#1
I recently purchased a new Mesa Boogie Dual Recto half stack (with the three channel recto head). This is my first half-stack, and I'm a little bit less than skilled at getting the right tones out of it (you dont learn much about tweaking knobs when you play through a crappy 50 watt ibanez amp and as well as a friends equally crappy Crate half-stack for about three years.)

I'm wanting to get a nice, clear, and brutal death metal tone out of the amp, but every time I go to mess with the settings on the third channel...theres always alot left to be desired outta my tone.

I was hoping someone with similar musical interests might be running through a similar amp, and be able to give some suggestions on settings to use, or tell me if your going through some pre-amp or something of the sort to get the tone that you desire. Any suggestions are pretty helpful...


.::just for reference::.
the kind of music I'm playing is best likened to that of:
Nile, Vital Remains, Behemoth, Cannibal Corpse, Belphegor, Hate Eternal, Emperor, Akercocke, Morbid Angel, Opeth, Amon Amarth, Bloodbath, Arch Enemy, Vader, Nevermore, etc.
#2
You might wanna try using an overdrive to tighten up your sound
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#3
use a Maxon OD-808 as a tightness applicator and you'll sound really nice, its basically the same amp as the Peavey XXX in all reality which I like better than 6505+ JL Modded

but even then, you'd want to get some sort of active pickup or at least passive Seymour Duncan SH-6 or SH-8, SH-8 distorts clean though
#4
Yes, try using a heavy overdrive pedal and put your amp on less extreme setting to tighten up your sound as suggested.
Current Rig>>Jackson Phil Collin Signature Guitar/Ibanez Artcore>>>Modded Dunlop Crybaby>>>TS-9DXModded>>>Rat kit>>Octavia>>CE-20>>DD-7>>>Musicaman HD-120
#5
Quote by xWhitechapelx
use a Maxon OD-808 as a tightness applicator and you'll sound really nice, its basically the same amp as the Peavey XXX in all reality which I like better than 6505+ JL Modded

but even then, you'd want to get some sort of active pickup or at least passive Seymour Duncan SH-6 or SH-8, SH-8 distorts clean though


My main guitar at the current moment is a Schecter C-1 Classic tuned to standard C. It has Seymour Duncan's in it...i believe they are the JB (SH-4) & Jazz (SH-2n).

I'm looking into the new Schecter V-1 Hellraiser FR in the mildly near future, so I'll be running through some EMG's when I finally have the funds to buy that guitar...
#6
Quote by xWhitechapelx
use a Maxon OD-808 as a tightness applicator and you'll sound really nice, its basically the same amp as the Peavey XXX in all reality which I like better than 6505+ JL Modded

but even then, you'd want to get some sort of active pickup or at least passive Seymour Duncan SH-6 or SH-8, SH-8 distorts clean though

Not the SH-8, please.
RIP Jasmine You.

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Yo wassup, I'm trying to expand my musical horizons if you know what I mean, so can anybody reccomend me some cool Juggalo jazz?
#7
Quote by Quoteman
Yes, try using a heavy overdrive pedal and put your amp on less extreme setting to tighten up your sound as suggested.


That's what I'm doing at the moment. I've had the amp for a month or two and have been running a Boss MT-2 through the first (clean) channel of the amp. But running a pedal through the Mesa sounds really thin and very unsatisfying.
#8
Quote by kurtshapedbox
That's what I'm doing at the moment. I've had the amp for a month or two and have been running a Boss MT-2 through the first (clean) channel of the amp. But running a pedal through the Mesa sounds really thin and very unsatisfying.


Thats cos you're using an MT-2
Quote by jxljxl
If UG had a Facebook style Relationship thing, I'd e-marry you C-mak


Quote by jxljxl
I want C-mak in my bum.


