#1
Most of my favorite guitarists use pentatonics, and so do I. But I'm messing around with the modes more and more, and liking it. But I only know 1 or two boxes for the modes I know. One things I love abut Pentatonics is I know the 5 boxes-as a result, I can solo anywhere on the fretboard. Is there a way to learn the modes across the fretboard that doesn't involve learning tons of boxes for each mode? I know the pattens must repeat, but can somebody show me how? Is there a link to somewhere that could help me unlock the fretboard with the modes?
And what are some rock guitarists that make good use of the modes, specifically Mixo.(my fave).Specifically, solo's to model after(ex:I model my Pent. improv after Slash's live improv). A song or a guitarist, either would be nice. And remember, rock, I don't want a shredder, or something.
And finally, to solo like EVH, do I need Pentatonics, modes(what modes?), neither, just a good understanding of intervals, what? Thanks!
Quote by darkstar2466
Bigfoot.... The Abominable Snowman.... Chinese Democracy.... all stories, nothing more.


#2
well your first question is the easiest to answer so i'll answer that one first:

the solo like EVH, you have to either be really ****in good or be EVH. that's just it. he uses pentatonics, and several modes i'm sure, but just cuz you use those doesn't mean you'll sound anything like him. sorry if i got the wrong idea about what you were asking, but there you go.

as far as learning the different boxes, i learned by just staying on the same string rather than skipping to the next string when i wanted to hit the next note. the only mode i know is E phrygian, but that one is pretty easy. anyways, learn what notes go with each mode. there are plenty of threads and lessons on this website on how to build each mode. just do a little searching. once you know the notes for each mode play them on each string, and keep going up the neck rather than just going horizontally across the strings, that way to can learn to branch to the different parts of the neck. i like that method rather than just constricting myself to "boxes".
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#3
Quote by mydogpoops
Is there a way to learn the modes across the fretboard that doesn't involve learning tons of boxes for each mode? I know the pattens must repeat, but can somebody show me how? Is there a link to somewhere that could help me unlock the fretboard with the modes?


first off, I'll give you this: http://www.all-guitar-chords.com/guitar_scales.php
Which I'm sure that will make you happy but here are necessities to truly "unlock the fretboard" as you so succinctly put it:

1-you must know your fretboard. Know the notes! the notes!
2-you can do this by learning how a major scale(and pents) are constructed - their interval and/or step motions and THEN seeing how the different positions fit in(if that's confusing, try the theory sticky)
3-the two things above will take you a lot of time and patience, but pays off in ways you wouldn't believe. And any mode will become a piece of cake after that.

If you have any more specifics ask. But please just don't go that site a lone without really trying to understand your fretboard.

oh, another note, the major/minor/harmonic/melodic/modes are much harder to improvise on. So when you start to learn it, try to play to a backing track that is in the key you are practicing. I'm sure there's a bunch of stuff on the net. good luck
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#4
if you know the major scale positions you know where they are

for example if you know Cmaj you also know D dorian and so on and so forth

ex. CDEFGABC - Cmaj

DEFGABC- Ddorian

and so on up the scale to different modes with differewnt root notes

i assume you know these are only really relevent to the progression so there is a good trick
song stuck in my head today


#5
To learn modes this is what I did.

First I learned how they were derived.

Then I sat down with a piece of paper and started writing things down about them. Trying to make connections between them, and everything else. Harmonizing them. Learning the scale intervals. It really helps to know them, even if something seems useless there is probably a good reason behind it which can help your playing.
#6
If you have a really good understanding of the major scale then modes will come very easily to you. So learn the major scale in depth first then move to modes.
#7
Quote by mydogpoops
Is there a way to learn the modes across the fretboard that doesn't involve learning tons of boxes for each mode?


Yes, but you need some understanding and a perspective shift. The major scale
positions contain all the modes. The only reason you think in "mode boxes" is
because you don't understand the notes. Just like your "5 pentatonic boxes",
the major scale has "boxes" that go up the neck. The modes are in there.
#8
Quote by edg
Yes, but you need some understanding and a perspective shift. The major scale
positions contain all the modes. The only reason you think in "mode boxes" is
because you don't understand the notes. Just like your "5 pentatonic boxes",
the major scale has "boxes" that go up the neck. The modes are in there.


Since all the relative modes contain the same notes, those modes are in the exact same spots all over the fretboard. The difference is which notes receive the emphasis.
#9
if you want specifically mixo learn the intervals and the cords to create a mixo progression.
song stuck in my head today


#10
Quote by lbc_sublime
if you want specifically mixo learn the intervals and the cords to create a mixo progression.


Chord progressions aren't used very often with modes.
Last edited by SOAD_freak777 at Mar 27, 2008,
#11
Another question(but please, still answer the others)-how can I determine what mode to use over what chord? I'd be asking my teacher but I don't see him till monday, and I want to practice some of this.
Quote by darkstar2466
Bigfoot.... The Abominable Snowman.... Chinese Democracy.... all stories, nothing more.


