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#1
Hello
Me and a gang of friends has started this band, we rehearsed 2 days and it went pretty okay.
But now this other friend of us wants to join, or has more or less invited himself.
So i was wondering if it would be too much noise if we have 6 people playing instruments + a vocalist (Which we don't have yet)
Our current line-up is:

Rhythm Guitar (me) (Decent enough)

Lead Guitar (Good)

Drummer(Started playing 2 months ago so not so good)

Bassist (Dunno, only plays root notes and plays them pretty poorly)

Keyboard: (Quickest fingers ive ever seen, doesn't know notes though)

Keyboard: *The new guy" ( Lacks the technical skills that the first keyboard has, but know notes)

+ a vocalist which we don't have yet, none of us can/want to sing.

So with that lineup + the vocalist we will probably add in the future, i am afraid we will just sound muddy because of all the instruments.
Can it work? Any solutions to make it work?
#2
Sure it can work, if you're willing to put forth the effort to make it work.
No such thing as too many instruments.
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#3
get rid of one of the keyboard guys, (if not both, i hate keyboards in songs) and see if you can convince one of your guitarists to play bass is what i'd do. as far as the drummer goes, id keep him till u find someone better, remember, people get better as they play more, and if he's in a band, he'll want to improve. if ur not playing gigs, theres no harm in keeping him for now.

also, u can have as many instruments as you like as long as everyone knows there place. unfortunately that takes time to work out. but seriously - why two keyboarders?
#5
i think if you all have egos the size of manhattan then it wont work.

basically, it depends on the style of music you want to play. you will most likely have to plan a lot more and be more precise and thorough when writing a song, so that every member's musical input complements each other's. just try it out and follow your gut instincts.

actually i think that 2 keyboard players is too much.
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#7
I prefer a smaller band myself, unless there are distinct instruments such as Dave Matthews Band...I myself am in a 4 piece band, with me playin rhythm and lead guitar, bassist, singer, drums and its easy to coordinate and everything comes through clear...I do think itll sound a bit muddy, so maybe ask a few of other guys to form their own band, or switch off and on durin a song
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#8
If the bassist is only playing root notes and you've got two keyboardists, you don't need the bassist. Harsh but true. Do a Doors/Manzarek and get one of them to play basslines with the left hand and doing chords and the like with the right, and have the other keyboardist take a more 'traditional' keyboard role with lead lines and harmony parts.

It really depends what music it is you're playing, though. Pink Floyd-by Pulse, they had at least two, possibly three guitarists, a drummer, a percussionist, a bassist, two keyboardists, a saxophonist, and backing singers. Getting a clear sound might be more difficult, but it's doable, particularly if you're all very relaxed about not playing all the time.

In general, the bigger the band, the less opportunity there is for there to be the lead player, always showing off. People can have solos and the like, and can take the lead in a song, but they can't be dominating the music all the time unless everyone else is perfectly happy taking a backing role. I saw a jazz orchestra recently, and while about four of the saxophonists, the guitarist and a trumpet player played a solo at different times, at other points in the music they were sitting there doing nothing or putting in fills.

It's definitely doable, but think about logistics of getting that many people together to practice, or transporting gear to gigs. Up to you what you do, but I'd aim to drop either one of the keyboardists, or the bassist if you reckon you could do without them.
#9
Thanks for the input guys.
What i really wanna do is kick one of the keyboardist but it's kinda hard as he's such a nice guy. And i really don't wanna freeze him out.

About the ego part, well that can be a issue. One of the keyboardist is like "omg pussy" if we tell him to turn down the volume, because he's to loud sometimes.

And i think none of us others would really be happy with sitting out on song parts.
#10
Quote by Samzawadi
If the bassist is only playing root notes and you've got two keyboardists, you don't need the bassist. Harsh but true. Do a Doors/Manzarek and get one of them to play basslines with the left hand and doing chords and the like with the right, and have the other keyboardist take a more 'traditional' keyboard role with lead lines and harmony parts.

It really depends what music it is you're playing, though. Pink Floyd-by Pulse, they had at least two, possibly three guitarists, a drummer, a percussionist, a bassist, two keyboardists, a saxophonist, and backing singers. Getting a clear sound might be more difficult, but it's doable, particularly if you're all very relaxed about not playing all the time.

In general, the bigger the band, the less opportunity there is for there to be the lead player, always showing off. People can have solos and the like, and can take the lead in a song, but they can't be dominating the music all the time unless everyone else is perfectly happy taking a backing role. I saw a jazz orchestra recently, and while about four of the saxophonists, the guitarist and a trumpet player played a solo at different times, at other points in the music they were sitting there doing nothing or putting in fills.

