#2
4 beats = 4 crotchets
Crotchets look like this p but the `p' bit is shaded in
Crotchets equal one beat in 4/4 time
If things were in 1/1 time it would be very extremly fast notes being played ( 1 beat=1 Crotchet ) ( in Piano it is usually 1 note )
Also there are things like quavers, minums and stuff

pp to quavers equal one beat ( crotchet 1 beat in 4/4 time )
p Minum is a `p' without any colour in it, Minum equal 2 beats ( 2 crotchets 2 beats in 4/4 time)
o Semibreve is like a circle with no colour in it, Semibreve is 4 beats ( 4 crotchets or 1 hole bar in 4/4/ time )

This is pretty messy and messed up, but I hope I answered your question.
My cancer spot is much bigger than yours

Quote by HumBucker666
I get carrot skinned regularly by a electrified carrot skinning device

Quote by GrEgUms1991
I have a small penis if that counts?



^ some pretty awesome sh!t ( click )


Europeans Unite!
#3
1/1 would be 1 beat per measure.

4/4 is 4 beats per measure.

Or something like that. I cant help you much cause time is giving me a difficult...um...time as well.
#6
1/1 would mean that there is only one beat and a whole note is equal to the one beat....so if you played a quarter it would be a quarter for each beat...in other words you could fin in four quarters into one beat which would probably mess peaple up a lot.
Quote by RetroGunslinger
this is like comparing a flushing toilet to a hole in the ground
#7
1/1 would refer to one measure per bar; the /1 part would indicate that that measure is a brieve (the longest basic time denomination). 4/4 means 4 crotchet beat per bar (the /4 part indicating a quarter note ( crotchet), as there are 4 in a brieve (/1) ).

So while you are right that, at the same tempo, 1/1 and 4/4 would progress at the same speed, the rhythms of each piece would be hugely different. Things such as the beaming of notes would be affected greatly to create a one beat feel; techniques suchas syncopation and anticipation rely on off-beats or divisions of beats; if there is just one, everything becomes extremely complex and muddled, particularly in its notated form (sheet music mainly i guess). Dividing a bar up into four beats makes it much easy to write, as well as play, which is important cus if things were hard most people wouldnt do them.

If ive understood my theory correctly, that ought to answer your question :S
Quote by the humanity
You will be the High Lowlord's High Lowlife!



Ibanez EDB 550
Laney RB6
#8
because 1/1 would look stupid and there would be too many measure to count
#9
Quote by fifer
1/1 would mean that there is only one beat and a whole note is equal to the one beat....so if you played a quarter it would be a quarter for each beat...in other words you could fin in four quarters into one beat which would probably mess peaple up a lot.

you sir are wrong....1/1 can only fit 1 quarter note..not 4....1 quarter note=2 8th notes=4 16th notes=16 32th notes...and so forth
#10
its not math thats why in math yes 4/4 equal 1 or 1/1 but in music 4/4 is 4 beats while 1/1 would be 1 which would be useless for anything that dosent have blinding speed to it
#11
Quote by Dyers
you sir are wrong....1/1 can only fit 1 quarter note..not 4....1 quarter note=2 8th notes=4 16th notes=16 32th notes...and so forth


For a bar to be one quarter note it would need to be 1/4. eg. 3/4 lasts 3 crotchets, 1/4 lasts 1 crotchet

I was wrong however, i totally forgot semibrieves. 1 brieve is 2 semibrieves/4 mimims/8 crotchets... 1/1 surely cant refer to a 1 brieve bar? i think this because 1/2 refers to a 1 minim bar, and so surely the next step up, 1/1, is 1 semibreve?

We need some expert help
Quote by the humanity
You will be the High Lowlord's High Lowlife!



Ibanez EDB 550
Laney RB6
#12
Quote by Dyers
you sir are wrong....1/1 can only fit 1 quarter note..not 4....1 quarter note=2 8th notes=4 16th notes=16 32th notes...and so forth


you sir a wring, what you are describing is 1/4.
Quote by RetroGunslinger
this is like comparing a flushing toilet to a hole in the ground
#13
I tried changing 4/4 by 1/1 on a guitar pro tab an it works exactly the same, so I guess I'm right :p

You can put a lot notes on a 4/4 bar, why would 1/1 be different?. That only whole note is dividable just like the 4 quaters.
#14
its not the same. dont you understand what 4/4 means??? 4 beats in one measure, and the quarter note gets one beat. 1/1 then means that there is one beat in each measure and the whole note (thats why its 1) takes up one beat. so if you wanted to play a quarter note then you would probably wouldnt get it right since each beat would last so long, you would kind of have to guess where the half point of the beat is......its useless, unless you are only going to use whole notes and maybe half notes...
Quote by RetroGunslinger
this is like comparing a flushing toilet to a hole in the ground
#15
are you saying that a 4/4 can only take 4 notes?. That's so not true.

