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#1
so i just accepted into this new band with a bunch of older fellas and this one guy has been playing for 30 some years and i watch him play and he plays all up and down the neck. i ask him what scales he uses and he says "a bunch of different ones, but mainly from the heart"

so i mainly play pentatonic and minor scales and i want to know how to put more soul into my playing, really learn how to improvise better really.

for music like the moody blues and bertie higgins.
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#3
scott henderson melodic phrasing youtube
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#4
You don't. Soul is not an inherent property of music.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#5
^ i prefer approximately one and a half cups of soul with each solo. any more and its too much any less and its too technical.
#6
I just laughed so hard at z4twenny's post i spit my soda onto my computer screen

advise: learn the major scale, and like everyone will tell you.. learn the actual notes not box patterns in one position of the fretboard
#7
Quote by whitetiger4000
so i just accepted into this new band with a bunch of older fellas and this one guy has been playing for 30 some years and i watch him play and he plays all up and down the neck. i ask him what scales he uses and he says "a bunch of different ones, but mainly from the heart"

so i mainly play pentatonic and minor scales and i want to know how to put more soul into my playing, really learn how to improvise better really.

for music like the moody blues and bertie higgins.


Well yeah. But you need to have a ground. So you learn what notes sound like together. Then you put the soul in it.
#9
When you learn the scales and fretboard well enough, you don't have to be thinking inside of a scale or tonality or anything like that. It flows from the inside because all that mental junk has been internalized. The holy-grail of great pro-musicians. Then you can just play by feel. From the heart...soulful.

I like Parsifal seek this musical "soul"
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#10
Funny you metioned this whitetiger4000, because I didn't play with soul while learning some of the ac/dc songs but the new scale that my teacher has gave me to get my pinky finger stronger my soul is coming out in this new scale. And it feels weird and plus it's getting musical every time I play it.
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#11
Exactly - having good theory knowledge means that you don't have to think about a lot of it because it's all internalised, you can work pretty much solely in terms of sound. You're better equipped to "play by feel" because you've got all that knowledge to back you up.
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#12
Quote by Archeo Avis
You don't. Soul is not an inherent property of music.



wow thats very helpful.

Quote by Peaceful Rocker

advise: learn the major scale, and like everyone will tell you.. learn the actual notes not box patterns in one position of the fretboard


what does that have to do with playing with "soul"?

Quote by whitetiger4000
so i just accepted into this new band with a bunch of older fellas and this one guy has been playing for 30 some years and i watch him play and he plays all up and down the neck. i ask him what scales he uses and he says "a bunch of different ones, but mainly from the heart"

so i mainly play pentatonic and minor scales and i want to know how to put more soul into my playing, really learn how to improvise better really.

for music like the moody blues and bertie higgins.


learn some solos that you like. Mimic the feel as closely as you can. try to capture every little nuance. Learn what it "feels" like to play something that you consider to have "soul".
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 2, 2008,
#13
wow thats very helpful.


It's the truth. Is lying to him somehow more helpful?

To the TS: The single best thing you can do to improve your improvisation is to develop your ear. Think of a backing track and then hum out a melody to yourself (it will be far easier for you to improvise a melody with your voice than with your guitar). Then grab your guitar and play that same melody. Practice this until you can think of a melody and play it perfectly on the spot. Play and learn the sounds of different intervals so that you can both recognize them when you hear them, and use them when creating music. While you're doing this, learn how those intervals relate to each other in the form of chords and scales. Learn how to construct those chords and scales in every key, anywhere on the fretboard.

what does that have to do with playing with "soul"?


Nothing, because there's no such thing as "playing with soul".
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Apr 2, 2008,
#14
Quote by Archeo Avis
It's the truth. Is lying to him somehow more helpful?



in your case not saying anything would be more helpful.
shred is gaudy music
#15
well, If you can say, think of a lick, then play it, that's going to vastly improve your music. So many folk are like "I can play lead" and just hit random notes in the scale, but if you're singing it in your head, then playing it, it's the next note that you think of that you play, as oppose to the next note say, in the scale.
Although i do find scales very useful.
and i'm a bassist, so i'm not exactly knowledgeable in guitar soloing.
#16
Quote by Archeo Avis
there's no such thing as "playing with soul".


define "playing with soul"
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 2, 2008,
#17
Quote by GuitarMunky
define "playing with soul"


Imparting some sort of emotion into the music.
Music is structured sound, it contains neither emotion nor "soul". Neither of them are properties of music, only something that the listener associates with it (completely subjectively). The only thing that matters is the composition of the piece, and the articulation of the notes. "Feeling" might change the way you articulate the notes, but not necessarily is any way that will make the music more pleasing, nor with it somehow make the music "emotional".
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#18
-This discussion feels awfully familiar.
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#19
Quote by Archeo Avis
Imparting some sort of emotion into the music.
Music is structured sound, it contains neither emotion nor "soul". Neither of them are properties of music, only something that the listener associates with it (completely subjectively). The only thing that matters is the composition of the piece, and the articulation of the notes. "Feeling" might change the way you articulate the notes, but not necessarily is any way that will make the music more pleasing, nor with it somehow make the music "emotional".



