#1
so for example A# is the same Bb?

just need a confirmation

thanks in advance
#4
On instruments like piano and guitar, yes, but for some other instruments like brass or strings because of tuning they are actually made as different notes
Quote by mustaineNslash
i know this sounds stupid but...
wheres the sig button??

(sry)


#5
yes

there's no such thing as B#, that's C
and no such thing as E#, that's F
those're the only two half steps between whole notes
#7
in some music they use e# or Bb to make room for other notes


Quote by Spoonman69
Rap is music,far better than metal for example. id much rather hear about hoes and anal sex than dragons and supressed homosexuality.
#8
Quote by BluesLP1990
yes

there's no such thing as B#, that's C
and no such thing as E#, that's F
those're the only two half steps between whole notes


Notes like B#, E#, even Cb and Fb actually exist. Like z4twenny said before, it is enharmonic, so your B# will sound like a C, but in theory it not the same note. For example, in a E augmented chord (1 3 #5), the notes will be E G# B#, and not E G# C because C is not in a E augmented chord. It is pure theory
I like rusty spoons...!
#9
Quote by BluesLP1990
yes. There's no such thing as B#, that's C, and no such thing as E#, that's F.
You are mistaken, friend. B#, Cb, E# and Fb do indeed exist, without question. In fact, the keys of C# major / A# minor would be impossible without B#. The other notes are just as essential for the existence of other keys. This stuff is at the A-B-C level of theory. If you don't understand it, please find a competent teacher and invest some time and money in your musical education.
All things are difficult before they are easy.
- Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
Quote by Freepower
For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
#10
Quote by Tsen
so for example A# is the same Bb?

just need a confirmation

thanks in advance



yes they are the same note.... or same pitch.

if you get into theory, there will be times where its important to differentiate between the 2, as you can see from the arguments that have already started, but if you just are trying to confirm that the note on the 6th string 6th fret is an A#, but could also be called Bb.... then consider it confirmed.
shred is gaudy music
#13
Quote by MopMaster
Play a B#, then. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't play it it may as well not exist.
Of course you can play it. Prove it to yourself:




        How do we know this? Because there is no tone C in a G# major chord!

        Now, that was pretty painless, wasn't it?
        All things are difficult before they are easy.
        - Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
        Quote by Freepower
        For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
        #14
        Quote by gpb0216
        Of course you can play it. Prove it to yourself:




              How do we know this? Because there is no tone C in a G# major chord!

              Now, that was pretty painless, wasn't it?
              But but but, that's a C note!





              /joke
              #15
              Quote by bangoodcharlote
              But but but, that's a C note!





              /joke
              This stuff's a lot of fun, isn't it?
              All things are difficult before they are easy.
              - Dr. Thomas Fuller (British physician, 1654-1734)
              Quote by Freepower
              For everything you need to know - gpb0216.
              #16
              Quote by MopMaster
              Play a B#, then. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't play it it may as well not exist.


              If you took lessons, instead of being self taught, you might have gotten the "complete" picture and understand this concept.

              Quote by MopMaster


              Anyhow, back to music... I find it a lot easier to teach myself, 'coz that way I can look at things from my own perspective instead of looking through the teacher's eyes. Same applies universally, I want the absolute and complete picture, not what I need to know at the time.

              [/rant]
              shred is gaudy music
              #17
              Enharmonic notes sound the same as one another, but from a written music perspective, they are not the same. You wouldn't play a Gb in the key of G. It would be an F#. You wouldn't play a C# in the key of Cb, it would be Db, etc.
              #18
              For most people in most applications, things CAN be simplified - or OVERsimplified - to say that B#=C, etc. Or even that G#=Ab.

              But, keep in mind, that there are dangers in oversimplifying. The G# chord example above is a good example where B# does NOT = C - even though on the guitar, they are played in the same place. This difference is explained by pretty elementary theory and knowledge of scale and chord structures. Not hard, but useful and important to anyone who cares enough to take it up a level.

