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#1
So I searched for school shootings and couldn't really find a relevant thread to exactly what I want to discuss. I was inspired yesterday by a discussion I saw in the Pit (I know, not exactly the best place for inspiration, right?) about the columbine shootings and taking sides with the shooters. And I have a couple of questions for the pit:

1. The basic question, what do you think causes the shootings or school violence?

2. Why do you think, even though schools have been around for years that shootings JUST started to take place more and more? I was researching it and it looks like they didn't even start shooting until the late 60s. As I read more into it, it looks like there weren't any students shooting their peers until the 90s. The first ones were just Student protests gone bad, or weirdoes going to an elementary school to unload. So why, now are they taking place, and why do you think you never heard about a kid in the 1800s bringing a musket to school?
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Last edited by rhoads4ever at Apr 2, 2008,
#2
1. Bullying/Revenge

2. Because they had discipline back then and feared their peers. PLus with guns easier to obtain and a more violent culture it's almost natural to have an increase in this sort of thing.

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Berserker.
#3
Realisation that life doesn't really have a primary goal.
Basically, your friends (if you have any) are there because of a survival mechanism; Everyone wants to know someone, it's a way of espcaping from themselves.
#4
We didn't take their damn sides, we just said they weren't the only ones who were guilty.

I blame the internet.
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#5
Well im not concerned with school shootings here in wales, they dont happen. Its just some crazy SOB's sick with the bull**** they put up with in school. Honestly im surprised the shooters dont kill more, how hard can it be to kill 50 or more people when theres so many people there. They must be really bad shots . . . .
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#6
Listen to the song 'Ballad of the Kingsmen' by Todd Snider. Problem solved.
There's only one thing we can do to thwart the plot of these albino shape-shifting lizard BITCHES!
#7
Quote by bob farrell
Well im not concerned with school shootings here in wales, they dont happen. Its just some crazy SOB's sick with the bull**** they put up with in school. Honestly im surprised the shooters dont kill more, how hard can it be to kill 50 or more people when theres so many people there. They must be really bad shots . . . .

They're mostly nerds, though. They probably watch a lot of Star Wars and get their shooting technique from Storm Troopers.
Quote by vintage x metal
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Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#8
they should kill themselves then if they cant handle life in the real world
#9
Quote by Jack Off Jill
We didn't take their damn sides, we just said they weren't the only ones who were guilty.

I blame the internet.


I know, I think I worded it wrong. I meant that, looking at it through their side rather than saying they were absolute complete psychos with no soul who must have a disorder or something.
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#10
Quote by apod44
they should kill themselves then if they cant handle life in the real world

They usually do. Most of the time when there's a mass murder of that nature, one of the reasons it is done is because they want the police to take them out in a hail of bullets.
Quote by vintage x metal
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Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#11
Quote by Jack Off Jill
They're mostly nerds, though. They probably watch a lot of Star Wars and get their shooting technique from Storm Troopers.

Aha that explains the poor statistics. Whats the most killed in one episode? Like 20 or something? I think there not even really trying to kill people. If i did a school shooting, id kill at least 40. . . . . . . better hope i never go to america. . .. .
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#12
Quote by Jack Off Jill
They're mostly nerds, though. They probably watch a lot of Star Wars and get their shooting technique from Storm Troopers.

and they're not exactly known for their accuracy...

*stating the obvious like i always do *

we don't have shootings here in holland... we just get phsycos every now and again that just kill an 8 year old, dutch governement waves its fist, puts the bastard in jail and problem solved...
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On topic: No, I haven't met any famous artists.


ofcourse i laughed xD

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About the LHC

#13
Quote by Jack Off Jill
They're mostly nerds, though. They probably watch a lot of Star Wars and get their shooting technique from Storm Troopers.

Storm Troopers can't hit for shit. This guy, on the other hand:


If geeks watched more WWII epics then things would be different.

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youmakemesmile...