Why does 1/1 work the same as 4/4 on guitarpro if it isn't the same?

Sorry if I'm being a moron
#16
nooooo, 4/4 can only take 4 quarters like it says. the top number states how many beats per measur, the bottom number just says which note gets one beat. so if its 6/8 that means that there are 6 beats and the 8th note gets one beat, so there are 6 8th notes in each measure...ao if it was 1/1 that would mean that there is one beat per measure, and a whole note gets the one beat...I dont understand why you arent getting it (not to be rude) but just remember the top number is the number of beats, the bottom number is the note duration that is equal to one beat..
Quote by RetroGunslinger
this is like comparing a flushing toilet to a hole in the ground
#17
but the 4/4 can take 8 8ths notes instead of 4 quarters, right?. Then why couldn't the 1/1 (one whole note) be filled with 2 halfs, 4 quarters, etc.?

I don't get your point
Last edited by frusciante.ve at Apr 2, 2008,
#18
Here's my take on this. While 4/4, 2/2, 1/1, etc. certainly look the same on paper, the feel of the music implied by the various time signatures is completely different. I've played a couple percussion solo pieces that were written in 2/2, and getting the feel right took some adjusting. It's kind of like how a 6/8 time signature isn't just 6 straight eighth notes, it more implies a galloping set of 2 triplets feel.

So, in a sense you're actually more right than most of the people that have commented so far, but you're not quite right. They are not exactly the same.

I'm not trying to be rude in any way, but as a drummer/percussionist... we don't learn notes... all that time that everyone else is learning notes... we're studying rhythms... we learn rhythms inside and out, backwards and forwards. So, to those of you that have said it would only be good for playing fast... time signature has no bearing on tempo. And to those that have said it would be hard or impossible to play a quarter note or mess people up... just because it's one beat, doesn't mean you can't subdivide it.
Quote by Absent Mind
The guitar is all like 'look at me I am t3h bro0talz'

but the guy looks as though hes saying 'meh not quite bro0tal enough'

which is worrying
Last edited by nichos at Apr 2, 2008,
#19
interesting, but I don't understand how the same notes would sound different in two different time signatures that use the same amount of notes.
#20
The notes wouldn't sound any different, just the feel of it would be different. Like I said before, it's similar to how playing a measure of 6/8 time doesn't feel the same as playing 6 eighth notes in 4/4 time. They could have the exact same notes, the exact same rhythms and yet feel totally different. It's difficult to explain in words, but in 4/4 eighths are choppy, and in 6/8 they are gallopy.
Quote by Absent Mind
The guitar is all like 'look at me I am t3h bro0talz'

but the guy looks as though hes saying 'meh not quite bro0tal enough'

which is worrying
#21
Quote by frusciante.ve
interesting, but I don't understand how the same notes would sound different in two different time signatures that use the same amount of notes.


ok imagine trying to play a 8th on one beat per measur. you know to play an 8th on 4 beats because it takes up half a beat, but for 1/1 an 8th would take an 8th of the beat, which would be VERY hard to play....
Quote by RetroGunslinger
this is like comparing a flushing toilet to a hole in the ground
#22
Quote by fifer
ok imagine trying to play a 8th on one beat per measur. you know to play an 8th on 4 beats because it takes up half a beat, but for 1/1 an 8th would take an 8th of the beat, which would be VERY hard to play....


They wouldn't be any harder to play than they are in 4/4. There's still 4 quarter notes per measure... still 8 eighth notes per measure... still 16 sixteenth notes per measure. A measure of 1/1 at 20 bpm would be no more difficult to play than a measure of 4/4 at 80 bpm. The only difference is that while in 4/4 the quarter notes have a "Strong pulse, Weak pulse, Medium pulse, Weak pulse" feel to them, in 1/1 there is a strong pulse or surge of energy at the beginning of each measure which then fades... so each measure would sort of feel like a wave crashing and then rolling up the shore. FWIW, a 2/2 measure has a distinct rocking back and forth sort of tick-tock of a clock feel.
Quote by Absent Mind
The guitar is all like 'look at me I am t3h bro0talz'

but the guy looks as though hes saying 'meh not quite bro0tal enough'

which is worrying
Last edited by nichos at Apr 2, 2008,
#23
Quote by Ouch_needles
For a bar to be one quarter note it would need to be 1/4. eg. 3/4 lasts 3 crotchets, 1/4 lasts 1 crotchet

I was wrong however, i totally forgot semibrieves. 1 brieve is 2 semibrieves/4 mimims/8 crotchets... 1/1 surely cant refer to a 1 brieve bar? i think this because 1/2 refers to a 1 minim bar, and so surely the next step up, 1/1, is 1 semibreve?

