#1
Ok I know my fair share of scales/modes in many different positions
Whats the best way to go about learning them in all the positions and in every key.
I mean I can sit there and work each out,but how do you take on such a big task and not get discouraged by the amount of work needed?
Im also keen on learning the intervals too,Im currently naming them by imagining a major/minor scale starting from the root im on then naming what interval in that scale it is.Is there any betetr ways of doing this?

P.S I know all my spellings for the modes and scales too
Gear:
Jackson Pro Series DK2T Dinky
ESP LTD KH-202
Yamaha APX-5-12A
Antares 12 String Acoustic
Earthfire Jazz Bass
Peavey Valveking 212
Marshall MG30DFX
Peavey KB/A 15
BOSS MT-2
BOSS MD-2
Rocktek MWR-01
#2
Quote by Crazy Toad
Ok I know my fair share of scales/modes in many different positions
Whats the best way to go about learning them in all the positions and in every key.
I mean I can sit there and work each out,but how do you take on such a big task and not get discouraged by the amount of work needed?
Im also keen on learning the intervals too,Im currently naming them by imagining a major/minor scale starting from the root im on then naming what interval in that scale it is.Is there any betetr ways of doing this?

P.S I know all my spellings for the modes and scales too



its a big task. There is really no getting around that. Personally I would suggest learning a pattern at a time, then learn to connect them all. Eventually you will see the pattern over the entire fretboard. To learn them in every key, you pretty much have to practice playing in every key. You could find some backing tracks, and practice over those.
Anyway you approach it, its work, and it takes time.

What your doing regarding intervals is a good idea.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 26, 2008,
#3
http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/ That's quite a useful tool for everything

But thoery realyl does help in learning the neck but when it comes down to it you'll have to learn what makes up scales and practice it until you can recall from memory the notes of scales or keys etc, and then apply that to the neck, but the fretboard comes quickly when you do that and start seeing all the patterns on it
#4
I think first you need to have a good memory of where the notes are on the neck... especially on the 4th 5th and 6th/1st string. This will give you instant starting points for your scales.

Next learn where any given interval is from each string (basically just accounting for shape changes over the 2nd/3rd string).

Then you will be able to play any scale as long as you know the interval formula.



thats my way anyway....
#5
Learn it in colums

E.g learn all the notes from E to e on the 3rd fret, then 5th, 7th, and 9th

That way you know the entire first octave (second is the same obviously) and you can easily work out a fret either side, so fret 6 for example, by either raising or lowering the note of the colum you do know

Eventually you wont have to think about rasing by half a step, you will already know the even frets.




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#6
i can relate to what you're thinking toad, since i'm at the same stage right now.
i think it's important that you don't think in patterns. i think you have to learn them, but over time you have to see the whole neck as a whole. you have to instantly know what notes could be played next en where they are on the neck.
also knowing where your roots and and learning how to connect those with each other is important.
there are a lot of exercises on the internet for scales, just pick the ones you think are the most effective and work your way up.
#8
isit like in the key of A, all the positions of the A minor pentatonic? and key of G, all positions of the G minor penta
#9
Quote by Tvr
i can relate to what you're thinking toad, since i'm at the same stage right now.
i think it's important that you don't think in patterns. i think you have to learn them, but over time you have to see the whole neck as a whole. you have to instantly know what notes could be played next en where they are on the neck.
also knowing where your roots and and learning how to connect those with each other is important.
there are a lot of exercises on the internet for scales, just pick the ones you think are the most effective and work your way up.


Yeah you're definately right there, if patterns become ingrained into you then it can be hard to break them. But finding notes from memory of just where they are to say build arpeggios or scales etc goes around that and reinforces the neck and different ways of playing stuff into you
#10
you don't have to do that, learn the patters for the major scale, knw where the roots are, and then you can change between keys with ease.
also, the same patterns (from the maj. scale) apply to the minor and the modes, but the roots are in a different place.
#11
Yeah i think Il learn them in segments,its just changing keys that might confuse me a bit at first,although I understand the concept of it
Gear:
Jackson Pro Series DK2T Dinky
ESP LTD KH-202
Yamaha APX-5-12A
Antares 12 String Acoustic
Earthfire Jazz Bass
Peavey Valveking 212
Marshall MG30DFX
Peavey KB/A 15
BOSS MT-2
BOSS MD-2
Rocktek MWR-01
#12
Quote by philipisabeast
Yeah you're definately right there, if patterns become ingrained into you then it can be hard to break them. But finding notes from memory of just where they are to say build arpeggios or scales etc goes around that and reinforces the neck and different ways of playing stuff into you


yeah exactly.
also playing thirds (since thirds are the most dominant interval in a chord..i mean.. eh.. you know the whole major/minor thing).
arpeggios are a good way to learn soloing on the neck, since it's a minimalistic version of a scale (3 or four notes).