I totally disagree.

we are humans, we feel emotion..... and we make music. To say the 2 are completely unrelated is pure foolishness.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 2, 2008,
#20
Quote by GuitarMunky
The idea that you cant impart emotion into your music is just not true.


You can derive emotion from your music, and you can attempt to create an emotional response in your listeners, but music itself is nothing more than structured sound. It has no inherent emotion. The best way to "move" your listeners is to learn how different musical concepts relate to each other and why they sound the way they do, and then tailor your music to your audience. Different cultures (and different individuals) have completely different ideas of what constitutes "emotion" as far as music goes, and those qualities are generally predictable.

Music is not magical or metaphysical in any way, it's just vibration.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#21
Quote by Archeo Avis
You can derive emotion from your music, and you can attempt to create an emotional response in your listeners, but music itself is nothing more than structured sound. It has no inherent emotion. The best way to "move" your listeners is to learn how different musical concepts relate to each other and why they sound the way they do, and then tailor your music to your audience. Different cultures (and different individuals) have completely different ideas of what constitutes "emotion" as far as music goes, and those qualities are generally predictable.



again I totally disagree.

Humans create the structure. humans have emotions. Those emotions can drive the creation of the structure.

Emotion is often a highly intregal part of music. it often drives the creation of it, and can be involved in the playing of it, as well as the listening of it.
shred is gaudy music
#22
Quote by GuitarMunky
again I totally disagree.

Humans create the structure. humans have emotions. Those emotions can drive the creation of the structure.


Sure they can, but the structure itself has no emotion, and the emotional state of the musician isn't necessarily going to make the music emotional.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#23
Quote by Archeo Avis
Sure they can, but the structure itself has no emotion, and the emotional state of the musician isn't necessarily going to make the music emotional.


well ofcourse the structure itself has no emotion. the letters im typing have no emotion... BUT IF I YELL AT YOU BECAUSE IM PISSED OFF IVE JUST PUT EMOTION INTO WHAT IM SAYING. Its not different with music.

its entirely possible for an artists emotional state to effect the art work itself.
shred is gaudy music
#24
"Soul" is not integral to music, it is the byproduct of music itself, as in, when you listen to it you think "This has some soul to it". You wouldnt look at the music again on the page in notation and say the same thing.

I have said this before, in the "Feel vs Speed" thread, that "soul" can only exist if you like the song. To someone else it would sound slow and boring for instance.

TS: the guy is bull****ting you, as is the verb. If he has been playing for 30 years Im sure he has come across many people like you wondering how good he is, and has said the same thing.

30 years is a long time as well; there's one thing learing your theory, another learning to be a musician.
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#25
Music is a tool that by itself I suppose has no soul. The “soul” or feeling in any given song is added due to the listener, its completely subject to the listener’s opinion. Its like poetry; a poet might watch a sunset and decide to write a poem about it simply because its pretty. Somebody else might read it and think its an epic about the rise and fall of civilization. Its all a matter of personal opinion. …I for one might say that NOTHING has “soul” because maybe I don’t believe in a soul. lol
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#27
Quote by Aramis
People in this thread have never heard of Duende.


Hold the phone guys...the Spanish describe music as having soul. If a Country has a word that suggests that vibrations have some sort of inherent emotion, who am I to argue?
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#28
Archeo Avis, i'm not trying to be offensive but you are just throwing pseudointellectual bull****. Of course you are techincally correct, but you could as well say the you don't get hungry, you're body is just sending signals that more nutritions could be used.

Or you don't die, the biologial particles just stop moving in your body.

Or, or and or, i could make a novel full of this stuff.
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#29
Quote by Tzeel
Archeo Avis, i'm not trying to be offensive but you are just throwing pseudointellectual bull****


Bold accusation. Back it up.

Music is structured sound. Nothing more. It has no inherent emotion. If you disagree with this, explain why.

but you could as well say the you don't get hungry, you're body is just sending signals that more nutritions could be used.


