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#1
do you think that by creating laws to protect the well-being of all individuals and thereby adhere to the human concept of morality, mankind has interfered with natural selection and moreover stunted evolution?

don't get me wrong. i'm glad we have laws to keep us safe. it's just interesting to think about.

thoughts?
#2
i totalt don't understand what eh **** you;re tlakin abno mate.
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#4
Quote by Dinkydaisy
i totalt don't understand what eh **** you;re tlakin abno mate.



lol

and i'll answer with a resounding 'I. Deh. Ken. '
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#5
No.
Humanity will get more primitive as technology advances, resulting in de-evolution.
Or rather, that's a definite possibility.

And also, if you think about it, natural selection still occurs. People get killed everyday, different situations, but it happens.
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#6
probably
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#7
im gonna go ahead and say maybe
Vikings? What Vikings? We are but poor, simple farmers. The village was burning when we got here, and the people must have slain themselves.
#8
i just mean. like. crossing guards, for instance. we have them to help people from getting hit by oncoming traffic. but one could make the argument, "if you're dumb enough to walk into oncoming traffic, you should be dead anyway."
#10
Quote by konkordmusk
No.
Humanity will get more primitive as technology advances, resulting in de-evolution.
Or rather, that's a definite possibility.

And also, if you think about it, natural selection still occurs. People get killed everyday, different situations, but it happens.

Yea, but people who wouldn't have survived/reproduced if they lived long ago are surviving and, in some cases, reproducing now.
#13
Quote by Arthur Curry
i just mean. like. crossing guards, for instance. we have them to help people from getting hit by oncoming traffic. but one could make the argument, "if you're dumb enough to walk into oncoming traffic, you should be dead anyway."

as awesome as it would be to just let stupid people die
we need people to pump out gas, ***** themselves out, and get killed by traffic for our enjoyment
Vikings? What Vikings? We are but poor, simple farmers. The village was burning when we got here, and the people must have slain themselves.
#15
Quote by Arthur Curry
i just mean. like. crossing guards, for instance. we have them to help people from getting hit by oncoming traffic. but one could make the argument, "if you're dumb enough to walk into oncoming traffic, you should be dead anyway."

Some people are "smart" enough to get hit by a moving vehicle just to sue the car owner for some extra cash.
#18
I think if it doesn't kill us first, then we'll eventually adapt to tolerate higher levels of pollution and all that crap. That or we'll sprout a third eye.
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#19
Quote by frigginjerk
we've stunted evolution, but not because of laws...

it's because humans adapt their environment to suit their needs, rather than the other way around.


i've never thought of that. interesting.
but haven't inventions like cars, guns, etc. become something we're forced to adapt to in a way?
#21
No. One cannot stop evolution unless one completely halts the intermingling of genes. I believe that Europeans as a whole a getting taller.

Natural selection? Maybe. But evolution can exist without natural selection, sort of.
#22
It's wider then just laws, ie healthcare: we're keeping retards alive nowadays and letting them reproduce, AND we're giving them welfare so they can live. It's just not right.

But seriously i see your point to a certain degree, people with no legs back thousands of years ago would just die whereas they can now live happily ever after, but this is the information age and the 'fittest' are those that have the best brain.......to some degree.
#23
Quote by Flying Couch
No. One cannot stop evolution unless one completely halts the intermingling of genes. I believe that Europeans as a whole a getting taller.

Natural selection? Maybe. But evolution can exist without natural selection, sort of.


In the immortal words of Dr Malcolm of Jurassic Park "nature finds a way"

Then again, the saltwater crocodile is practically unevolved for many 100,000s of years. Maybe we've similarly reached the apex of our evolution?
#24
Quote by Garden_Of_Light
Natural selection doesn't apply as strictly to beings with consciousness.


I agree with you (sorta) because its no longer a survival for the fitest or the strongest or even the smartest. some random guy can go anywhere get a gun shoot up a university and rape all the womans and get them pregnant
#25
Quote by Deliriumbassist
In the immortal words of Dr Malcolm of Jurassic Park "nature finds a way"

Then again, the saltwater crocodile is practically unevolved for many 100,000s of years. Maybe we've similarly reached the apex of our evolution?
I think in humanity's case, it's more of a matter of us intermingling so much that there's little possibility for populations to evolve seperately.
#26
Quote by konkordmusk
No.
Humanity will get more primitive as technology advances, resulting in de-evolution.
Or rather, that's a definite possibility.