              From there, and this involves some pretty heavy math, knowledge of how math was applied throughout music history as we progressed through "non" temperment, then equal-temperment, and more recently, well-tempered instruments. Mathematically, for an instrument to play in tune across a variety of keys, compromises need to be made where some notes are different than where they should mathematically lie, just to make things 'work' and sound right. Technically (on an instrument that can produce virtually any pitch - not one that is restricted to semitones like guitar or piano), there is a small difference between B# and C, and between G# and Ab. On well-tempered instruments like piano and guitar, the best compromise is that they are played the same, and indeed, come off sounding as the same pitch.

              CT
              Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

              I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

              Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
              #19
              Quote by axemanchris
              For most people in most applications, things CAN be simplified - or OVERsimplified - to say that B#=C, etc. Or even that G#=Ab.

              But, keep in mind, that there are dangers in oversimplifying. The G# chord example above is a good example where B# does NOT = C - even though on the guitar, they are played in the same place. This difference is explained by pretty elementary theory and knowledge of scale and chord structures. Not hard, but useful and important to anyone who cares enough to take it up a level.

              From there, and this involves some pretty heavy math, knowledge of how math was applied throughout music history as we progressed through "non" temperment, then equal-temperment, and more recently, well-tempered instruments. Mathematically, for an instrument to play in tune across a variety of keys, compromises need to be made where some notes are different than where they should mathematically lie, just to make things 'work' and sound right. Technically (on an instrument that can produce virtually any pitch - not one that is restricted to semitones like guitar or piano), there is a small difference between B# and C, and between G# and Ab. On well-tempered instruments like piano and guitar, the best compromise is that they are played the same, and indeed, come off sounding as the same pitch.

              CT


              I agree with what you just said however....

              I think that stuff makes sense to someone that knows a bit about music, but if you were just picking up a guitar, and learning the musical alphabet....realizing that the note on the 6th string 4th fret is a G#, but can also be Ab...... is enough. Im not sure I would take it any further than that until the person is at a level to make sense of all that.

              Its when you get into theory that it becomes important. Just for basic knowledge of the fretboard..... I think the G# = Ab perspective is fine.

              just my 2 cents.

              (Im assuming the TS is not yet acquainted with music theory, but is just beginning to play. Maybe im wrong.)
              shred is gaudy music
              Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 28, 2008,
              #20
              Quote by MopMaster
              Play a B#, then. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't play it it may as well not exist.


              Oh Sh**!

              I just got a new sig!
              #21
              LOL

              @GuitarMunky - agreed entirely.

              CT
              Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

              I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

              Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
              #23
              Quote by TheShred201
              Where it get's tricky is when you have double sharps and double flats :-)


              To have that make a bit of sense:

              Cº7 = 1 b3 b5 bb7

              º is full diminished, fyi. Putting a 6 is incorrect, even though the notes are enharmonic.
              #25
              X is close enough that the meaning should be clear to anyone familiar with the concept.

              CT
              Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

              I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

              Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
              #27
              Still don't really get that... If 2 notes sound the same, surely they should be named the same? And surely, B# should be somewhere between B and C pitch-wise?

              I blame God for not making an octave 16 tones long. =P


              Quote by Avedas
              Quote by MopMaster

              Play a B#, then. As far as I'm concerned, if you can't play it it may as well not exist.


              Oh Sh**!

              I just got a new sig!


              The ever joys of having no idea what you're talking about but still being sentient enough to talk...
              #28
              Quote by MopMaster
              Still don't really get that... If 2 notes sound the same, surely they should be named the same? And surely, B# should be somewhere between B and C pitch-wise?


              They sound the same, but they're used at different times; in music using quarter-step systems, B# would be between B and C. In our musical system, however, they're two different ways of referring to a specific pitch used at different times. For example, going back to the B#/E# thread a bit;

              A augmented (1 #3 #5) - A C# E#
              G# major (1 3 5) - G# B# D#

              A C# E# may sound the same as A C# F, but if you attempt to argue with people that they're the same chord you'll be laughed out of the room. And possibly sigged again.
              #29
              No, they are enharmonic. The different names exist because you can't have flats and sharps in the same key signature, and you can't have the same letter name twice in a key signature.