the possibilities are endless, but you just gotta do it day in and day out..
#13
Yeah i think Il learn them in segments,its just changing keys that might confuse me a bit at first,although I understand the concept of it[/QUO

change in key is just a change in pitch, right?
(ofcourse, each key has it's own different feeling.)

simple ex.:

gmin pentatonic pattern with root on the low e-string.
if you want to change keys to c? it's either on the eight of the same string, or on the 3rd on the fifth string. (since g-d is a perf. 4th, and the string lower is also a perf. 4th.)
i can't explain it more clearly (part due to my lacking of english language) but you have to figure it out for yourself, that's better.
#14
Yeah I mean moving the whole shape(all over the neck)up or down
For example if you were in such and such a key,and there are notes on say the 5th,7th and 9th(3 notes on fret markers)
Say I wanted to play the whole scale a semi tone up,I would sometimes use the fret markers as reference points as silly as it sounds.
So All Im saying is that would take a bit of getting used to and making sure I dont go back to notes from previous keys Ive learnt
Gear:
Jackson Pro Series DK2T Dinky
ESP LTD KH-202
Yamaha APX-5-12A
Antares 12 String Acoustic
Earthfire Jazz Bass
Peavey Valveking 212
Marshall MG30DFX
Peavey KB/A 15
BOSS MT-2
BOSS MD-2
Rocktek MWR-01
#15
so if u wan to play the scales in different keys, u just need to know the root note and just apply the same pattern right?
#16
The best way to start seeing the entire fretboard, instead of working with
individual segments all the time, is to approach the scale from a number of
different perspectives. Each perspective adds a different outlook on the scale.
For a while each perspective will seem to be separate, but then they'll begin
to integrate into one whole.

Different perspectives are things like linear scale patterns, harmonized triads,
arpeggios, or any particular lick or pattern you can move to any fret/string in
the scale. It's important to take any of these and practice vertical neck movement
with them. I think people get stuck in sections is because that's about all they
practice.

Changing keys takes a long time to get down. Realize changing keys means the
entire neck pattern changes. It's not dependent on "going to a specific fret". You
can always change keys "right under your fingers" if you know how the pattern
changed.
#17
Quote by disillusia
so if u wan to play the scales in different keys, u just need to know the root note and just apply the same pattern right?

yea pretty much. the guitar is easy like that. the shapes, patterns, and the order of these are all the same. the only thing that changes is where you start from. but a G major scale and a D major scale has the same patterns and shapes but you just move it to the root note that is needed for the scale you want to play.

i learned my neck pattern and shape wise. evntually i just played through them so much i began to notice where the notes just overlap and repeat and now i can play alover the neck no problem. i dont know a lot of formal theory and cant read music. so this is how i had to learn. i dont really think of the neck in terms of note names. i know what sounds i want and becuse ive played over the neck so much, i know where to go. imo, it may be better to learn in terms of the notes though. i would think it would be so much easier to know scales if you knew where all the notes were. because then you just have to know a scale formula and you could just play it right away. and it would probably be easier to play all over the neck because you would know that scales are just notes and not these shapes.

but like i said, im at the point where shapes dont matter too much to me because ive played through them and connected them so much. but i think i probably could have gotten to that point faster if i learned theory and the notes. but i just found learning the notes so boring. i just wanted to play. but i made sure it didnt limit me. but for some people it is limiting(shape learning). but i think its not really how they learned it thats limiting but its themselves thats limiting. but that being said, i think the theory way gives a less chance of limiting yourself and more of a chance of opening up your playing.
#18
Im interested in linear scale patterns.Do you know any good sites with them on?
Gear:
Jackson Pro Series DK2T Dinky
ESP LTD KH-202
Yamaha APX-5-12A
Antares 12 String Acoustic
Earthfire Jazz Bass
Peavey Valveking 212
Marshall MG30DFX
Peavey KB/A 15
BOSS MT-2
BOSS MD-2
Rocktek MWR-01
#20
Quote by Crazy Toad
I mean I can sit there and work each out,but how do you take on such a big task and not get discouraged by the amount of work needed?


Hey Crayz Toad! I believe focusing on the end result and your ultimate goals should be a large part of what keeps you focused and not discouraged from continuing to work at this objective you have. If you keep focused on what it is that you really want to accomplish it and what benefits it will bring you and how awesome it is going to be when you get it all knocked out, THEN that has some serious positive driving force for you.

Hope that helps some!


