#1
I play in a pop-punk band. My JCM800 just isn't modern sounding enough and the one channel is kind of limiting. I got it for underground sounding stuff, and it works for old Greenday and Jawbreaker and stuff like that, but we're more FOB, The Starting Line, Brand New-ish. I got a good deal on a JCM2000 off ebay figuring it would be better, more modern, for what we're doing, and it's ok, but it's not the tone I'm looking for. Maybe it will wind up sounding perfect through the mix, but I figure I can make 100-200$ more than I got it for selling it locally so I'm not all that concerned about having blown the money on it. My dream amp is a Mesa Roadster, but I can't find one for sale anywhere. So for now, I think I'm going to keep the 2000, until I can come across something better.

Anyway, any suggestions? I see The Starting Line playing an Orange here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OBJvrncm2Q. Any idea what model that is? I really like their tone for pop-punk. Still, a Roadster would be ideal. And if I could get one for under 1000$, a Dual Rec Solo. There's just something smoother and more polished about Mesa's tone that I like for pop while Marshalls just seem too harsh. I think Brand New plays Laney heads, but they use alot of effects and I just want to stick with tube overdrive and maybe an od pedal. I really like the tone on TBS's Tell All Your Friends, any idea what they used?

Alternatively, any good ideas of how to get a good pop punk tone out of the 2000? Settings? EQ stuff? I've got a maxon od and that makes the palm mutes sound great but accentuates the harshness of non-palm muted stuff.

Any help would be greatly appreciated, and anyone who suggests something dumb like 'poop in the amp cuz pop punk is gay lol' can just leave the thread now.
#2
You could get an F-50 combo used for a good price or maybe a Mesa Rectoverb. I would try a JCM900 because they are more modern than 800s and sound much better than the 2000s. You could just poop in your amp too. That might work. Kidding, of course.
Last edited by acdcrocks0323 at Mar 27, 2008,
#3
i didnt think there was a good pop punk anything

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#4
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i didnt think there was a good pop punk anything


Agreed.
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#5
the amp you have can handle it. most amp can do it, even my vox can do it and its not made for it..
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#6
2 posts already dissing pop punk? It's simple but fun music, if you can't accept that then gtfo. Seriously.

How is the F-50, I always got the impression that was more of a metal amp? I'd want a head though. I already have a cab so I'd rather just get a head instead of hauling around another huge piece of gear like a combo. The 900 I never liked, but I haven't played one in almost a year, at really low volumes. Only pop punk band I know of that used one was Blink, and I was never a huge fan, though I do like them from time to time. They also used a Mark III too though.
Last edited by cutslikedrugsx at Mar 27, 2008,
#7
The F-50 is a raelly versatile amp. Not incredibly high gain but kind of modern voiced. It can do some great cleans and mid gain stuff and the high gain isn't teh br00talz without a boost. It might be what you are looking for.
#8
Quote by cutslikedrugsx
2 posts already dissing pop punk? It's simple but fun music, if you can't accept that then gtfo. Seriously.

How is the F-50, I always got the impression that was more of a metal amp? I'd want a head too. I already have a cab so I'd rather just get a head instead of hauling around another huge piece of gear like a combo. The 900 I never liked, but I haven't played one in almost a year, at really low volumes. Only pop punk band I know of that used one was Blink, and I was never a huge fan, though I do like them from time to time. They also used a Mark III too though.


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#9
You want a mesa roadster? Order one straight from the factory. In 8-12 weeks, one will be sitting on your doorstep...
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#10
I don't want to wait 8-12 weeks... I'd just pick one up at GC or something if I were willing to blow that much cash. I'm looking used.

I watched Youtube clips of the F-50 and honestly I really don't like it all that much. It seems like the Dual Recs are really what I'm looking for. Just something about them. I guess I'll just have to keep waiting until I can find one reasonably priced on ebay. Looks like they occasionally go from 800-900$. I can live with that, especially If I can get as much for the Marshall.

Any idea on that orange amp from the starting line vid?
#13
I played a JCM900 at GC and it was pretty cool... I'd say it'd do what your looking for. I've never played a JCM800 though so I dunno how they compare. But I think you can only get the 800s and 900s used now right? I wonder why they discontinued them...
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#14
Does anyone even read the original post before they recommend me the same thing I've already got?

