Page 1 of 17
#1
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341574,00.html

Two interesting questions posed by this:

1) Should the parents face punishment?

2) If not, where do we draw the line of allowing people to make religious decisions even though it's against 99% of society's better judgment; if so, how do you justify impinging on this family's religious beliefs?

Discuss.

EDIT: Both parents have been convicted of negligent homicide. See page 16 of this thread (if you're in 40 post per page mode, like any decent human being should be).
Hi, I'm Peter
Last edited by Dirk Gently at Aug 3, 2009,
#2
I'm a Christian, and I believe that God can perform miracles and heal people, but that's just stupid for her parents to do that.
Call me Wes.
Gear:
Fender American Deluxe HSS Strat
Chicago Blues Box Roadhouse
Bad Cat Cougar 5
1957 Gibson GA-5
Ceriatone 18w TMB Combo
Hughes & Kettner Tube Factor
Various Ibanez TS9s
Weber MASS Attenuator
#3
is it required that if someone is sick that you call for help or something? i dont think so...

idk maybe there should be one...
Gear
-Ibanez RG321 ( /w D-Sonic)
-Agile AL-3100 (/w Custom + '59)
-Yamaha FG730S
-Crybaby 535Q
-Keeley TS-9
-ISP Decimator
-B-52 AT-212
Quote by Mental-lica
My hats off to you mr. lanzaa and you can put this in your sig

M en
E jaculating
T o
A wful
L yrics
#4
This is why I can't stand insane religious morons. I think that in cases such as this the parents should be punished without question. They should in the very least be charged with manslaughter if not for child abuse as well.
None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free.
#5
Quote by Dirk Gently
1) Should the parents face punishment?
No.

Quote by Dirk Gently
2) If not, where do we draw the line of allowing people to make religious decisions even though it's against 99% of society's better judgment; if so, how do you justify impinging on this family's religious beliefs?
Not certain, but I think the line should probably be drawn between refusing to take medical action, and actively causing death.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#6
I'm sure its an old christian maxim that God helps those who help themselves.

They should be convicted for neglect.

If someone leaves their kid without feeding them, and then tells the police that they prayed for God to feed the child should they not be punished either?
Last edited by rizo299 at Mar 28, 2008,
#7
Do I think the parents should have taken the child to a doctor? yes... Do I think they should be punished?...no...but I do think they were being unrealistic...Freedom of religion should be exactly that...FREEDOM of religion...if someone doesn't like that religion...don't practice...ultimately, the parents are the ones who have to live with the choices and loss...it's no-one else's right or duty to make the decisions for them.
#10
Finally! Something of genuine discussion material, other than "Hay pit I had sex w/ a girl..."

It's a really sad story, and unfortunately these Christian Scientists (I think that's what they sound like) are denying themselves a much more fruitful life. In this situation though, having them face punishment sounds like they'd play the religious persecution card, stupid as that may be. The last thing we need is another religion/science debate, which will probably answer some of our philosophical questions but fail to pass judgment on the case in question.

To be honest, I can't really answer that question. How would you draw the line on something that intangible like that?
Quote by bigredbeast
how much is 15,000 PHP? I didn't know they played guitar in the Phillipines. I thought they played ukelele or something.


Because, of course, we're too far away from places with guitars and all that stuff so we play ukelele...
#12
Meh, how many lives have prayers saved, and how many did insuline shots save?

You do the maths.


#13
Gah.....

God created medicine and doctors for a reason, It's stupid to believe he will solve your problems YOUR way....
#14
Stuff like this makes me sick. The girl actually might have wanted to go get some medical help. Instead, she puts her life in "God's hands."

I feel so sorry for the girl.
"Punk is a state of mind, and no one can take that away from you."
#15
thats gotta be against some parental negligence law or something


LTD EX-351
Peavey 5150 head
Marshall 1960A
Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor
BBE 482i Sonic Maximizer
#16
Yikes, if those people really knew the Bible, they would have understood that this is Satan;s world for now, until the end, and would have taken her to a doctor.
Originally posted by J_Dizzle
THAAAANK YOU GoodCharloteSux is god
Last edited by GoodCharloteSux at Mar 28, 2008,
#18
Quote by blynd_snyper
They should face negligence charges but not manslaughter/murder charges.
lol wut?