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MUFC


My love for you
Is like a truck
Berserker.
#14
Quote by Jack Off Jill
They usually do. Most of the time when there's a mass murder of that nature, one of the reasons it is done is because they want the police to take them out in a hail of bullets.


yeah. but i meant, you know, without killing a bunch of innocent people with them.
#15
Quote by bob farrell
Aha that explains the poor statistics. Whats the most killed in one episode? Like 20 or something? I think there not even really trying to kill people. If i did a school shooting, id kill at least 40. . . . . . . better hope i never go to america. . .. .

Well, they usually don't kill everyone. There usually damage done to people, they just don't shoot right. And in the case of Columbine, there was at least one person who may not have been killed by Dylan and Eric and instead were killed during friendly fire by the SWAT team. But the FBI have always mentioned a way of suicide when mass murders like this are done.

If you're not willing to kill yourself, but you want to.. But you also want to kill others on the way out, the easiest way to hit two birds with one stone is to kill people, and wait for the police to gun you down.
Quote by vintage x metal
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Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#16
In b4 MANSON MADE THEM DO IT.
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+1

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#17
Quote by Jack Off Jill
Well, they usually don't kill everyone. There usually damage done to people, they just don't shoot right. And in the case of Columbine, there was at least one person who may not have been killed by Dylan and Eric and instead were killed during friendly fire by the SWAT team. But the FBI have always mentioned a way of suicide when mass murders like this are done.

If you're not willing to kill yourself, but you want to.. But you also want to kill others on the way out, the easiest way to hit two birds with one stone is to kill people, and wait for the police to gun you down.

They are very silly people. If youre guna go on a killing rampage, and then you wanna get killed, why not waste pigs? Just walk into a police station and then waste every one you can, then theyll defo kill you. You cud probably even waste a few kids at school THEN go to a station and waste them . . . . . . . they must really be pathetic
. . . . ..
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#18
Quote by Zero-Hartman
Storm Troopers can't hit for shit. This guy, on the other hand:


If geeks watched more WWII epics then things would be different.

enemy at the gates.... an ok WWII movie.... not epic... his shot on that goldenteathed guy is epic tho
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ofcourse i laughed xD

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About the LHC

#19
Quote by bob farrell
They are very silly people. If youre guna go on a killing rampage, and then you wanna get killed, why not waste pigs? Just walk into a police station and then waste every one you can, then theyll defo kill you. You cud probably even waste a few kids at school THEN go to a station and waste them . . . . . . . they must really be pathetic
. . . . ..

I'm sure they would have, given the opportunity.. But certain things went wrong in that scenario. However, you people are looking at it from a different perspective. You don't seem to realize that people that are doing the shootings aren't exactly normal people, they have flawed logic and have something wrong with them. Otherwise, they probably wouldn't be able to do it in the first place. That doesn't mean I think the reason they do it is because they're psychotic or anything, I just think their emotional and mental barriers are probably easier to crumble because of it. Besides, if you're planning on killing yourself, and you blame others for it, why wouldn't you want revenge before hand?

Actually, a better question is.. If you believe you have no self-worth, and life is that meaningless, why would you feel bad for taking someone else's life?
Quote by vintage x metal
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Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#20
2. Why do you think, even though schools have been around for years that shootings JUST started to take place more and more? QUOTE]

ive heard people say its everything from "its the music they listen to" its their parents fault"

honestly, yes i side completely with the shooters

weve all gotten hazing at one time or another , but the kids at this school got a heavy dose of "you dont know who your ****ing with"

we live in a society where you HAVE to get hazed more than your fare share , because the "cool" kids need their militant pill so they can stay on top
Over my dead body , you nazi pirate bastard

#21
Quote by rhoads4ever
2. Why do you think, even though schools have been around for years that shootings JUST started to take place more and more? QUOTE]

ive heard people say its everything from "its the music they listen to" its their parents fault"

honestly, yes i side completely with the shooters

weve all gotten hazing at one time or another , but the kids at this school got a heavy dose of "you dont know who your ****ing with"

we live in a society where you HAVE to get hazed more than your fare share , because the "cool" kids need their militant pill so they can stay on top

