#1
7sus4 is 1 4 5 b7

It can't be maj7sus4 because that is just contradicting itself.

Maybe sus4add7?

Or am I completely missing something completely obvious here?

Chord I'm trying to name is this:


--2--
--1--
--0--
--0--
-----
-----


Or is that just a Dmaj7add4?

Regardless of the above chord, I'd kinda like to know the answer on what a 1 4 5 7 would be called.
#2
I think that 1 4 5 b7 would be a min7sus4. As for 1 4 5 7 that would be a 7sus4.
Ka pu te ruha ka hao te rangatahi.
#5
Quote by Taydr
I think that 1 4 5 b7 would be a min7sus4. As for 1 4 5 7 that would be a 7sus4.


No, "7" implies a b7.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#6
Quote by :-D
I'd call the actual written chord up there (D, G, C, F#) a D7add4.

As for the 1 4 5 7 construction, I'd refer to it as an X7sus4.

If it was a D7add4 the notes would be D, G, C#, F#. As it also doesn't have a third "add4" seems to be incorect to me as the chord is sustaining the 4th not adding it. So I make it Dmin7sus4.
Ka pu te ruha ka hao te rangatahi.
#7
Quote by :-D
I'd call the actual written chord up there (D, G, C, F#) a D7add4.

As for the 1 4 5 7 construction, I'd refer to it as an X7sus4.


Oh crap I missed the dominant 7th. So yeah, D7add4. Thing with 7sus4, the 7 usually means dominant.

Edit:

Archeo covered it.

Taydr: The F# is a major third, not a minor third. Or am I missing something again.
#8
Quote by Taydr
If it was a D7add4 the notes would be D, G, C#, F#. As it also doesn't have a third "add4" seems to be incorect to me as the chord is sustaining the 4th not adding it. So I make it Dmin7sus4.


"min7" would imply a b3.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#9
well the term "add" means without a 7...so, that probably wouldn't work here and if it's a b7, then u cant call it a Major 7, because that's just a 7 degree (no flat). 7sus4 is the correct name here (congrats, u had it right all along!)
#10
Quote by EvilDontSmile
well the term "add" means without a 7...so, that probably wouldn't work here and if it's a b7, then u cant call it a Major 7, because that's just a 7 degree (no flat). 7sus4 is the correct name here (congrats, u had it right all along!)


7sus4 contains the notes 1-4-5-b7.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#11
Quote by Archeo Avis
7sus4 contains the notes 1-4-5-b7.


We're repeating ourselves a lot here....
#12
Taydr: No, having a C# would make it a Dmaj7add4. The construction of a D7 chord is D F# A C, and those are the notes he has (aside from the 5th which is tonally irrelevant) in addition to the fourth, G. A min7 would contain an F, not an F#. The F# on the high E serves as the third, so there is a third in the chord.
#13
Quote by Archeo Avis
"min7" would imply a b3.

I shall concede the point to you here and go read up on chord construction a bit.

Edit To :-D, yeah I realise that now. I need to revise chord construction some, so I don't make equally silly mistakes in future.
Ka pu te ruha ka hao te rangatahi.
Last edited by Taydr at Mar 23, 2008,
#14
Quote by Taydr
I shall concede the point to you here and go read up on chord construction a bit.


Get out of my thread please. I want my question answered, not cluttered up.

Edit: Sorry read that wrong.
#15
Quote by Taydr
I shall concede the point to you here and go read up on chord construction a bit.


Read my above post, it may clarify something for you.
#16
yea...wait, are we naming the chord with a flat 7 or just a 7? If it's 1-4-5-b7, then the chord name would be 7sus4, if it's 1-4-5-7, then the chord name would be Ma7sus4
#17
Quote by EvilDontSmile
yea...wait, are we naming the chord with a flat 7 or just a 7? If it's 1-4-5-b7, then the chord name would be 7sus4, if it's 1-4-5-7, then the chord name would be Ma7sus4


The chord he tabbed contains the notes D F# and C, which would imply a dominant seventh chord.
#18
Quote by EvilDontSmile
yea...wait, are we naming the chord with a flat 7 or just a 7? If it's 1-4-5-b7, then the chord name would be 7sus4, if it's 1-4-5-7, then the chord name would be Ma7sus4


But as I originally said, that just contradicts itself. Unless it was Maj7sus4 (no 3rd)?
#20
Quote by :-D
Read my above post, it may clarify something for you.

Yeah, I just wasn't thinking properly. I forgot that if it's not written "Maj7", but simply "7" it implies a b7.
Ka pu te ruha ka hao te rangatahi.
#22
Quote by EvilDontSmile
dude, u've got it haha it's "Maj7sus4"


So the chord implies that there is and there isn't a 3rd?
#23
Quote by Avedas
But as I originally said, that just contradicts itself. Unless it was Maj7sus4 (no 3rd)?


Here's my take: a maj7 chord is built 1, 3, 5, 7. If you don't have the third then the basic foundation is tonally ambiguous; it would be a power chord because you only have the root and the fifth. You'd have a chord built as 1 5 7. Take for example something based off of a C major triad but without the third, such as C G B. In this case I'd personally just called it a G/C, does that make any sense at all?
Last edited by :-D at Mar 23, 2008,
#24
Quote by Avedas
So the chord implies that there is and there isn't a 3rd?

That makes no sense at all as the chord is mising the fifth not the third so I would say that it is a D7add4 (no 5).
Ka pu te ruha ka hao te rangatahi.
#25
Quote by :-D
Here's my take: a maj7 chord is built 1, 3, 5, 7. If you don't have the third then the basic triad is tonally ambiguous; it would be a power chord because you only have the root and the fifth. You'd have a chord built as 1 5 7. Take for example something based off of a C major triad but without the third, such as C G B. In this case I'd personally just called it a G/C, does that make any sense at all?