We need some expert help


In 4/4

Breve = 8 Beats
Semibreve = 4 Beats
Minim = 2 Bets
Crochet = 1 Beat
Quaver = 1/2 Beat

1/1:

To work out a meter you have to divide the bar by the "denominator" of the time signature, which in this case is the right hand 1. So 1 divided by 1 is 1. That means that the bar is split into a semibreve per beat. It also indicates by the numerator (the left hand 1) that there is one semibreve per bar. So yes, 1/1 is exactly the same as 4/4, and would be written the same in sheet music (apart from the different time signature obviously).

The reason that 4/4 is more widely used is a historical one; composers and conductors were more able to keep instruments in their orchestras in time with 4 beats (as I'm sure you all know, conductors keep musicians in time buy moving their hands to the beats of a bar) because there was more movement from the conductor. It is far easier to play crochets and quavers with a conductor in 4/4 than in 1/1.
...
#24
In 1/1 to play quarter notes you would have to subdivide the beat to 1-e-and-a. In 4/4 to play quarter notes the measure would look like 1-2-3-4, each beat would be the same length but a quarter note would be shorter in 1/1 than in 4/4 at the same tempo.
#25
Quote by hippiebass
In 1/1 to play quarter notes you would have to subdivide the beat to 1-e-and-a. In 4/4 to play quarter notes the measure would look like 1-2-3-4, each beat would be the same length but a quarter note would be shorter in 1/1 than in 4/4 at the same tempo.


True, but the original question was implying adjusting the tempo accordingly for the new time signature in order to get an equivalent piece of music.
Quote by Absent Mind
The guitar is all like 'look at me I am t3h bro0talz'

but the guy looks as though hes saying 'meh not quite bro0tal enough'

which is worrying
#26
Quote by Ouch_needles
1/1 would refer to one measure per bar; the /1 part would indicate that that measure is a brieve (the longest basic time denomination). 4/4 means 4 crotchet beat per bar (the /4 part indicating a quarter note ( crotchet), as there are 4 in a brieve (/1) ).

So while you are right that, at the same tempo, 1/1 and 4/4 would progress at the same speed, the rhythms of each piece would be hugely different. Things such as the beaming of notes would be affected greatly to create a one beat feel; techniques suchas syncopation and anticipation rely on off-beats or divisions of beats; if there is just one, everything becomes extremely complex and muddled, particularly in its notated form (sheet music mainly i guess). Dividing a bar up into four beats makes it much easy to write, as well as play, which is important cus if things were hard most people wouldnt do them.

If ive understood my theory correctly, that ought to answer your question :S


Holy ****, if this wasnt this long, i would sig this explanation, propably the most confusing piece of advice i have ever seen. I know all the stuff you said there and still i had extreme difficulties to read and understand that post.
My gear:

Schecter C-1 Classic
Squier Fat Strat Deluxe
Yamaha FG700 Acoustic
Old Nylonstrung Acoustic

Peavey Classic 50w 2/12
Roland Cube 30X
Roland Cube 60 (30~ years old)
Vox 847A Wah Pedal
Digitech Bad Monkey
Old Ibanez Rack Delay
#27
My take is that in general, the quarter note is more common that the whole note in most western music, so the concept of 4 quarter notes per measure relates to the music that is to be played better than one whole note a measure. In other words, as an element of timing, tapping your foot four times a measure is more percussive than say an organ key held down for a whole note once per measure.
#28
it would be hard to play an 8th note because there there isnt a beat to separate the quarters there is one beat to separate the wholes...


edit:

so like if you were in 4/4 then you could go like this:

note duration: 4th 4th 4th 4th / 4th 4th 4th 4th
beats: 1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4

in 1/1 it wuold be like this:

note duration: 4th 4th 4th 4th / 4th 4th 4th 4th
beats: 1 1

I dont know about you but it would be so hard to devide those four and play then into one beat...I would get lost and play it too fast or slaw...
Quote by RetroGunslinger
this is like comparing a flushing toilet to a hole in the ground
Last edited by fifer at Apr 2, 2008,
#29
Quote by fifer
it would be hard to play an 8th note because there there isnt a beat to separate the quarters there is one beat to separate the wholes...


edit:

so like if you were in 4/4 then you could go like this:

note duration: 4th 4th 4th 4th / 4th 4th 4th 4th
beats: 1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4

in 1/1 it wuold be like this:

note duration: 4th 4th 4th 4th / 4th 4th 4th 4th
beats: 1 1

I dont know about you but it would be so hard to devide those four and play then into one beat...I would get lost and play it too fast or slaw...