To say that music doesn't influence is stupid. There are plenty of kids who do use drugs because their favorite musicians do, there are people who devote their lives to music because they got that influence. If there's no moral barrier, and no real sense of reality, who is to say a violent song, or a song about suicide wouldn't influence someone? And the parents ARE partially at fault, too.
Quote by vintage x metal
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Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#22
'You know, every ten years or so our country and some other little country,
We start firing all of our newest weapons
At each other for some reason or another, right or wrong,
Like it or not, it happens, and when it happens
People get shot and when people get shot,
They show it on tv a lot every night at six o clock
And you don't even have to be eighteen to see it you don't even have to be in first grade,
First grade where they teach the kid pride
They tell him he'll need to thrive,
In a world where only the strong will survive,
So he's taught the art of more
To compare to and to keep score Monday thru Friday while
He stares at the floor til' Sunday they make him go to
School once more only this time they make him wear a suit and a tie
And listen to some guy who claims to know Where people go
When they die tell him that only the meek are gonna inherit the earth Well ****,
By this time the kid doesn't know what anything is worth'
There's only one thing we can do to thwart the plot of these albino shape-shifting lizard BITCHES!
#23
Quote by Jack Off Jill

Actually, a better question is.. If you believe you have no self-worth, and life is that meaningless, why would you feel bad for taking someone else's life?


Good point, but I think there’s a huge difference between being destructive and being self destructive. Plenty of people just kill themselves when they feel worthless. Not everyone who feels suicidal is also homicidal. They want to die not kill; and often they feel no one wants them.

Edit: I also read the part about music and influence. I think to blame music itself is dumb, just like blaming anything is dumb because it's the way people react to it. Millions of people listen to violent music, only a handfull go out and kill.
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Last edited by rhoads4ever at Apr 2, 2008,
#24
Quote by lexaah
enemy at the gates.... an ok WWII movie.... not epic... his shot on that goldenteathed guy is epic tho

Not epic in the true sense of the word, but epic enough for me watched it last night that's why. That was one impossible shot though, fantastic...

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MUFC


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#25
Quote by Jack Off Jill
I'm sure they would have, given the opportunity.. But certain things went wrong in that scenario. However, you people are looking at it from a different perspective. You don't seem to realize that people that are doing the shootings aren't exactly normal people, they have flawed logic and have something wrong with them. Otherwise, they probably wouldn't be able to do it in the first place. That doesn't mean I think the reason they do it is because they're psychotic or anything, I just think their emotional and mental barriers are probably easier to crumble because of it. Besides, if you're planning on killing yourself, and you blame others for it, why wouldn't you want revenge before hand?

Actually, a better question is.. If you believe you have no self-worth, and life is that meaningless, why would you feel bad for taking someone else's life?

This is true, they did not put their sense hats on in the morning, i guess these shootings are just gunna keep happening whenever some crazy just reaches breaking point, not caring what happens since their life no longer matters to them.

Do you think columbine started evrything? For example would the Virgin Tech massacre still have happened if columbine never did? Or is it a big influence when people carry out these shootings?
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#26
Quote by Zero-Hartman
Not epic in the true sense of the word, but epic enough for me watched it last night that's why. That was one impossible shot though, fantastic...

best shot in the movie if you ask me it's a good movie, because it shows both sides effort to be the better, in a not completely exagurated style.
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On topic: No, I haven't met any famous artists.


ofcourse i laughed xD

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yeah we're all dead now. Turns out we've been in hell all along.

About the LHC

#27
Quote by rhoads4ever
Good point, but I think there’s a huge difference between being destructive and being self destructive. Plenty of people just kill themselves when they feel worthless. Not everyone who feels suicidal is also homicidal. They want to die not kill; and often they feel no one wants them.