It's definitely doable, but think about logistics of getting that many people together to practice, or transporting gear to gigs. Up to you what you do, but I'd aim to drop either one of the keyboardists, or the bassist if you reckon you could do without them.


actall i belive that one of the guitarists in Floyd swithed off to play the sax.

but ya, kick out the bassist or the noob keyboardist...
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#11
Quote by ESte
Thanks for the input guys.
What i really wanna do is kick one of the keyboardist but it's kinda hard as he's such a nice guy. And i really don't wanna freeze him out.

About the ego part, well that can be a issue. One of the keyboardist is like "omg pussy" if we tell him to turn down the volume, because he's to loud sometimes.

And i think none of us others would really be happy with sitting out on song parts.


I'd keep him if I were you. Decent keyboard players are hard to come by, and you've got two. (or maybe that's why keyboard players are hard to come by. ) It sounds like they both have weak spots but they should cover each other nicely. You could have one playing a good solid backing while the other is soloing all over the place and doing all the fancy bits.
You could build up a HUGE sound with two keyboard players, plus, image wise, having two keyboard players on stage could look pretty cool too.

As with any band, get 'em all playing together tightly enough, and it'll sound great.
#12
Bruce Springsteen had two keyboardist. It can work if they both do different things. One played piano and one played organ and other similar sounds. Also the piano player was a brilliant technical player, straight off of Broadway and Session work. The organ player was a lot more "feel" oriented. He probably didn't at all know what he was playing at times, but it always sounded good because he could feel it.

If you can work on it like that, it would be awesome. Then one of the guitars could switch to bass, because the keys can take up everything else. But, you still can have two guitars, because Springsteen did that too along with both keys. So the thesis of this statement is that you can really do anything with a little bit of work.
#13
You can make two keyboardists work. Have one play lead and the other rhythm (just like two guitars). This won't work on every song, so they might have to put their ego's aside and let there just be one keyboard part on some songs, or no keyboards on some.

Keep the drummer and the bass player as well. If they are passionate about it, they will get better. Plus, playing in a band makes you better. When I first started playing with my drummer, he wasn't that great. Now that we've been playing together for about a year, he's turned into a great drummer.
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#14
it can work fine, but you need someone who is a very good arranger. Ever see big band Jazz played? or a symphony, most symphony orchestras have a roster of 50+ people
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#15
Quote by Kid_Thorazine
it can work fine, but you need someone who is a very good arranger. Ever see big band Jazz played? or a symphony, most symphony orchestras have a roster of 50+ people


Haha, I've been kinda the arranger so far, finding songs to play, finding parts for the drummer and guitars, finding solutions to make it sound tight etc. So i kinda see myself as some sort of bandleader, even though everyone has a say. And i feel I have done a decent job so hopefully it will turn out well.
#17
If it suits your music style, one keyboardist can play synths and one can play piano.
#18
Funk Brothers anyone? Three guitars, two keyboard, two drummers+percussion...
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#19
I'm in a school rock band at the moment, the largest we got was 5 guitars (+ the one teacher who played guitar, so 6), 2 drummers, and 3 bassists. I played guitar and sang, i wouldn't play while I sang, but I would play my specific parts at the right times. And for soloing, we would have extended solo periods, where all but one guitarist would play the rhythm part and the one would solo. Then we would switch off. It ended up working out pretty well once we really got used to playing with each other.
#20
Well, what kind of music do you play? It won't be, if you play metal you need x instruments, but different genres work out better with fewer people.

Guitars and drummer all sound good. Bassist...keep the bassist for now. You might not need him/her if you can figure out how a keyboard can sound like a bass, but if s/he improves, you can find other things for the keyboardists to do.

As for the keyboards, what do you mean by "knows notes"? Like, scales and intervals, and actual notes, or...? Anyway, if you're going to kick one out, go for the non-technical one. I'm sorry, but keyboards can add or take away so much to a band; their sound is so unique and versatile that they can cover anything from hard rock to classical and jazz. Technicality and ability will be a deciding factor.

However, there's nothing wrong with having two keyboards. A great advantage is that you can have one playing the more piano-like parts, while the other does organ and other instruments. You can even have the second keyboardist mess around with some miscellaneous percussion, maybe to add a little something to the drums.

I don't know if I made any sense just now, but I'll end with: you've got more people, hopefully willing to set their egos aside and learn. You'll have so many more opportunities to make different and unique sounds, and if you put it together right, you'll have an awesome band in a while. Practice!
#21
Quote by element4433
You can make two keyboardists work. Have one play lead and the other rhythm (just like two guitars). This won't work on every song, so they might have to put their ego's aside and let there just be one keyboard part on some songs, or no keyboards on some.