^Think he might have a thing for me...
#9
How loud is it turned up? That could be an issue. Also, don't go adding a ton of gain when trying to EQ; set the volume where you want it, then try playing, and don't pick soft! If you want it natural, get a little aggressive with your picking. If it's not up to your specs, start adding a bit of gain, and keep doing it till your satisfied. Although, I've noticed with a lot of new Dual Rectos, using a Tubescreamer type pedal in front to tighten it is a must it seems, so if it still doesn't sound right, try using a tubescreamer to tighten it.
#10
Quote by cmakkidguitar
Thats cos you're using an MT-2


No argument there. But like I said, running through those crappy ibanez/Crate amp it didn't really matter what i was using at the time, cause it was gonna sound like crap anyways. I scored the MT-2 for about 40 bucks, and that was good enough for me at the time.

No job=equipment compromise. But I'm actually doing stuff with a serious band now, so I have alot of equipment upgrades in store for me (it's what finally modivated to get an actual decent half-stack in the first place).
#11
Mesa amps (Rectifiers in particular) aren't really voiced for death metal. Death metal tone tends to be very tight and bright, which is basically the opposite of a Rectifier. You'd honestly be better off with a solid state amp.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#12
Quote by RG_FANMAN
How loud is it turned up? That could be an issue. Also, don't go adding a ton of gain when trying to EQ; set the volume where you want it, then try playing, and don't pick soft! If you want it natural, get a little aggressive with your picking. If it's not up to your specs, start adding a bit of gain, and keep doing it till your satisfied. Although, I've noticed with a lot of new Dual Rectos, using a Tubescreamer type pedal in front to tighten it is a must it seems, so if it still doesn't sound right, try using a tubescreamer to tighten it.


I get to play at some pretty high levels, especially at my band's rehearsals, so I don't THINK that the issue is volume (though the amp usually doesn't get much past half-way on the volume). I really have negative feelings towards using a pedal for my overdrive, but do you honestly think that this going to be the best way to go?
#13
Quote by kurtshapedbox
My main guitar at the current moment is a Schecter C-1 Classic tuned to standard C. It has Seymour Duncan's in it...i believe they are the JB (SH-4) & Jazz (SH-2n).

I'm looking into the new Schecter V-1 Hellraiser FR in the mildly near future, so I'll be running through some EMG's when I finally have the funds to buy that guitar...


that should sound pretty good, the SH6 are just a tad higher performance,
I think D standard would sound better on your amp than Drop-C, which is the same tuning except your thickest guage string is a D rather than a C the rest is the same >;]

now you can use natural distortion >;].....but really a Maxon OD-808 would help you get more bite, the messa actually requires very little gain, it has more gain than you need when you have high performance pickups just be sure to use mids

I wouldn't get a power attenator if I were you, it doesn't sound as natural as if you naturally cranked the amp up least from me experiments
#14
What we mean by using a pedal to tighten up your sound is to put an OVERDRIVE pedal (not a distortion pedal like the MT-2) into the lead channel of the amp.

Anyway, I think the main problem here is the fact youre in standard C. Thats way too low for guitar, realistically, and pretty much no matter what its going to sound floppy, undefined, mushy...just overall really not that good.

Another thing is that guitar is a MIDRANGE INSTRUMENT. Scooping the mids is the worst thing you can do...EVER. Flame me if you want, Im still right. All this metal stuff involves scooping your mids and stuff and it just kills everything about your guitar tone. You can buy a $4000 amp but as soon as you take those mids out its going to sound the same as a $40 amp. Thats just the way it is.

Now I used to own a Triple Rectifier, and if you want a good starting point try checking the user manual for example settings.

Long story short, if you want a death metal sound then put the mids all the way down, and then turn the highs and lows all the way up along with the gain. That should do it. Its not going to sound good, but it wont sound any different than all the bands you listed...no offense.
#15
Quote by Archeo Avis
Mesa amps (Rectifiers in particular) aren't really voiced for death metal. Death metal tone tends to be very tight and bright, which is basically the opposite of a Rectifier. You'd honestly be better off with a solid state amp.

What kind of death metal do you listen to? Death metal tone is dark and tight. Recto's are perfect for this because they're dark, they're voiced for the lower midrange. Go and listen to Nile or Whitechapel and tell me they have bright tone.
#16
Quote by kurtshapedbox
I get to play at some pretty high levels, especially at my band's rehearsals, so I don't THINK that the issue is volume (though the amp usually doesn't get much past half-way on the volume). I really have negative feelings towards using a pedal for my overdrive, but do you honestly think that this going to be the best way to go?