Right. But a lo of people also kill themselves and leave no note. Usually when they leave no note, they want to guilt trip. At least, that's what most therapists think. School Shootings just take it a step further, either way, they're being destructive to others. It is easy to understand why someone would want to punish someone for a wrong doing before they leave the world.
Quote by bob farrell
This is true, they did not put their sense hats on in the morning, i guess these shootings are just gunna keep happening whenever some crazy just reaches breaking point, not caring what happens since their life no longer matters to them.

Do you think columbine started evrything? For example would the Virgin Tech massacre still have happened if columbine never did? Or is it a big influence when people carry out these shootings?

Columbine didn't start anything, though it did start a few copy cats. But in the last two years, there have been more school shootings than ever before. There were at least three in February of this year. I don't think school shootings are going to stop happening until there is less of a barrier between people, which schools perpetuate with pep rallies and things like that, giving tons and tons of glory to people because they can throw a football.
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Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
Last edited by Jack Off Jill at Apr 2, 2008,
#28
Quote by bob farrell
This is true, they did not put their sense hats on in the morning, i guess these shootings are just gunna keep happening whenever some crazy just reaches breaking point, not caring what happens since their life no longer matters to them.

Do you think columbine started evrything? For example would the Virgin Tech massacre still have happened if columbine never did? Or is it a big influence when people carry out these shootings?


Yeah I do because Virginia Tech was someone going crazy for outside reasons, not someone lashing out like in Columbine.
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#29
Quote by apod44
yeah. but i meant, you know, without killing a bunch of innocent people with them.
i can slightly see their point of view on this. its like doing something worth remembering. like if you kill some one thats like doing something important, and having a lasting effect on someone. in a twisted way it makes your life worthwhile because it give people something to remember you by. and its a lot easier to do that by doing something very very bad than by doing something very very good.

btw, im not a serial killer.
.
..
...
I have no opinion on this matter.
#30
Quote by rhoads4ever
Yeah I do because Virginia Tech was someone going crazy for outside reasons, not someone lashing out like in Columbine.

Not really, Cho had mental problems just like Dylan and Eric did. They weren't properly taken care of, though. He also mentioned them a few times in letters and videos. And at some point said this:

'Do you know what it feels to be spit on your face and to have trash shoved down your throat? Do you know what it feels like to dig your own grave? Do you know what it feels like to have your throat slashed from ear to ear? Do you know what it feels like to be torched alive? Do you know what it feels like to be humiliated and be impaled upon on a cross? And left to bleed to death for your amusement? You have never felt a single ounce of pain your whole life. Did you want to inject as much misery in our lives as you can just because you can?...I didn't have to do this. I could have left. I could have fled. But no, I will no longer run. It's not for me. For my children, for my brothers and sisters that you [****ed], I did it for them… When the time came, I did it. I had to...You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today, but you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off."

He, like Dylan and Eric, felt he was campaigning for something, and helping others.
Quote by vintage x metal
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Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
Last edited by Jack Off Jill at Apr 2, 2008,
#31
Quote by Jack Off Jill
Not really, Cho had mental problems just like Dylan and Eric did. They weren't properly taken care of, though. He also mentioned them a few times in letters and videos. And at some point said this:

'Do you know what it feels to be spit on your face and to have trash shoved down your throat? Do you know what it feels like to dig your own grave? Do you know what it feels like to have your throat slashed from ear to ear? Do you know what it feels like to be torched alive? Do you know what it feels like to be humiliated and be impaled upon on a cross? And left to bleed to death for your amusement? You have never felt a single ounce of pain your whole life. Did you want to inject as much misery in our lives as you can just because you can?...I didn't have to do this. I could have left. I could have fled. But no, I will no longer run. It's not for me. For my children, for my brothers and sisters that you [****ed], I did it for them… When the time came, I did it. I had to...You had a hundred billion chances and ways to have avoided today, but you decided to spill my blood. You forced me into a corner and gave me only one option. The decision was yours. Now you have blood on your hands that will never wash off."