Chris
#21
Your right man totally
Ive also read several places one of the secrets to becoming a great player is getting a great teacher and I do have one(even though I dont always have the money for lessons) when i do get them the advice he gives is golden.
Itl all pay off in the long run
Gear:
Jackson Pro Series DK2T Dinky
ESP LTD KH-202
Yamaha APX-5-12A
Antares 12 String Acoustic
Earthfire Jazz Bass
Peavey Valveking 212
Marshall MG30DFX
Peavey KB/A 15
BOSS MT-2
BOSS MD-2
Rocktek MWR-01
#23
I am pretty much,I mean I certainly havent had loads of lessons with him
But Id be lying if i said they werent valuable.
I aint saying you cant learn effectively on your own though,im just saying some people(moi) need a lil guidance.
Gear:
Jackson Pro Series DK2T Dinky
ESP LTD KH-202
Yamaha APX-5-12A
Antares 12 String Acoustic
Earthfire Jazz Bass
Peavey Valveking 212
Marshall MG30DFX
Peavey KB/A 15
BOSS MT-2
BOSS MD-2
Rocktek MWR-01
#24
I find thirds are really helpful for traversing the fretboard, they not only help you learn the pattern along a single string but they also help you remember the relationship between two adjacent strings. Also, don't neglect chords in all this - if you learn all the chords associated with a particular scale then you've got most of the notes covered anyways and you can use chord shapes to guide you around.
Actually called Mark!

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#25
hmm wat u mean by thirds? the interval right ? but how do u apply it.. dun quite get it
#26
Quote by disillusia
hmm wat u mean by thirds? the interval right ? but how do u apply it.. dun quite get it


Take the scale and, by scale degrees, go:

1 - 3 - 2 - 4 - 3 - 5 - 4 -..... -5 - 3 - 4 - 2 - 3 - 1

or

1 - 3 - 1 - 2 - 4 - 2 - 3 - 5 - 3 -.....

or by triads:

1 - 3 - 5 - 2 - 4 - 6 - 3 - 5 - 7 ....

Lots of ways to do 3rds. More and more I think 3rds are "God's Interval" for
improvisors.

Then, of course you can do 4ths, 5ths, 6ths or 7ths similarly.
One you get the hang of it, they aren't hard to make up.

Try http://www.sheetsofsound.net/

That book has done more for my fretboard scale skills than anything else. It
really emphasized vertical movement, which in turn, helps you see the fretboard
better. Not to mention, it's well organized with tons of musical ideas for the
improvisor.
#27
I might not actually be doing what I think I'm doing...what I meant was going up in thirds for a specific chord progression, for example.

in E minor, descending

e|--------------------
B|--------------------
G|-12-11-9--7-5-4-2-0-
D|-14-12-10-9-7-5-4-2-
A|--------------------
E|--------------------


basically your harmonising the scale with itself along those two strings, which also happens to be the root and third of the chord progression that follows the scale, so you're doing several things at once...learning the notes of that scale along those two strings, learning how those two notes together sound, learning something that can be easily adapted into a cool sounding linear run and also learning the chord progression. Simply put, the 3 fret intervals are a minor 3rd, the 2 fret ones a major third.

That's why fretting the top two frets together as a doublestop tends to sound good, because if you're in E you're playing an inverted 5th. This is why chords=scales and scales=chords and why you should always learn your chords.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

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i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


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#28
Quote by disillusia
im self taught and thats quite a demoralising statement


I'm self taught (mostly) too. I know it seems hard, especially with theory but keep at it and before you know it, it will seem like a second nature to you. You will be able to see someone play a riff and you will immediately be able to say "Ok so that's in E minor" or "that's F# major".
#29
Quote by steven seagull
I might not actually be doing what I think I'm doing...what I meant was going up in thirds for a specific chord progression, for example.


Basically same thing. There's all kinds of ways working with thirds, and that would
be simultaneous (double stop) 3rds. (which coincidently I've been working with
a lot lately). Very worthwhile to do in many ways. You can even do double stop
3rds in 3rds!

3rds I find are endlessly interesting. They really blur the line between harmony and
melody. Since they're the basic building blocks of chords, a melody line based on
3rds almost always sounds pretty good. Arpeggiate 2 3rds in a row and you can
ascend/descend the scale in diatonic triads, 3 3rds in a row and you can do
diatonic 7ths. A sequence of 7 thirds and you cover every note in the scale over
2 octaves.

Anyway, anyone who's interested in improvising should discover 3rds. They can
do magical things to your playing.
#30
Quote by steven seagull
I find thirds are really helpful for traversing the fretboard, they not only help you learn the pattern along a single string but they also help you remember the relationship between two adjacent strings. Also, don't neglect chords in all this - if you learn all the chords associated with a particular scale then you've got most of the notes covered anyways and you can use chord shapes to guide you around.


Getting comfortable with the thirds in a scale is important. Chords are built off them, and they help when forming arpeggio. They are also one of the best intervals to use to make melodies