What are "negligence charges"?
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#19
this is a sticky situation. i think a person should have a right to health care when necessary, but being a minor, she didn't really have any rights. it was her parent's decision to take her or not; so technically, they didn't do anything illegal (maybe child neglect?).

they do have the right to believe in what they want, and if those beliefs kill them, then that's their choice.
My Guitars:
One
Two
Quote by The Needles
All the kids in the coffee houses
try to act like they know what loud is
all they know is an electric beat
if you're rockin to this, you'll be rockin with me!
#20
Quote by Bryaaaaan350
Do I think the parents should have taken the child to a doctor? yes... Do I think they should be punished?...no...but I do think they were being unrealistic...Freedom of religion should be exactly that...FREEDOM of religion...if someone doesn't like that religion...don't practice...ultimately, the parents are the ones who have to live with the choices and loss...it's no-one else's right or duty to make the decisions for them.

Well, in this case, the ability to make a decision directly impacts someone else. Do you think their freedom of religion, then, surpasses culpability their responsibilities as parents? It's not as if we're talking about some act or some intangible idea, we're talking about their exercise of religious freedom causing a direct negative effect to someone else.
Hi, I'm Peter
#21
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
lol wut?

What are "negligence charges"?


neglecting the childs needs


LTD EX-351
Peavey 5150 head
Marshall 1960A
Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor
BBE 482i Sonic Maximizer
#22
Can't we all pray those parents die?

god... this is exactly the reason why I hate religion
It makes people do the weirdest and most of the time worst things ever
#23
Quote by Bryaaaaan350
ultimately, the parents are the ones who have to live with the choices and loss

If you ignore the child that is.

If parents left a child without food they would be prosecuted for negligence. The same should apply to medical care.
It was the parents responsibility to ensure that their child received medical attention.
They should be prosecuted for not fulfilling that responsibility, considering they would be prosecuted for not fulfilling the responsibility to ensure their child received an education, and any other children should be taken away.

e responsibility for the child's death rests with them and them alone (unless you want to sue God for malpractice or something)
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#24
This happens quite often and it's a real grey area for me. On one hand, they were practicing the most cherished freedom of our country; on the other, they caused the needless death of a young child.

It's up in the air for me.
Sincerely, Chad.
Quote by LP Addict
LP doesnt have to stand for les paul.. it can stand for.... lesbian porn.
#25
Quote by NielsWho
Meh, how many lives have prayers saved, and how many did insuline shots save?

You do the maths.


prayer has been scientifically proven to work...its completely psychological...but has been proven to work in certain cases
#26
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
lol wut?

What are "negligence charges"?


Negligent charges such as: Child endangerment
Originally posted by J_Dizzle
THAAAANK YOU GoodCharloteSux is god
#27
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
lol wut?

What are "negligence charges"?

Charges for being a negligent parent. They should have their kids taken away or at least be forced to take a parenting course. Ultimately, the girl died because they didn't take proper care of her, they should be treated just as you would treat somebody who locked their kid in the basement for 5 years.
#28
seems like these parents crossed into the realm of mental illness seeing as how they still think their daughter may be resurrected

need some psychiatric help, that way they can really understand what they did. only then will they be able to get what they rightly have coming: lifelong guilt and suffering
#29
This isn't anything really new, they're Christian Scientists, they believe that medicine is wrong and that illness can be cured through prayer. It's quite wrong, but it's nothing new. James Hetfield (Metallica) was brought up in Christian Science, his mother died to breast cancer; and I don't think he's lost his faith (I think he's a Christian, maybe).