He, like Dylan and Eric, felt he was campaigning for something, and helping others.


Thats interesting, I didn't know that. I'd always heard the love triangle story. Why do you think that one got brushed under the rug so quickly? I mean people still debate and discuss columbine, which was half as deadly as Virgina Tech.
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#32
Quote by DigUpHerBones
Listen to the song 'Ballad of the Kingsmen' by Todd Snider. Problem solved.


That's probably my favorite of Todd's songs. I really never thought there might be other Todd Snider fans on UG.

We should start a group.
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools
#33
Quote by rhoads4ever
So I searched for school shootings and couldn't really find a relevant thread to exactly what I want to discuss. I was inspired yesterday by a discussion I saw in the Pit (I know, not exactly the best place for inspiration, right?) about the columbine shootings and taking sides with the shooters. And I have a couple of questions for the pit:

1. The basic question, what do you think causes the shootings or school violence?

2. Why do you think, even though schools have been around for years that shootings JUST started to take place more and more? I was researching it and it looks like they didn't even start shooting until the late 60s. As I read more into it, it looks like there weren't any students shooting their peers until the 90s. The first ones were just Student protests gone bad, or weirdoes going to an elementary school to unload. So why, now are they taking place, and why do you think you never heard about a kid in the 1800s bringing a musket to school?



1. Just bullying. If you are getting picked on all your life by the same people, and there isnt anything you can do, what would you do? Sure its a little extreme, but these kids are getting messed with all their lives. And yes some are just plain ****bags.

2. To be honest i think they just want to end their lives and take the people out who were causing problems. Try and think of it through their eyes, you are getting picked on so much you are concidering suicide. Why not take it the extra mile and kill the people that made you feel this way?Not only do you get sweet revenge, you could be helping other kids who got picked on by them.

But then i think about it from an outsiders point of view, and i think they are just being trendy. and they dont want to be upstaged.
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#34
Quote by rhoads4ever
Thats interesting, I didn't know that. I'd always heard the love triangle story. Why do you think that one got brushed under the rug so quickly? I mean people still debate and discuss columbine, which was half as deadly as Virgina Tech.

Probably because Columbine was the one that really opened people's eyes. Though, VT did prompt Bush into wanting to sign a few gun control laws. But, I think part of the reason is that when Columbine happened, we weren't in the middle of a war.
Quote by greasysnowball
1. Just bullying. If you are getting picked on all your life by the same people, and there isnt anything you can do, what would you do? Sure its a little extreme, but these kids are getting messed with all their lives. And yes some are just plain ****bags.

2. To be honest i think they just want to end their lives and take the people out who were causing problems. Try and think of it through their eyes, you are getting picked on so much you are concidering suicide. Why not take it the extra mile and kill the people that made you feel this way?Not only do you get sweet revenge, you could be helping other kids who got picked on by them.

But then i think about it from an outsiders point of view, and i think they are just being trendy. and they dont want to be upstaged.

Not all the school shootings were prompted by bullying, though. V-Tech wasn't really prompted by bullying, I think that mostly had to do with Cho feeling like an outsider, because he was. Apparently he didn't have many issues in high school, and was fairly popular. But, he did feel like one in college, and didn't like the people he was around partially because of the girls there, but also because he thought a lot of the people he was in school with were hypocrites and generally bad people.
Quote by vintage x metal
I love you =] I can't say I was very fond of you when we first started talking because you trolled the hell out of my threads, but after talking to you here I've grown very attached to you.

Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
Last edited by Jack Off Jill at Apr 2, 2008,
#35
Quote by Jack Off Jill
Probably because Columbine was the one that really opened people's eyes. Though, VT did prompt Bush into wanting to sign a few gun control laws. But, I think part of the reason is that when Columbine happened, we weren't in the middle of a war.