Sadly, especially if you get it near the halfway point. If it's still sounding flubby, try removing some bass, adding some mids. If that doesn't work, go for the tubescreamer. And if that doesn't work, well

At that point, I'd try to look for another amp. I don't know what else to do.
#17
Quote by ihatepigum
What kind of death metal do you listen to? Death metal tone is dark and tight. Recto's are perfect for this because they're dark, they're voiced for the lower midrange. Go and listen to Nile or Whitechapel and tell me they have bright tone.

Actually, Rectos are voiced more for lows and highs...in a way. They werent really designed with the midrange in mind at all! lol The Peavey 5150/6505 is basically ALL lower midrange though, which is why its perfect for death metal.

A good example of where the Mesa Rectos shine is a band called Norma Jean. They use Rectos almost all the time, on tour and in the studio. Its very scooped, and quite honestly thin, lifeless, mushy, undefined...etc. But hey, thats what metal is after all (for the most part-some metal guys have great tone, but its rare to find that).
#18
Quote by kurdtkobaign

Anyway, I think the main problem here is the fact youre in standard C. Thats way too low for guitar, realistically, and pretty much no matter what its going to sound floppy, undefined, mushy...just overall really not that good...


lol, not quite

Quote by kurdtkobaign
...Long story short, if you want a death metal sound then put the mids all the way down, and then turn the highs and lows all the way up along with the gain. That should do it. Its not going to sound good, but it wont sound any different than all the bands you listed...no offense.


not even close.
#19
Yeah, Bright isn't exactly the word at all, but the Recto's ARE NOT tight. They are very "loose" sounding amps by themselves, which is why most people that use them put a Maxon OD808 in front of it to tighten the signal.
For the main question though, I'd say turn the gain down, find your EQ that you like most, mess around with precense a bit, then add the gain to your delight. If you aren't much for cleans (judging by the bands you listed) I'd say check out a Peavey 5150 if you give up on the Mesa, that'd be the best for you if cleans are out of the question.
EDIT: to post #15 on the Mesa's being tight comment
Last edited by bowen at Apr 6, 2008,
#20
So asides from making rediculous claims that death metal bands dont get good guitar tone (even though most of the bands that I listed completely destroy that claim especially when taking thier latest releases into consideration.) could this thread become useful again, and could someone elaborate a bit on the Tubescreamer and Maxon OD-808...
#21
Quote by bowen
Yeah, Bright isn't exactly the word at all, but the Recto's ARE NOT tight. They are very "loose" sounding amps by themselves, which is why most people that use them put a Maxon OD808 in front of it to tighten the signal.
For the main question though, I'd say turn the gain down, find your EQ that you like most, mess around with precense a bit, then add the gain to your delight. If you aren't much for cleans (judging by the bands you listed) I'd say check out a Peavey 5150 if you give up on the Mesa, that'd be the best for you if cleans are out of the question.
EDIT: to post #15 on the Mesa's being tight comment


If I ever end up getting a new head it wont be for a very long time. I don't have enough cash to throw around and get new heads every month. Though that would be really sweet....
#22
Quote by kurtshapedbox
So asides from making rediculous claims that death metal bands dont get good guitar tone (even though most of the bands that I listed completely destroy that claim especially when taking thier latest releases into consideration.) could this thread become useful again, and could someone elaborate a bit on the Tubescreamer and Maxon OD-808...


it is just used as a boost so that the amp will have more saturation type sound and have more punchiness, it is like an EQ effect that adds dirt for more chunky distortion, many artist use boosts from pedals to racks least from my experiences not a big difference but every little bit adds up


haha if you did that you wouldn't have anything new to get after 5 weeks then you'd have a halfstack with 100 different heads on it and you won't remember the backup order
#23
Did you try out the Mesa Recto before you bought it? I find it to be a pretty lifeless death metal amp, just like some others do. The lack of a tight low end is what really turned me off.

I'd recommend buying the Maxon OD-808 like others have to tighten up your sound, but the only Recto I've heard with a great metal tone had like 2 grand of rack gear hooked up to it.