1/1 would not be


note duration: 4th 4th 4th 4th / 4th 4th 4th 4th
beats:                1                 1


it would be this


note duration: 4th 4th 4th 4th / 4th 4th 4th 4th
beats:         1                 1


And you can subdivide it in your mind as 1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4, or 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & / 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &, or as sixteenths or whatever you like.

Let's put it this way... playing a measure of 8ths in 1/1 time is exactly the same as, and is no harder than, playing one quarter note's worth of 32nds in 4/4 time at a tempo 4 times slower.
Quote by Absent Mind
The guitar is all like 'look at me I am t3h bro0talz'

but the guy looks as though hes saying 'meh not quite bro0tal enough'

which is worrying
Last edited by nichos at Apr 3, 2008,
#30
Quote by nichos
1/1 would not be


note duration: 4th 4th 4th 4th / 4th 4th 4th 4th
beats: 1 1


it would be this


note duration: 4th 4th 4th 4th / 4th 4th 4th 4th
beats: 1 1


And you can subdivide it in your mind as 1 2 3 4 / 1 2 3 4, or 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 & / 1 & 2 & 3 & 4 &, or as sixteenths or whatever you like.

Let's put it this way... playing a measure of 8ths in 1/1 time is exactly the same as, and is no harder than, playing one quarter note's worth of 32nds in 4/4 time at a tempo 4 times slower.


yeah but I was just putting it in the middle to show the midpoint...I wasnt focusing on the start of it. but my idea is correct. if I subdevide it then why not just make it 4/4 I like to hear it as it is not to imagine it..
Quote by RetroGunslinger
this is like comparing a flushing toilet to a hole in the ground
#31
Quote by fifer
yeah but I was just putting it in the middle to show the midpoint...I wasnt focusing on the start of it.


but that's precisely where the focus needs to be... at the start of it, just like any other note.

Quote by fifer
but my idea is correct. if I subdevide it then why not just make it 4/4 I like to hear it as it is not to imagine it..


Well, by that logic why not just play in 16/16 time signature so that we don't have to "imagine" the 16th notes?
Quote by Absent Mind
The guitar is all like 'look at me I am t3h bro0talz'

but the guy looks as though hes saying 'meh not quite bro0tal enough'

which is worrying
Last edited by nichos at Apr 3, 2008,
#32
yeah, but its easier to do it in 4/4 because then you dont have a lot of beats, its the best and easiest to play with. thats why most music is in that time signature.
Quote by RetroGunslinger
this is like comparing a flushing toilet to a hole in the ground
#33
Quote by fifer
yeah, but its easier to do it in 4/4 because then you dont have a lot of beats, its the best and easiest to play with. thats why most music is in that time signature.


It's not always the best for waltzes, minuets, scherzi, a lot of classical actually, reprises in french baroque opera, jigs, gigues, blues, doo-wop, slides... and it's only easier because that's what we're used to. Music from many asian cultures is very rarely in 4/4.

The point is, there's no reason to constrain yourself to one time signature... at some point you have to subdivide and/or start grouping (i.e. 5/4 = 3/4 + 2/4) anyways.
Quote by Absent Mind
The guitar is all like 'look at me I am t3h bro0talz'

but the guy looks as though hes saying 'meh not quite bro0tal enough'

which is worrying
Last edited by nichos at Apr 3, 2008,
#34
the only ones I use are 4/4 3/4 and 6/8. I think that the rest arent as good for me...
Quote by RetroGunslinger
this is like comparing a flushing toilet to a hole in the ground
#35
Quote by Tzeel
Holy ****, if this wasnt this long, i would sig this explanation, propably the most confusing piece of advice i have ever seen. I know all the stuff you said there and still i had extreme difficulties to read and understand that post.


Ahh, but praps i intended it to be a metaphor for the complexity and confusingness of a 1/1 bar

No, you're right, i got confused writing it. The problem is i guess, that on papaer 1/1 makes enough sense for it to seem a valid alternative to other more practical time sigs.
Quote by the humanity
You will be the High Lowlord's High Lowlife!



Ibanez EDB 550
Laney RB6