And also, if you think about it, natural selection still occurs. People get killed everyday, different situations, but it happens.


Dude! Thats my quote in your sig! I remember posting that like 3 days ago!
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#27
Quote by Flying Couch
I think in humanity's case, it's more of a matter of us intermingling so much that there's little possibility for populations to evolve seperately.


Well, yeah, we've covered so much of the planet that allopatric speciation is out of the question.

However, there are still rather small adaptations within our species. Those in hot countries are more tolerant to heat than europeans, for example. As climate changes, I think that those who don't have the "luxury adaptations" we westerners have will show more signs of adapatation.
#28
I agree, hopefully most of the stupid ones will die doing stupid things.
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#29
Everything that happens is because of natural selection. Humans making laws has no effect on the general course of natural selection, except to reinforce the point that the weak (in this case, we deem who is weak) don't survive.
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#30
Quote by Deliriumbassist
Well, yeah, we've covered so much of the planet that allopatric speciation is out of the question.

However, there are still rather small adaptations within our species. Those in hot countries are more tolerant to heat than europeans, for example. As climate changes, I think that those who don't have the "luxury adaptations" we westerners have will show more signs of adapatation.
So... wait, are we actually debating anything? Or are we in total agreement?
Quote by darkstar2466
Everything that happens is because of natural selection. Humans making laws has no effect on the general course of natural selection, except to reinforce the point that the weak (in this case, we deem who is weak) don't survive.
Whether or not that is natural selection is debatable. Some would call it artificial selection.
Quote by Flying Couch
Natural selection? Maybe. But evolution can exist without natural selection, sort of.
That's what I was getting at with the 'sort of.' And no, I am not one of the adherents to that idea.
#31
Quote by Flying Couch
So... wait, are we actually debating anything? Or are we in total agreement?


I don't know, it's 3:30am and I'm surprised I got allopatric speciation into a discussion, lol.

I think what I'm saying is that yeah, there's no way we're going to give rise to independant sub species of humans anymore, but there will still be some evolution due to environmental factors in under-developed parts of the world.
#32
Quote by Deliriumbassist
I don't know, it's 3:30am and I'm surprised I got allopatric speciation into a discussion, lol.

I think what I'm saying is that yeah, there's no way we're going to give rise to independant sub species of humans anymore, but there will still be some evolution due to environmental factors in under-developed parts of the world.
Then yeah, we agree.
#34
Quote by Dinkydaisy
i totalt don't understand what eh **** you;re tlakin abno mate.

+1....
#35
If anything, man has increased his rate of evolution. Man has created roads and airplanes, which allows the spread of ideas and people. This allows desireable mates to find suitors more easily which speeds up the rate of evolution. If there was only village lifestyle without travel, man would evolve more slowly because there would not be as many desireable mates to choose from.
#37
Morality is a spontaneous order, so no, we haven't stunted evolution. One could argue that the development of morality is another kind of evolution, superior to the evolution of genes.
Last edited by julio1987 at Mar 27, 2008,
#38
So... TS... this really hasn't been all that controversial, has it? Everyone just kind said what they thought, then left.
#39
Yes.

Humans control their environment, and thus have no reason to evolve to another point. Natural selection is the survival of the fittest, but in the modern day, survival is not a primary concern of most people in most countries in the world, simply due to how conditions have worked out.
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#40
Social darwinism is a favorite topic of mine.

Not to mention, cross walks and schoolzone speed limits are two of the points I always hear.

I'll freely admit Im a social darwinist, as well as a staunch supporter of laissez fair capitalism.

If your dumb enough to get nailed by a car trying to cross the street, then you likely had it coming. No child left behind, etc, is ruining the natural potential of humanity, but can we really blame it on anything other than what most of us on UG are? The middle class?

Look at 18th and 19th century european middle class, all the sudden they care about healthcare, wellfare, public sanitation, prison reform, etc. Before then, society and man kind had been progressing at a undoubtedly shaky, yet always progressive pace. But when you remove all danger and competition from life, you also remove the ability to succeed, and no one cares if they aren't winning.

So Im in favor of social darwinism, as the only clear natural choice in humanities course.
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