If you don't think the OD will do what you want, sell it for close to what you bought it for a buy yourself a head closer to what you want.
#24
Quote by rwalby9
Did you try out the Mesa Recto before you bought it? I find it to be a pretty lifeless death metal amp, just like some others do. The lack of a tight low end is what really turned me off.

I'd recommend buying the Maxon OD-808 like others have to tighten up your sound, but the only Recto I've heard with a great metal tone had like 2 grand of rack gear hooked up to it.

If you don't think the OD will do what you want, sell it for close to what you bought it for a buy yourself a head closer to what you want.


Yeah, I tried it out first, and I actually liked it quite a large bit, and still do. This thread is more of a "okay, i have a new half-stack now what's the best way to get the kinda tone thats best for what i want outta it" more than "oh s*it! the half stack I just bought sucks! how can i salvage the tone I'm getting out of it?"

I'm actually happy with my purchase, and don't think i'm going to be unhappy anytime soon. I want to end up with a couple of heads in my arsenal before I'm completely happy with my rig. But i'm not so much worried about getting something else right now, i just want to be able to get the best tone out of what I've already got to work with.
#25
Quote by kurtshapedbox
lol, not quite
Quite. Its just the way things are. Guitars are really only meant to be in E. Not a lot of people realize this. Of course, there are tons of alternate tunings, and most work great with a standard guitar...BUT a lot of them dont stray too far away from E (in terms of string tension). This is why they make BARITONE guitars. If you want to tune low, then maybe get a guitar designed for it. On the other end of the spectrum some guitars have a shorter scale neck for higher tunings.

Really the only way to make sure you get a decent feel and sound out of a guitar tuned way down like yours is to get really thick strings, make all the proper adjustments, and get the right pickups. I would prefer something brighter like a Duncan JB for low tunings.


Quote by kurtshapedbox
not even close.
Im a little closer than youd like to think. A lot of these metal bands that people worship could as well be playing any amp...it would sound the same. Like I said before, there are some great exceptions...some metal bands that Ive heard have GREAT tone. But those guys also knew what they were doing (unlike yourself). Keeping the gain in check is a huge thing. Once you dime the gain knob it really doesnt matter how your EQ is set...its all going to sound the same. With Mesa Rectifiers, the EQ is active. In other words, the EQ is in a chain, and everything follows the what? Thats right...the GAIN KNOB. The higher you crank the gain, the less of an effect your EQ has on the overall tone. So, keep the gain somewhere around 3 o'clock. I found thats about as high as I could push it while still maintaining clarity and definition. After that, for a metal sound...and Ill repeat myself: Turn the mids down, and crank the highs and lows. Keep the Presence knob where ever, I always kept it all the way off.

What didnt you get out of my earlier posts? Death metal IS: way too much distortion, and no mids. Theres nothing hard about it...you might as well be using a crappy MT-2 pedal....it wouldnt make a difference in the studio or live.

Real tone is in the midrange. A la Marshall, Orange, shoot even the 5150 has a good lower midrange!
#26
I've tried the Recto quite a few times and don't find it loose at all. I have been wanting to buy one in order to combine it with my Studio pre amp. Try Presence 11 o'clock, bass 12.5, mid 11.5, and treble 2 o'clock. Turn up the output higher than the channel volume.
#27
Quote by kurdtkobaign
Quite. Its just the way things are. Guitars are really only meant to be in E. Not a lot of people realize this. Of course, there are tons of alternate tunings, and most work great with a standard guitar...BUT a lot of them dont stray too far away from E (in terms of string tension). This is why they make BARITONE guitars. If you want to tune low, then maybe get a guitar designed for it. On the other end of the spectrum some guitars have a shorter scale neck for higher tunings.

Really the only way to make sure you get a decent feel and sound out of a guitar tuned way down like yours is to get really thick strings, make all the proper adjustments, and get the right pickups. I would prefer something brighter like a Duncan JB for low tunings.