Keep the drummer and the bass player as well. If they are passionate about it, they will get better. Plus, playing in a band makes you better. When I first started playing with my drummer, he wasn't that great. Now that we've been playing together for about a year, he's turned into a great drummer.


Good advice. Personally, I would make the bassist a temporary member and only make him play on a couple of tracks so I'll have a wide range of different type of sounds in different songs.
#22
Well seeing as all of you guys are relatively new to your instruments, its probably going to sound like shit for a while. Two keyboardists can be awesome, does The Band ring a bell? But they are a special case, as both keyboardists were more than competent (one played grand piano and the other played organ/clav/etc). But you should probably think about laying some people off, maybe the other guitarist and one of the keyboardists. That way, you can play the rhythm and the keyboardist can solo, or the keyboardist can play the rhythm and you can take the solo. Also, if you're interested in playing any kind of complex music that goes beyond pop punk, you'll need a better bass player. And I mean, I don't know what you can do about the drummer, wait till he gets better? It sucks, but if all the members of your new band are inexperienced or new to their instruments, theres not really much you can do.
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#23
Its not bad.
Slipknot got away with 9 instruments in their band.
You should be able to do fine too.
Though you need to be able to give each instrument its right place to stop it from becoming one big mess!
#24
Well seeing as all of you guys are relatively new to your instruments, its probably going to sound like shit for a while. Two keyboardists can be awesome, does The Band ring a bell? But they are a special case, as both keyboardists were more than competent (one played grand piano and the other played organ/clav/etc). But you should probably think about laying some people off, maybe the other guitarist and one of the keyboardists. That way, you can play the rhythm and the keyboardist can solo, or the keyboardist can play the rhythm and you can take the solo. Also, if you're interested in playing any kind of complex music that goes beyond pop punk, you'll need a better bass player. And I mean, I don't know what you can do about the drummer, wait till he gets better? It sucks, but if all the members of your new band are inexperienced or new to their instruments, theres not really much you can do.

New to our instruments?
Only the drummer and bassist is new to their instruments.

Other guitar player has played for 2 years

One of the keyboardist has played for like 8-9 years

And the other keyboardist i don't know, he's never tried to get any good, but i think he has played a couple of years.

And I've played for like 9 months.

So i don't think we're new to our instruments
#25
Quote by chinese_jazz

As for the keyboards, what do you mean by "knows notes"?


May sound wierd, but he knows like the name of the chords he plays, unlike the other keyboardist.
#26
Quote by ESte
New to our instruments?
Only the drummer and bassist is new to their instruments.

Other guitar player has played for 2 years

One of the keyboardist has played for like 8-9 years

And the other keyboardist i don't know, he's never tried to get any good, but i think he has played a couple of years.

And I've played for like 9 months.

So i don't think we're new to our instruments

I think you are new to your instruments. Except for one of the keyboardist who seems to be a seasoned musician (which one, the one who sucks at playing or the one who doesn't know what hes playing?), the rest of you are all relatively new to your instruments, ranging from very new to slightly new. I don't care what you say or how advanced you think you are, 9 months is still a very short amount of time to be playing. Its not an insult, hell I guarantee Jimi Hendrix wasn't any good after only 9 months of playing, not saying you're not good, just making a point. After nine months, not only did I not know how to run a band or make it work, not only was I not very good at playing, but I didn't even truly understand the intracacies of music and the way certain instruments mesh together to create a sound. I'm not trying to put you down, I'm simply calling it as I read it, and this post right here confirms what I thought, that most of you guys are relatively new to youre instruments and it will be hard to get it all together.
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#27
Quote by trey-col89
I think you are new to your instruments. Except for one of the keyboardist who seems to be a seasoned musician (which one, the one who sucks at playing or the one who doesn't know what hes playing?), the rest of you are all relatively new to your instruments, ranging from very new to slightly new. I don't care what you say or how advanced you think you are, 9 months is still a very short amount of time to be playing. Its not an insult, hell I guarantee Jimi Hendrix wasn't any good after only 9 months of playing, not saying you're not good, just making a point. After nine months, not only did I not know how to run a band or make it work, not only was I not very good at playing, but I didn't even truly understand the intracacies of music and the way certain instruments mesh together to create a sound. I'm not trying to put you down, I'm simply calling it as I read it, and this post right here confirms what I thought, that most of you guys are relatively new to youre instruments and it will be hard to get it all together.


So what you're saying basically is that it wont work?
#28
Quote by ESte
May sound wierd, but he knows like the name of the chords he plays, unlike the other keyboardist.