That's what hunger is. Your analogy is ridiculous.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#30
This topic is based on opinion and arguing won't change anything, so this thread is therefore stupid.
#31
If i'm correct, the arguement started from you saying that one "can't play with soul" or with "emotion". And your reason was that music has no emotion or soul and it is just sound in certain structure. Well, as i said, you are correct, but in this case, i think that playing in soul means incapacicating structure into your playing which allows you to speak out your feelings with the instrument.

Quote by Archeo Avis
Bold accusation. Back it up.

Music is structured sound. Nothing more. It has no inherent emotion. If you disagree with this, explain why.


That's what hunger is. Your analogy is ridiculous.


Correct. I just described how i define playing with soul which you deem impossible.
My gear:

Schecter C-1 Classic
Squier Fat Strat Deluxe
Yamaha FG700 Acoustic
Old Nylonstrung Acoustic

Peavey Classic 50w 2/12
Roland Cube 30X
Roland Cube 60 (30~ years old)
Vox 847A Wah Pedal
Digitech Bad Monkey
Old Ibanez Rack Delay
Last edited by Tzeel at Apr 2, 2008,
#33
I just described how i define playing with soul which you deem impossible.


Generally, when you attempt to refute someone, you use the same definitions. I don't care how you define "playing with soul". I clearly stated how I defined it.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#34
So...what are the algorithms for "human playback" software on midi devices? Because whatever it is, it can make midi music evoke more emotion.

Just trying to converge the logic vs. abstract argument you guys are having.
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#35
Quote by Archeo Avis
Generally, when you attempt to refute someone, you use the same definitions. I don't care how you define "playing with soul". I clearly stated how I defined it.


No, you did not define "playing with soul", The only thing you said is, that you define music as structured sound which doesn't have any soul or emotion on it. Then i said that structuring the sound in certain way is playing with soul.

I await your argument, and god hopes it ain't about the definition of soul.
My gear:

Schecter C-1 Classic
Squier Fat Strat Deluxe
Yamaha FG700 Acoustic
Old Nylonstrung Acoustic

Peavey Classic 50w 2/12
Roland Cube 30X
Roland Cube 60 (30~ years old)
Vox 847A Wah Pedal
Digitech Bad Monkey
Old Ibanez Rack Delay
#36
Quote by Tzeel
Of course you are techincally correct, but you could as well say the you don't get hungry, you're body is just sending signals that more nutritions could be used.


-I know this was directed towards Archeo but that analogy is some what skew.

Hunger would be the feeling you have after the signal has reached your brain and in terms with this argument, it would mean that you've already heard music and interpreted it as full of emotion.
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#37
Quote by KryptNet
So...what are the algorithms for "human playback" software on midi devices? Because whatever it is, it can make midi music evoke more emotion.

Just trying to converge the logic vs. abstract argument you guys are having.


a very good point.


So anyway, the TS wanted to know how to "put more soul" into his playing. I know that this expression "playing with soul" generally means "playing with feeling". While there really are no theoretically formulas to deal with this (which explains why some people dont get the concept).... you can get an idea of how to play with feeling by mimicking others that play with feeling.....( or that you perceive as playing with feeling for those that want to get philosophical. )

so my advice is the same:

learn some solos that you like. Mimic the feel as closely as you can. try to capture every little nuance. Learn what it "feels" like to play something that you consider to have "soul".

maybe some others will have some different helpful tips you can try.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 2, 2008,
#38
ffs this is retarded, one artists doesnt play with more "soul" or "emotion" than another artist.

If you listen to a random shred solo, compared to a slow balad style solo with thick crunchy tone.. is the second one more emotional? or "soulful".. No

David Gilmour didn't play with any more soul than Kurt Cobaine, some people will feel as if kurt cobaines music reaches them more, as others will say gilmours does.

Whoever asked me earlier, as what does learning the fretboard have to do with playing with "soul"...

EVERYTHING, the topic starter is obviously confused.. and is feeling limited by his guitar playing...
Last edited by Peaceful Rocker at Apr 2, 2008,
#39
Any "soul" or "feeling" you think a piece of music has is just in your head and is totally subjective.
#40
Quote by Peaceful Rocker
ffs this is retarded, one artists doesnt play with more "soul" or "emotion" than another artist.

If you listen to a random shred solo, compared to a slow balad style solo with thick crunchy tone.. is the second one more emotional? or "soulful".. No

David Gilmour didn't play with any more soul than Kurt Cobaine, some people will feel as if kurt cobaines music reaches them more, as others will say gilmours does



sure opinion is involved. but that in no way means that 1 person doesnt play with more emotion than another. a single person could even play more emotionally at some times than others.
shred is gaudy music
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