Im a little closer than youd like to think. A lot of these metal bands that people worship could as well be playing any amp...it would sound the same. Like I said before, there are some great exceptions...some metal bands that Ive heard have GREAT tone. But those guys also knew what they were doing (unlike yourself). Keeping the gain in check is a huge thing. Once you dime the gain knob it really doesnt matter how your EQ is set...its all going to sound the same. With Mesa Rectifiers, the EQ is active. In other words, the EQ is in a chain, and everything follows the what? Thats right...the GAIN KNOB. The higher you crank the gain, the less of an effect your EQ has on the overall tone. So, keep the gain somewhere around 3 o'clock. I found thats about as high as I could push it while still maintaining clarity and definition. After that, for a metal sound...and Ill repeat myself: Turn the mids down, and crank the highs and lows. Keep the Presence knob where ever, I always kept it all the way off.

What didnt you get out of my earlier posts? Death metal IS: way too much distortion, and no mids. Theres nothing hard about it...you might as well be using a crappy MT-2 pedal....it wouldnt make a difference in the studio or live.

Real tone is in the midrange. A la Marshall, Orange, shoot even the 5150 has a good lower midrange!


I really suggest you try an Uberschall, even with gain maxed it sounds tight with a massive low end.
And ofcourse if you tune to C with standard .09 strings it will sound flubby and crap, but with .12 strings it sounds as good as a guitar in E with .09 strings.
Most 7-strings have the same scale as 6-strings (25.5") and they are tuned to B, so you're saying all 7-strings sound like crap?
Jackson KV 2, Jackson COW 7 (both in B), Jackson Demmelition V
Bogner Überschall (blue rev)
Marshall 1960B Vintage (2x V30 & 2x G12T75)
TC Electronic G Major
BBE Sonic Maximizer 422A
Weber Mass 150w
ISP ProRackG
T.Racks Dinopower
#28
Quote by kurdtkobaign
Quite. Its just the way things are. Guitars are really only meant to be in E. Not a lot of people realize this. Of course, there are tons of alternate tunings, and most work great with a standard guitar...BUT a lot of them dont stray too far away from E (in terms of string tension). This is why they make BARITONE guitars. If you want to tune low, then maybe get a guitar designed for it. On the other end of the spectrum some guitars have a shorter scale neck for higher tunings.

Really the only way to make sure you get a decent feel and sound out of a guitar tuned way down like yours is to get really thick strings, make all the proper adjustments, and get the right pickups. I would prefer something brighter like a Duncan JB for low tunings.


Yes, the guitar is a midrange instrument. Thats common knowledge. The reason i don't use a Baritone instrument is because I've never found one that i didn't think was completely bland, boring, and just generally not worth the money. My guitar has been set up to play in C for along while know, and frequently gets checked to make sure the intonation is staying in tact. So yes, my guitar has thick strings (13-56's are my preference), has has the proper adjustments, and as I've stated above my main instrument has a Seymour Duncan JB (SH-4) & Jazz (SH-2n) in it.

My guitar that is set up in C sounds every bit as amazing as it did set up in E.


Quote by kurdtkobaign


What didnt you get out of my earlier posts? Death metal IS: way too much distortion, and no mids. Theres nothing hard about it...you might as well be using a crappy MT-2 pedal....it wouldnt make a difference in the studio or live.

Real tone is in the midrange. A la Marshall, Orange, shoot even the 5150 has a good lower midrange!


What I did get out of you earlier posts, was you complete disregard for the amazing tone of well over half the death metal CD releases within the last years time (the latest works of: Behemoth, Hate Eternal, Bloodbath, Arch Enemy, etc.) And I can honestly say that trying to reproduce a similar tone on any of those albums with an MT-2 in the studio is completely ****ing retarded. If your basing your opinion on death metal tone completely off the fact that you don't like death metal's sound in the first place then there is no reason for you to be in this thread in the first place.


As for your "But those guys also knew what they were doing (unlike yourself)" comment...

Telling a 17 yr. old kid who just now has been able to gather up the funds for his first half-stack, and has never had the opportunity to play on a decent half-stack for an extended period of time, that he doesn't know what he's doing with a half-stack isn't much of an insult. If anything it's common sense. There lots of things to make fun of me for, at least find a good one if your gonna do it.