FREDIT: Wow, I just found out that they're not even a part of a religion, so they're not Christian nutjobs, just nutjobs.
Quote by DrewsGotTheLife
yea man, who ever doesnt like pantera or think they suck doesnt like metal, end of discussion, they changed the freakin world n made history, so don't be sayin they suck, have respect, same goes for machine head n lamb of god cuz their good too
Last edited by freddaahh at Mar 28, 2008,
#30
Quote by blynd_snyper
Charges for being a negligent parent. They should have their kids taken away or at least be forced to take a parenting course. Ultimately, the girl died because they didn't take proper care of her, they should be treated just as you would treat somebody who locked their kid in the basement for 5 years.

Quote by lepermessiah22
neglecting the childs needs
Give me the name of a LEGAL term other than Negligent Homicide that fits here.
Meadows
Quote by Jackal58
I release my inner liberal every morning when I take a shit.
Quote by SK8RDUDE411
I wont be like those jerks who dedicate their beliefs to logic and reaosn.
#31
well, if there really was a god the little girl wouldn't have died. so if the parents are true believers, they are not now. there is no god and this is just one more thing to toss into the ocean full of proof there is no god. i hope they get thrown in jail for the rest of their lives for believing in such a lost cause.
#32
Quote by Chordzzz
seems like these parents crossed into the realm of mental illness seeing as how they still think their daughter may be resurrected

need some psychiatric help, that way they can really understand what they did. only then will they be able to get what they rightly have coming: lifelong guilt and suffering

If they believe in that hocus-pocus to begin with, I doubt there's any fixing them. You can't fix stupid.
Sincerely, Chad.
Quote by LP Addict
LP doesnt have to stand for les paul.. it can stand for.... lesbian porn.
#33
Quote by Dirk Gently
1) Should the parents face punishment?


Yes. The child could've been saved if she was taken to the hospital. This is like praying your child doesn't shoot themselves if they're playing with your gun.

Quote by Dirk Gently
[2) If not, where do we draw the line of allowing people to make religious decisions even though it's against 99% of society's better judgment; if so, how do you justify impinging on this family's religious beliefs?


How are you impinging on their religious beliefs by charging them for child neglect? It could be my religious belief that all white people should be murdered, is that to say I can't be arrested for carrying out my belief?
Proud Owner of a Fender Jazz 24 V

Private Simmons of the Red vs. Blue club. PM Fret13 to join.

Things to come:
Carvin or Trace-elliot rig
EBS Valvedrive (Newest edition )
#34
DirkEdit: Keep the comments constructive.
"Punk is a state of mind, and no one can take that away from you."
#35
Quote by Ur all $h1t
It was the parents responsibility to ensure that their child received medical attention. They should be prosecuted for not fulfilling that responsibility


what if you can't afford the treatment? should you go to jail for being poor? TS's example would probably be affordable, but there are a lot of things that are hard to pay for.
My Guitars:
One
Two
Quote by The Needles
All the kids in the coffee houses
try to act like they know what loud is
all they know is an electric beat
if you're rockin to this, you'll be rockin with me!
#36
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
Give me the name of a LEGAL term other than Negligent Homicide that fits here.

Malpractice.

On God's part of course.
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#38
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
Give me the name of a LEGAL term other than Negligent Homicide that fits here.

I'm not a lawyer, I wouldn't know the legal terms, but I know that if a parent neglects their children then they get punished for it.

EDIT:
Quote by Punks|Not|Dead
DirkEdit: Keep the comments constructive.

Hahaha, I've never seen a mod do that before.
#39
Quote by apollo718
what if you can't afford the treatment? should you go to jail for being poor? TS's example would probably be affordable, but there are a lot of things that are hard to pay for.

Nope. They would have had to make sure the child didn't die if she was taken to the hospital regardless of income
"Why should we subsidise intellectual curiosity?"
-Ronald Reagan

"Knowledge is in every country the surest basis of public happiness."
-George Washington
#40
Quote by SomeoneYouKnew
Give me the name of a LEGAL term other than Negligent Homicide that fits here.

Negligent manslaughter? i dont know dude im not some attorney or paralegal. However, i do know that what the kid needed was some kind of health care and the parents neglected that need.


LTD EX-351
Peavey 5150 head
Marshall 1960A
Boss NS-2 Noise Supressor
BBE 482i Sonic Maximizer