True. I think people also used the columbine incident to bring up gun control laws, music, internet violent games and all that jazz hitting the American Youth. The guy from VT was, well foreign, and as i read more about him, had a history of mental disorders.
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#36
Quote by rhoads4ever
True. I think people also used the columbine incident to bring up gun control laws, music, internet violent games and all that jazz hitting the American Youth. The guy from VT was, well foreign, and as i read more about him, had a history of mental disorders.

Plus, I think Columbine was used better to distract people from certain things. But as for the two, I think Columbine could have been prevented. Cho seems like he was just a walking time bomb. And by the time VT happened, school shootings had kinda become common, even though he killed way more people than anyone else had.. Probably because Asians have more skills at everything.
Quote by vintage x metal
I love you =] I can't say I was very fond of you when we first started talking because you trolled the hell out of my threads, but after talking to you here I've grown very attached to you.

Yeah, write to my fanclub about it, honey.
#37
Quote by Jack Off Jill
Plus, I think Columbine was used better to distract people from certain things. But as for the two, I think Columbine could have been prevented. Cho seems like he was just a walking time bomb. And by the time VT happened, school shootings had kinda become common, even though he killed way more people than anyone else had.. Probably because Asians have more skills at everything.


Yeah he's one of those people at work you give things to and are always nice too because every day you're closer to them stalking through the office with an AK. Its just like computers and electronics. Nerdy white kids think they control it until an Asian comes and blows their records out of the water.
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#38
i didnt follow up too much on the VA Tech shootings. so i truly dont know why he did what he did. but i kinda figured it was for bullying.

In a way wouldnt be an outsider be bullying (although he kinda did it to himself by not talking to anyone)? I mean its really more, psychological.... but it could be a form of bullying. because there is no one to talk to. it would cause a man to lose his mind, such as he did.
Quote by Burtonjp
Im secretly a lesbian female in a male body. The worlds a tough place for me.


Quote by gunther_sucks
I once ran into a mirror that I didn't know was there. I think you could say We were both suprised.
#39
Quote by rhoads4ever
Yeah he's one of those people at work you give things to and are always nice too because every day you're closer to them stalking through the office with an AK. Its just like computers and electronics. Nerdy white kids think they control it until an Asian comes and blows their records out of the water.



I think high schools can take things a little too far at times, though. I used to have a file in the office of just about every piece of art I made in painting/drawing class because they almost always involved mutants, monsters, or something being dead. I drew a picture of me killing the members of ICP once, and that was the first thing that got put in that folder. I was completely unaware that I even had a folder until my parents told me. Then the school insisted I start seeing the guidance counsellor, even though they knew I already had a therapist and was on medication. I think they just wanted to keep tabs on me so they could kick me out of school if I said anything remotely threatening. Everyone knew I don't believe in violence, though. And my brother was suspended from school right after Columbine happened because he had a turkey bone in his locker, was quiet, and had a list of video game characters.. He fit the description of someone that would be violent much more than I did, but Jesse wouldn't hurt a fly.
Quote by greasysnowball
i didnt follow up too much on the VA Tech shootings. so i truly dont know why he did what he did. but i kinda figured it was for bullying.

In a way wouldnt be an outsider be bullying (although he kinda did it to himself by not talking to anyone)? I mean its really more, psychological.... but it could be a form of bullying. because there is no one to talk to. it would cause a man to lose his mind, such as he did.

No, not really. I think Cho just realized that he was different from everyone else, and secluded himself when he got to Virginia Tech. Though, some teachers obviously didn't like him because of some of the things he was writing, doing, or saying. And he had a habit of harassing girls, or stalking them.. So, I can see what you're getting at.
Quote by vintage x metal
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#40
I think that isolated kids also start to feel like they have no where to turn. I mean JOJ about you and your brother, you guys did fit the description, but you had means to turn to, art, music, or whatever. I think a lot of these kids feel so isolated and so pushed down by the celebrated jocks, by society itself. I hated high school, the school system, the people etc. Anyone who says its better is lying. I'm broke, don't eat very much, all my stuff is jacked up but it'd take this life over being in high school again any day.
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