They discontinued them as they came out with the next JCM in the series, and then the 2000s got discontinued when the JVM came out. They do reissue them though, and charge an arm and a leg. But I already have an 800 and a 2000. The Marshall sound, though I like it, is not what I'm looking for for this band. Unless there's something special about the 900 that I'm missing...

I really think I'm just going to hold out for a dual rec on ebay.
#15
Didn't like the JCM800? Really? A lot of pop punk bands and hardcore punk bands use them.

What's your EQ settings? Do you feel it doesn't have enough gain? Let's try and solve this problem with something other than buying a TOTALLY different amp.

Name some more bands you would like to sound like, or similar to.

FOB have used Marshalls, I don't know what the Starting line uses, and Brand New uses Voc AC30's.
What aspect of those bands would you like to sound like?
#16
I LOVE the 800. But we're not that type of pop-punk. We cover Jawbreaker, and I use it for that. But for everything else it sounds very 80s, and I love 80s punk, but we play modern stuff. The 800 has enough gain for rhythm, but it's lacking in the leads even with a maxon pushing it. And the one channel makes it hard when I don't have time to fiddle with the volume knob to get cleans. I do avoid using the maxon though because it causes alot of feedback. I ordered a decimator from mf a month ago, and hopefully when they actually get some in I can play around with it more without feeling like I'm getting stabbed in the ears.

I just got the 2000, so I haven't settled on any EQ settings yet, but nothing sounds close to the tone that I want. I'm ok with getting a different amp, I bought this one on a trial basis, I figured if it works then that's great, if not I can sell it. I'm not at attached to it. It's hard to find good used gear around here, so I can probably sell it for more than I got it for and put that towards a mesa. I don't have a car, so getting to stores to try stuff is hard, this is the next best thing, and sometimes profitable. I once got rid of an AVT50 and made 25$ off of it, and most importantly, learned that AVTs suck.

The 2000 seems like its go plenty of gain for rhythm too, but is still lacking it for leads even with the ultra gain mode turned on. My od fixes this, and makes palm mutes sound great, but accentuates the harsher quality of the amp. I can see why alot of 800 fanboys hate the 2000s. I mean, I like the amp. But I've already got a Marshall, and it gets me the Marshall tone that I want. But what I'm looking for here isn't a Marshall sound. That's why I want a mesa, they just seem smoother, more liquid I guess. It's hard to come up with words that define it. Anyway, I don't regret getting this amp, I just saw a decent deal on it, was looking for something more appropriate for my band, and nabbed it knowing I could always pawn it off on someone around here if it wasn't what I wanted. I'd love to keep it, but I could use that money for my dream amp (other than the 800).

Anyway, I haven't played it with the band yet, so maybe it will cut through and sound good. It's always a different situation through the mix. I also got a new guitar so I'm curious to see what it will sound like with that through it. And there's always time for tweaking. In the mean time, I'm holding out for dual rec. The 2000 will at least let me switch between channels, and be at least more appropriate than the 800. It's not the amp for me, but it will do for now, and maybe get me some extra cash in the future. Plus it will be nice to not have to play through my frontman when I need cleans.

So if anyone's got any EQ settings that would sound good, that would help.
#17
Well, I always think something like a Rangemaster clone is better for lead boosts than a TS type OD...What kind of EQ do you use for the 800?

I'm not a big fan of the 2000 series...so I'd just recommend selling it.

Have you tried more American sounding amps? Other than the Roadster.

And I mean, if you could afford the JCM2000, surely you could afford a used Mesa Mark IV..
#18
I haven't played the mark vi, but the clips I've heard weren't really what I wanted. The dual recs hit the spot though, even the solos. And they go for cheaper used than the mark iv's. I did get the 2000 for pretty cheap though, that's why I grabbed it instead of waiting for a mesa. I see duel rec solo's selling for 800-1000$ in completed listings and I think I'm gonna go for one of those.

What other american sounding amps would be good? I went around to all the stores trying stuff out last year, so I don't even remember half of what I played through and I never got to crank stuff. But the ones that impressed me were the orange rocker 30 and the roadster. At the time I was looking for a jcm800 anyway though.

What kind of EQ? You mean like a pedal? I meant EQ like the bass/treble/mid pots on the amp, but I'm looking into getting an EQ pedal or something. My boss recommended I get a rackmount EQ a long time ago, but I never bothered cause I don't have a rack and I'd rather not get one or have something like that sitting precariously on top of my amp.
#19
Well, Mesa has some other discontinued amps you might want to try out. The Mesa Trem-o-verb, Rect-o-verb, the Mesa F-30 and F-50 series...all good amps...but if you can afford a JCM 2000, there's obviously a lot more available to you.
Not an American amp, but see if you can find an Orange Rockerverb. Also becoming popular among pop punk and hard punk bands these days.

