im saying here. if the progression is in G, then yea you are playing in G. and if you play the C major scale over that, we get what we call the mixolydian. but the G mixolydian is only different compared to the key of G. its still the C major scale. but because its over a different key and progression, thats what gives it a whole new feel. its like if i played the G harmonic minor scale over say D major. we COULD give it another name and compare it to the key of D. but when it comes down to it, all im doing is playing the G harmonic minor scale over another key. and because of that, it now has a new sound and feel. but it isnt a different scale.


Keys have nothing to do with it. Modal music predates the concept of "key" by centuries. Modes are not played in keys.

and the intervals never change.


Yes, they do.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
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