Sort of. I'm not really sure how split chords work; they seem pretty ambiguous themselves. Also, how would I apply that?

Edit: Taydr; not talking about that anymore.
#26
Quote by Avedas
Sort of. I'm not really sure how split chords work; they seem pretty ambiguous themselves. Also, how would I apply that?


The slash chord simply indicates that there's a specific chord (in my example, G major because there's a G and a B) with a note other than the root in the bass. Could you elaborate on what you mean by "how would I apply that"?
#27
Quote by :-D
The slash chord simply indicates that there's a specific chord (in my example, G major because there's a G and a B) with a note other than the root in the bass. Could you elaborate on what you mean by "how would I apply that"?


Thanks for the explanation.

My question could be better worded as "How does it apply to naming the 1 4 5 7 chord?"
#28
Quote by :-D
Here's my take: a maj7 chord is built 1, 3, 5, 7. If you don't have the third then the basic triad is tonally ambiguous; it would be a power chord because you only have the root and the fifth. You'd have a chord built as 1 5 7. Take for example something based off of a C major triad but without the third, such as C G B. In this case I'd personally just called it a G/C, does that make any sense at all?

Calling a chord G/C implies that it is an inverted G major chord. But an inverted G would have the notes D G B, not C G B. I would personally call a chord containing C G B C5add7.
Ka pu te ruha ka hao te rangatahi.
#29
Quote by Avedas
Thanks for the explanation.

My question could be better worded as "How does it apply to naming the 1 4 5 7 chord?"


No problem, glad to help.

In terms of naming it, simply think about intervals. We'll use C major again. You would have 1 5 7 (C G B). The formula would be a V chord with the tonic of the key in the bass. I think my other explanation should have covered the 1 4 5 7, this was just to address a different concern (the whole maj7sus4 debate).

Quote by Taydr
Calling a chord G/C implies that it is an inverted G major chord. But an inverted G would have the notes D G B, not C G B. I would personally call a chord containing C G B C5add7.

Nope, it doesn't indicate an inverted G chord, but rather a G chord with a C note in the bass.
#30
Quote by :-D
Nope, it doesn't indicate an inverted G chord, but rather a G chord with a C note in the bass.

True, but that would make the scale degrees 1 5 7 with C as the root, and the tonic, where with G as the tonic, and C as the root, it would be 4 1 3 (I think). That would be G/C (no 5). I just think it's more practical to call it C5add7, based upon C being the root and tonic.
Ka pu te ruha ka hao te rangatahi.
#32
Quote by Taydr
True, but that would make the scale degrees 1 5 7 with C as the root, and the tonic, where with G as the tonic, and C as the root, it would be 4 1 3 (I think). That would be G/C (no 5). I just think it's more practical to call it C5add7, based upon C being the root and tonic.


I see your point here, I think people may be inclined to call it different things depending on where the progression is headed anyway but I'm not entirely sure. And with the G/C I wouldn't even bother notating the lack of a fifth, because it's tonally unimportant in that context.
#33
Quote by :-D
I see your point here, I think people may be inclined to call it different things depending on where the progression is headed anyway but I'm not entirely sure. And with the G/C I wouldn't even bother notating the lack of a fifth, because it's tonally unimportant in that context.

Well it's essentially the same thing so it doesn't really matter. I agree about the fifth being tonally unimportant in the context, I just tend to notate it so people don't get confused thinking about a triad with a C added in as the bass. It's a habit I've picked up teaching theory.
Ka pu te ruha ka hao te rangatahi.
#34
Quote by Taydr
Well it's essentially the same thing so it doesn't really matter. I agree about the fifth being tonally unimportant in the context, I just tend to notate it so people don't get confused thinking about a triad with a C added in as the bass. It's a habit I've picked up teaching theory.


Yes, I get exactly what you're saying. It's not a question of one application being always correct or always incorrect; your way makes as much sense as mine so to each his own.
#35
Quote by :-D
Yes, I get exactly what you're saying. It's not a question of one application being always correct or always incorrect; your way makes as much sense as mine so to each his own.

I do say that most of the time in music there is no right or wrong, only preference.
Ka pu te ruha ka hao te rangatahi.
#36
I may be missing something here, but the chord Avedas tabbed out, wouldn't that be called D11 (no 5th)?
#37
Quote by :-D
Here's my take: a maj7 chord is built 1, 3, 5, 7. If you don't have the third then the basic foundation is tonally ambiguous; it would be a power chord because you only have the root and the fifth. You'd have a chord built as 1 5 7. Take for example something based off of a C major triad but without the third, such as C G B. In this case I'd personally just called it a G/C, does that make any sense at all?


It should be called a maj7sus4. Suspension means that the basic chord has the third altered to become minor. If the performer adds upper extensions, they are able to add the 10th to a suspension, and the 10th would indicate the tonality. For example:

7sus4 = 1, 4, 5, b7, (9, 10, 13)

The ninth eleventh and thirteenth are tones which can be added ad libitum. The suspension means that the third is replaced with the fourth, and if the eleventh were to be added, it would thus have to be replaced with the tenth which fits with the chord name

min7sus4 = 1, 4, 5, b7 (9, b10, 13)

maj7sus4 = 1, 4, 5, 7 (9, 10, 13)

The minor seventh chord with a suspension is the same as the dominant seventh with a suspension before extensions are added, but the extension can be used to indicate a different tonality. This also applies to a major seventh in that the tenth, which could be used as an extension, prevents the chord from being "neutral". Therefore the chord (1, 4, 5, 7) can be named a maj7sus4