#1
Okay, I understand what Diatonic Triads are and how to figure them out but I ran into a little bump in the road when trying to figure out the diatonic chords in keys like F# and C#.

I was looking at a thread about the notes E# and B# and as I know them they only exists in the keys of F# and C#. So that got me thinking like when you run into the note "E#" how do you figure out its Diatonic Chord in the key of say F# major? As far as I know there is no key of E# or B#, so do you just plug in F and C instead?
Well, I looked around online for an answer to this but I couldn't find anything that made sense to me... I was told that its E#o (diminished) but I don't know how to arrive at that conclusion.

Thanks
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#2
Quote by mz44_d
Okay, I understand what Diatonic Triads are and how to figure them out but I ran into a little bump in the road when trying to figure out the diatonic chords in keys like F# and C#.

I was looking at a thread about the notes E# and B# and as I know them they only exists in the keys of F# and C#. So that got me thinking like when you run into the note "E#" how do you figure out its Diatonic Chord in the key of say F# major? As far as I know there is no key of E# or B#, so do you just plug in F and C instead?
Well, I looked around online for an answer to this but I couldn't find anything that made sense to me... I was told that its E#o (diminished) but I don't know how to arrive at that conclusion.

Thanks


The seventh degree of F# major is E#. The triad built on it uses the notes E#, G#, B. That is a diminished triad.
#3
E# = F
B# = C
C## = D
Ebb = D

just a little table there to help you in the future, and I'm not kidding about the double sharps and double flats, they actually exist.
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#4
the thing about diatonic theory is that the note names must remain the same, so E# and B# must be used. even though they are played in the same way and sound the same, since they are enharmonically equivalent, E# and B# are not the same as F and C. The keys in which they are found in provide the context for their triad qualities. in F# major, E#o is simply E#, G#, and B to create that dimished 5th. i hope this (kinda) answered your question
#5
Quote by M.B.MetalTabber
E# = F
B# = C
C## = D
Ebb = D

just a little table there to help you in the future, and I'm not kidding about the double sharps and double flats, they actually exist.


Double sharps should be notated with an "X" so CX is said "C Double-Sharp". C## is an incorrect way of notating CX
#6
Quote by mz44_d
Okay, I understand what Diatonic Triads are and how to figure them out but I ran into a little bump in the road when trying to figure out the diatonic chords in keys like F# and C#.

I was looking at a thread about the notes E# and B# and as I know them they only exists in the keys of F# and C#. So that got me thinking like when you run into the note "E#" how do you figure out its Diatonic Chord in the key of say F# major? As far as I know there is no key of E# or B#, so do you just plug in F and C instead?
Well, I looked around online for an answer to this but I couldn't find anything that made sense to me... I was told that its E#o (diminished) but I don't know how to arrive at that conclusion.

Thanks


If you can figure out the diatonic triads in C.... you can do it in F# or C#. The process is exactly the same.
shred is gaudy music
#7
Quote by isaac_bandits
Double sharps should be notated with an "X" so CX is said "C Double-Sharp". C## is an incorrect way of notating CX

The grade 3 - 5 theory books show it as ##, so that was how I said it, I think grade 6 - 8 start talking about it with X's, but I have not read the Grade 6 book yet
Quote by uvq
yeah fire him secretly... thats what im doing except im firing myself and secretly joining someone elses band

Quote by Jekkyl
If you get a virus by looking at porn, is it considered a sexually-transmitted disease?

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thanks for the compliment man!
#8
Quote by M.B.MetalTabber
The grade 3 - 5 theory books show it as ##, so that was how I said it, I think grade 6 - 8 start talking about it with X's, but I have not read the Grade 6 book yet



I've seen it written both ways.
shred is gaudy music
#9
Quote by M.B.MetalTabber
The grade 3 - 5 theory books show it as ##, so that was how I said it, I think grade 6 - 8 start talking about it with X's, but I have not read the Grade 6 book yet


My preliminary theory book had it notated as X, and so did the Grade 1, 2, and 3 books. I have not yet done 4 or 5 yet, and with the system I do, grade 5 is the highest level.
#10
Cpu's f'ing up, the one below this is what I wanted to post.
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Last edited by mz44_d at Mar 29, 2008,
#11
Quote by GuitarMunky
If you can figure out the diatonic triads in C.... you can do it in F# or C#. The process is exactly the same.


C

C (I)
D (ii) R, m3, P5
E (iii) R, m3, P5
F (IV) R, M3, P5
G (V) R, M3 P5
A (vi) R, m3, P5
B (viio) R, m3, 05

I understand how to figure them out, the notes E# and B# are just throwing me off for some reason. Thanks for the explinations guys, I'm sure you're right, I'm just confused as hell. lmao
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#12
Sorry for the double post, my computer is freezing up big time over here....
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#13
Quote by mz44_d
C

C (I)
D (ii) R m3 P5
E (iii) R m3 P5
F (IV) R M3 P5

...and so on

I understand how to figure them out I'm just confused with the notes E# and B# that appear in the keys of F# and C#. Thanks for the explinations guys, I know what you're saying is right but I'm still confused as hell. lmao



get your harmonized scale like this:

C Major


C ,D,E,F,G,A,B,C

stack 3rd on each notes using notes from the scale. Forget about the R M3 P5 approach for now.


I: C, E, G
ii: D,F,A
iii: E,G,B
IV: F,A,C
V: G,B,D
vi: A,C,E
vii0: B,D,F


Now do that same process with ANY scale.


The R M3 P5 approach is great for differentiating between the types of triads, however it does not give you a perspective on how to build chords on each step.

just stack in 3rds.... using only the notes in that scale. Its as simple as that.

Let me know if you understand this. Try it in a few keys and let me see what you come up with. Dont go for the hardest key 1st. Try like G or D Major..... if you get it right..... then try the more complicated keys.


If you dont have your key signatures memorized you can use this:

shred is gaudy music
#14
Thanks GuitarMunky, I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying 100% but I'll look at it some more and see if I can figure it out.
My shredding attracts small birds….

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#15
Quote by mz44_d
Thanks GuitarMunky, I'm not sure that I understand what you're saying 100% but I'll look at it some more and see if I can figure it out.



its simple:

you have the C major scale

C D E F G A B C

take any one of those notes, and stack 3rds on top of it. (basically thats every other note).

for instance to make a triad based on the E note, just start on E...( skip F ).... G... (skip A)....B . this gives you E G B. Those are the notes of the E triad that belongs in C Major.... (and it happens to be an E minor triad....as the iii chord always is in a Major key)

Do that on each scale step and you will have the correct notes for each triad. just stick with the key signature. In C its easy, no sharps or flats.

C Major scale: C D E F G A B
------------------------E F G A B C D
----------------------- G A B C D E F


Ill try to help you. Answer this question.....

In G Major ( G,A,B,C,D,E,F#)

What are the notes in the triad built from the D (5th step)
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 29, 2008,
#16
In G Major its D F# A (V)

That's what you're asking, right?
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#17
Quote by mz44_d
In G Major its D F# A (V)

That's what you're asking, right?


yup you got it..... do you understand what I was saying now?

because if you do than you can do the same for the keys of F# and C#

know the key signature
build triads by stacking 3rds on each step of the scale.

this will always give you the correct notes.

again the R M3 P5 perspective helps you differentiate between the type of triad, but to find diatonic triads in a key its as simple as stacking 3rds on each scale step.

hope that helped.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Mar 29, 2008,