#12
Quote by SOAD_freak777
Chord progression are used very often with modes.


Did you mean "infrequently"? Vamps are much more common than all-out progressions when we're talking about modal music.

Quote by mydogpoops
Another question(but please, still answer the others)-how can I determine what mode to use over what chord? I'd be asking my teacher but I don't see him till monday, and I want to practice some of this.


Theory sticky, it'll explain what types of chords are characteristic of specific modes.
#13
Quote by :-D
Did you mean "infrequently"? Vamps are much more common than all-out progressions when we're talking about modal music.

I meant to say they aren't used very often with modes but I wasn't paying attention to what I was typing.
#14
Quote by isaac_bandits
Since all the relative modes contain the same notes, those modes are in the exact same spots all over the fretboard. The difference is which notes receive the emphasis.

If you're using the notes E F G A B C D over a C major chord, you can hit the E all you want, but it won't sound like E Phrygian. It'll just sound like you're landing on the third. The chord determines the mode.
#15
Quote by kirbyrocknroll
If you're using the notes E F G A B C D over a C major chord, you can hit the E all you want, but it won't sound like E Phrygian.


Reason being this: it's NOT E Phrygian because the chords don't suggest it. You said that, but I want to clear up for everyone that this particular case is not E Phrygian. Ever. I think he was simply referring to specific intervals that are found within certain modes though, not that playing a specific note immediately implies a particular mode.
#16
Quote by :-D
Did you mean "infrequently"? Vamps are much more common than all-out progressions when we're talking about modal music.
You wouldn't consider an Am7 D7 vamp to be a chord progression?
#17
Quote by bangoodcharlote
You wouldn't consider an Am7 D7 vamp to be a chord progression?


I usually view vamps differently than other progressions, it may not be the correct way of thinking about it though. It would be an A Dorian vamp to me, but it's just two chords back and forth in order to stay modally safe. I know progressions repeat as well, but I usually think "progression" with key-based music. That's a terrible explanation though, my thought is difficult to explain here.
#18
Quote by :-D
I usually view vamps differently than other progressions, it may not be the correct way of thinking about it though. It would be an A Dorian vamp to me, but it's just two chords back and forth in order to stay modally safe. I know progressions repeat as well, but I usually think "progression" with key-based music. That's a terrible explanation though, my thought is difficult to explain here.
I get it. it's like explaining the difference between a riff and a lick.
#19
Quote by bangoodcharlote
I get it. it's like explaining the difference between a riff and a lick.


Okay, good analogy- but I'm not explaining that difference!
#20
regardless, these scales are in relation to the progression. there for if you wanted to play something specifically in mixo i would suggest learnong the intervals and chords that correlate to the that specific scale

further more just because they arn't use as often doesn't mean they can't be used.

telling people that it is only used for this long and that it is hard to keep in key wiht it is a little prescriptive don't you think?

there is no real rules to make music creatively
song stuck in my head today


#21
Quote by lbc_sublime
further more just because they arn't use as often doesn't mean they can't be used.


I didn't say that.

telling people that it is only used for this long and that it is hard to keep in key wiht it is a little prescriptive don't you think?


I didn't say "only use it for this long" either. In addition, modes are harmonically unstable and will want to resolve somewhere else, so they can be hard to use. Don't say "in key" because modal music and key-based music are different.
#22
^ i know what you are saying

i am just a little pissy sorry
song stuck in my head today


#23
Quote by isaac_bandits
Since all the relative modes contain the same notes, those modes are in the exact same spots all over the fretboard. The difference is which notes receive the emphasis.


I'm not sure why that reply was to me.
I was saying major scale "boxes" are analogous to his pentatonic "boxes".
Any of the modes can be in any of the "boxes".

Man, all this mode talk sure gets tiresome... For people learning to improvise,
modes are pretty low on the list of critical things to know. And they wouldn't
be all that difficult to grasp if people understood what a scale really means and
how it "functions". But the understanding of scales is superficial, so modes
are these big mysteries. And everyone loves to pontificate about them.

Understand a scale. Don't worry about modes until you get that (or even get well
beyond that).
#24
So then what would you call the critical things to learn about improv?
Quote by darkstar2466
Bigfoot.... The Abominable Snowman.... Chinese Democracy.... all stories, nothing more.


#25
First, understand what a scale is and how notes function in a scale.
Consistent scale fingering system on the fingerboard
Scale Harmony - the 7 basic triads
Scale Harmony - the 7 basic extended chords
Diatonic Arpeggios on the fingerboard
Diatonic Intervals on the fingerboard
Arpeggios around the circle of 5ths

That's the major topics off the top of my head and each would have some subtopics.
There's quite a bit of work in there and it would develop your finger skill, ability
to see the fretboard and ear all at the same time.