And don't count out the Mark IV just yet. It's a versatile amp. Check out the profile of the UG user 'UnsignedRecords'. All his clips are on a Mark IV.

I mean, what are your amp's EQ settings? On the 800? Relate them in "o'clock positions" as if the middle of the dial were 12 o'clock.


Oh, and as for Taking Back Sunday's gear, I've seen former member Fred Mascherino with a JCM800 before.
#20
I don't know, from the clips I hear, the dual recs are it for me. I mean, it's the tone that I want, and they seem to go for just as much as the other mesas, if not less. The single recs are going for even cheaper but not enough to make them more appealing.

On my 800 the bass is at 5, the mid is at 8, and the treble is at 5 for some reason. I think that one must have gotten bumped because I usually keep that around 8-9. The presence is turned all the way up, though I can't hear much of a difference no matter where it is, and there's a knob labeled 'frequency' that's at 0. I don;t know what that does, it was a mod the previous owner did. The amp even has a footswitch input jack, I don't know what it could possibly do with only one channel and no built in effects though.

So Fred Mascherino uses an 800? I'm seeing it in videos and pictures. Looks like Eddie Reyes uses a Mesa too. That's my dream rig right there, a Marshall and a Mesa. So how does Fred get such a tight modern sounding tone and switch between cleans and overdrive? I don't see any pedals or racks, but it's hard enough to make out the amp in most of the shots. The 2203 is one channel so he must be running through something. Mine's a 2204, but it should be the same deal. I can get my 800 to sound like Jawbreaker, Rites of Spring, Minor Threat, even Ampere. But I'd never have expected that it could pull off TBS tones. If I could do what he's doing though, I'd put the 2000 up for sale right now.
#21
Well, Fred also uses Gibson LPs and Gibson SGs. There's two volume controls and a 3-way switch. Switching to the neck pickup with the volume rolled down, for cleans, is super easy! I do that.

He's actually got a somewhat crowded pedal board, but some of it is stuff I never see him use, like a Digitech Whammy.

I would try bass at 5, mids at 6, treble at 8, and back the prescence to about 7. Prescence is like high-mids control. Listen for it, it's a powerful tool.

Dunno what "frequency" does.

Also, what kind of tubes do you have in there?
#22
I second the mark iv proposal...

And forsaknazrael, I own a set of blackouts! I've never heard them, they aren't installed in anything and they probably never will be, but srsly. It still counts!
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#24
Right now my 800 has E34Ls and I think the 2000 has EL34s or whatever comes stock in them.

I'll have to give those settings a shot tonight.

I think I've done the volume/pup switching thing before but more as a killswitch. Guess it never occured to me to use it for a way to fake clean/dirty channels.

Is there anywhere I can get a look at what's on Fred's board? I hate pedals, but I'd like to see what he's using.
#25
Umm..I've never seen close ups...The time I saw the most of his gear was when I was watchin TBS' AOL Sessions performances. They should still have them up on AOL's website.

What brand of tubes, though? There's a bit of variation.
Have you considered switching out the tubes for a different type, like KT77 or KT88, for tonal variation?
#26
Quote by cutslikedrugsx
2 posts already dissing pop punk? It's simple but fun music, if you can't accept that then gtfo. Seriously.

How is the F-50, I always got the impression that was more of a metal amp? I'd want a head though. I already have a cab so I'd rather just get a head instead of hauling around another huge piece of gear like a combo. The 900 I never liked, but I haven't played one in almost a year, at really low volumes. Only pop punk band I know of that used one was Blink, and I was never a huge fan, though I do like them from time to time. They also used a Mark III too though.


I love pop punk, look at my sig, MxPx man! but I think most amps can handle the sounds...
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#27
Quote by cutslikedrugsx
How is the F-50, I always got the impression that was more of a metal amp? I'd want a head though. I already have a cab so I'd rather just get a head instead of hauling around another huge piece of gear like a combo. The 900 I never liked, but I haven't played one in almost a year, at really low volumes. Only pop punk band I know of that used one was Blink, and I was never a huge fan, though I do like them from time to time. They also used a Mark III too though.