I don't understand this.... how is it even possible for a pianist/keyboardist to NOT know the notes or chords he or she is playing? I mean, for a guitar or bass player they can get tabs and sort of cruise along without knowing what they are playing. There are no piano tabs, you need to know chords and notes in order to effectively play a piano. Otherwise your solos will just be completely random and you're sure to hit a few bunk notes.
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#29
Quote by trey-col89
I don't understand this.... how is it even possible for a pianist/keyboardist to NOT know the notes or chords he or she is playing? I mean, for a guitar or bass player they can get tabs and sort of cruise along without knowing what they are playing. There are no piano tabs, you need to know chords and notes in order to effectively play a piano. Otherwise your solos will just be completely random and you're sure to hit a few bunk notes.


I don't understand how he's able to play without knowing what chords he plays either.
He actually makes quite good keyboard pieces, but when i ask him to play an A for instance, he's like "WTF".... Impressive for playing over half you're life eh?
#30
Quote by ESte
So what you're saying basically is that it wont work?

I'm not saying it DEFINITELY won't work, but theres a good chance it won't. Trust me. Forget the fact that all of the members have been playing for different amounts of time, but I guarantee the skill levels of all the players are not equal. Thats what puts wedges in between a lot of bands, having a member (or in your case two or even more) who just don't know what they are doing yet and can't effectively contribute and it gets very frustrating for both parties.

For example, you said that your drummer and bassist suck and just started playing their instruments. If your rhythm section can't effectively contribute (keep time, chord changes, etc.) theres absolutely no way the band could work, unless you're willing to go through a while of just sitting around waiting for them to get good at their instruments. Developing your instrumental abilities is NOT easy and isn't something people develop over night, hell most people who try to pick up an instrument end up giving up anyway cause they don't "get it" quick enough, and then there are people who play and play, but never really "get it". I know a kid who has been playing guitar for 6 years, can't play a lick of lead work, doesn't know anything about chords or notes or anything. Pretty much just sits there and plays one or two chords over and over, after SIX years of playing.

So what I'm saying is, go ahead with this band, but don't expect any miracles. Be patient and develop your abilities the best you can at home or with friends or however, so that when you are seasoned and know what you're doing, and you have the opportunity to play with a great band, you're right up in there.
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#32
Quote by ESte
I don't understand how he's able to play without knowing what chords he plays either.
He actually makes quite good keyboard pieces, but when i ask him to play an A for instance, he's like "WTF".... Impressive for playing over half you're life eh?

I'm really interested to hear this kid play. I can't possibly see how what he plays can be any good or make any sense if he has no idea what hes playing.
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#33
Quote by ESte
So what you're saying basically is that it wont work?


well, you guys are still figuring out your instruments. even when you've been playing for years, you still learn new techniques and skills. but when you guys are as new as you are, you are gonna be working on getting a good sound out of your amps more than getting the band playing tightly.

Maybe he meant something different, but that's what i think. and there's nothing wrong at all with playing together.
#34
make one of your keyboardists do another instrument along with the keys, like turntables or something. or maybe have the slower one do like a synth or something and the other regular keys.
#35
A lot of people can play piano by ear and memory of basic hand positions without knowing the names of what they are playing.
#36
Something to remember with keyboards is that they are digital instruments, which means they can sound like (or close to) whatever you want them to. You could have one doing chords on a grand piano and the other playing a wicked kazoo solo.

Show the bassist a really good bassist...billy sheehan, jaco pastorious, cliff burton, les claypool...something to inspire him.

The drummer will get better...drum's aren't hard to get going on. He may not be Mike Portnoy for quite a while, but if you like him, leave him in.
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#37
I saw GNR in N.Y.C. in 06 .They had 7-8 people on stage and they sounded Great! Skynyrd has 6 guys. Good Luck!
#38
Quote by trey-col89
I don't understand this.... how is it even possible for a pianist/keyboardist to NOT know the notes or chords he or she is playing? I mean, for a guitar or bass player they can get tabs and sort of cruise along without knowing what they are playing. There are no piano tabs, you need to know chords and notes in order to effectively play a piano. Otherwise your solos will just be completely random and you're sure to hit a few bunk notes.



well, since TS said hes been playing for 8-9 years, hes prolly got such good feel for the piano that he can improvise and such without knowing the offical terms for what hes doing, like the keyboardist may recogize a g played on guitar or bass as "that key thats 3 away from X* instead of "g"


the same sort of thing happened to me when i started playing guitar after playing drums for 3 years, after i got the technical ability for rhythem guitar what i would do when i was jamming was id have the bassist start before me, id see the frets and strings he was playing, id go to the same box, but make a up a different riff that still kept in time
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#39
2 keyboards?
it could work really nice and maybe in an awesome way
but i would prefer the simplicity of my band line up
bass/vocals/chorus
guitar/vocals/chorus
drums
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