Missed this somehow...Actually Tom's main amp with Blink was a Mesa Dual Rec, AFAIK.
#28
I thought he used a mark iii alongside a 900? We might be talking about different periods of when the band was active though.

I really like the JJ E34Ls in the 800. They improved it alot over whatever was in there before (the old tubes weren't even marked), but I haven't tried anything else yet.

I think the 2000's got Groove Tubes. How would KT affect it?

Just using google, it seems like Fred plays through a Bad Monkey and an MXR Distortion III. I'll actually have a chance to check out the Bad Monkey soon, maybe that'll help.
#29
Well, I'm not sure when he used it, but I know that the Rec was one of the later amps he used.

Bad Monkey's are a lot like the Tube Screamer type.

The MXR Distortion is not a bad idea at all. That might help a lot - it adds more crunch, and can make it a bit heavier. Randy Rhoads used one on top of his Marshall Super Lead.

Dunno about KT's in the 2000, I don't bother much with the 2000...
The KT77 should add some nice mid-to-low end crunch in the 800, it's got a slightly different distortion character than the E34L's, but should be just as punchy.
#30
If your willing to spend that much just wait on eBay I got mine for $1800.

Edit; for the Roadster.. lol
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#31
Ok, so I got home and spent about an hour and a half messing with both amps. Both seem to be pretty bassy on the palm mutes without much trebly chunk, and the maxon helps with that but makes everything else sound crappier and makes feedback squeals.

Thanks for those settings by the way, it's not perfect, but I think those settings are right on and the problem is something else.

I tried lowering the volume on one pup and switching to get cleans, and I just can't pull it off without taking my hand too far away from the strings. I can try out an elitist SG with it tomorrow so maybe the placement of the switch will make it easier.

The tone problem might just be my guitar. It was sounding great when I got it a few years ago, and then one day it just sounded dead and the tone was lifeless. So I upgraded the pups, and it was still lacking in balls but got alot brighter and clearer tone. It also got alot of feedback, so I shielded the control cavity and replaced all the pots with a LP wiring kit from StewMac. That made it WAY brighter, more so than I wanted it to be actually. But it still go just as much feedback and lacked balls. I need to try it with a different guitar. Maybe it will sound alot better.
#32
Sure it getting brighter wasn't in your head? Shielding has no effect on tone, except you'd be able to hear yourself better because there's no 60hz hum.

As for feedback, I can't say I have the same problem with my SG...Just don't play in front of the amp, I guess.

Have you considered a volume pedal for cleans? That's what the guitarist for Alice Cooper does.
#33
I didn't just shield, I replaced all the pots too. Maybe the caps are different. They're .020µF, dunno what the stock ones were.

I think the feedback is a gain issue. Maybe microphonic. I wax potted them and it helped, but they still do it. It's not terrible though, unless I'm using the maxon. As long as I'm playing there's no feedback, and when I'm not playing I just roll back on the volume.

A volume pedal might work. But right now I've got alot of stuff I've got to try out first. I'm playing with my band tomorrow so I'll see how that goes. And hopefully I can try an elitist sg. I was also talking to someone who had a single rectifier and listening to clips, I'm actually starting to like it more than the dual. But I think at this point I need to figure out if if my guitar is just messed up or something, which would probably be the result of my crappy soldering.
#34
Well, a different cap is a possibility, but still should have no effect, if the tone pot is set to the max, AFAIK. Maybe the pot values were different?

Well, don't think wax-potting was really necessary, as 90% of all pickups these days are wax potted, but that's good to know. There's always gonna be a bit of feedback if you leave your guitar on and are not playing, of course.

Elitist SG's are really nice, from what I hear - comparable to Gibsons, and most certainly better than any of Gibson's entry level models.

As far as your soldering goes, as long as your solder joints are shiny, you did okay.
#35
Well, I'm impressed with the SG. It gets a similar tone to my LP actually, but with more of a trebly punch and less bass. I think that's what I don't like about the LP. It's great alongside the 800 for a grittier ballsy underground sound, but isn't quite good for pop. I think it could use some less specialised pups, since the bridge seems too hot and the neck seems too muddy regardless of height. The SG worked well with the 2000 though, and it sounded amazing through the mix. All in all, I think I learned alot messing with gear today.

Now I'm torn. The 2000 is growing on me, but I still want the mesa. I guess I'll wind up the marshall, using the mesa, and maybe one day I'll grab another 2000. But I've still got to try an EQ and the Bad Monkey with the 800.