#1
ok so ive been looking to get a new amp lately. but so far no luck. i have a Crate SS amp right now and i figured i should get into the tube amps now. everyone says the tone is better.

but are they really that much better? all i seem to be finding is amps that overdrive pretty early. sure the overdrive sounds smoother than on a SS, but is it worth it? i do like to play clean stuff a lot too. and id like to be able to stay clean and not have slight breakup when i pick harder.

so should i just get a good SS and a good OD pedal....or should i get a good tube amp? because ive played some SS amps and they sounded really good on the clean channel. the overdrive built in usually sucks. but with a pedal it is usually pretty decent.

so how much better are tube amps really? im not really hearing anything different other than a smoother overdrive. but im finding it hard to control how much im getting out of it. at home with the amp i have now i just use the pedal to control the overdrive and i can turn up the volume and the tone stays the same. that is unless i go full out and overload the amp.

also, who makes good SS amps? i know who makes good tube amps some what but not so much with SS.
#2
if you go with the tube, you wont regret it. after having both kinds for a while its a night/day difference. Plus you can always use a pedal if you want a SS distorted sound, which I like sometimes myself. I have a MT-2 going to a Fender DeVille 212, and I think a lot of people would laugh at that but it seems just what your looking for, amazing cleans and overdrive.
#3
people claim tubes have more organic tone and feel warmer (i am one of these)

but if your comparing extremely clean and and extreme distortion, there isnt many differences between tube and SS (analog SS not digital)
this was proven in an experiment where many musicians couldn't decipher very accurately between analog SS, and tubes. ..A small yamaha SS tricked a lot of them


so far the most obvious difference between Tubes and SS is the way the clean channel breaks up, which in tubes sounds way more "musical"

I hear a lot of good things about Randall SS, and Orange ss amps you should check those out, for cleans people rave about the roland jazz chorus

..make sure you avoid digital amps , ie. line 6
#4
Quote by STriNG-RaY

so far the most obvious difference between Tubes and SS is the way the clean channel breaks up, which in tubes sounds way more "musical"

..make sure you avoid digital amps , ie. line 6


Can you elaborate on that part please, what do you mean the way it breaks up??
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#5
line 6 flextone III and vetta, as well as roland jazz chorus JC-120

but tube amps are better its as simple as that. i have 2 knobs on my tube amp for OD, drive and volume. i want more dirt, i crank drive and maybe compensate by taking volume down a notch.

i love the clean sounds. theyre much more responsive when it breaks up just a little. it gives it a nice bit of definition
Get off this damn forum and play your damn guitar.
#6
I hear the Flextones are good SS amps that don't cost too much. Especially used. But if you want to know what amp you might want to buy, you should post your budget. location (country will do), styles you play, what gear you have and what volume-levels you want (eg. gigging or bedroom practice?).
Quote by Lunchbox362
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#7
when i say "the way it breaks up"
it mean, when you push your clean channel hard enough so it starts to be distorted, in others words overdrive

the volume has to be quite high in order for this to happen but when it does, no SS can compare to the tone,

a lot of people are recommendsing Line 6 as an amp it is DIGITAL, when i talk about SS specifically mean ANALOG SOLID STATE,
DIGITAL SOLID STATE will give you the worst tone compared to any other type of amp (ie tube and SS analog). I know because i used to own one for a couple of years before i sold it, it being a line 6 flextone III

One of the only advantages of Digital amps are their versatility but that is all, if you want good tone do not get digital amps like line 6
#8
Quote by STriNG-RaY

..make sure you avoid digital amps , ie. line 6


No.
Have you not heard of the vetta, it's probably one of the best SS amps there are.
#10
Quote by STriNG-RaY
a lot of people are recommendsing Line 6 as an amp it is DIGITAL, when i talk about SS specifically mean ANALOG SOLID STATE,
DIGITAL SOLID STATE will give you the worst tone compared to any other type of amp (ie tube and SS analog). I know because i used to own one for a couple of years before i sold it, it being a line 6 flextone III

One of the only advantages of Digital amps are their versatility but that is all, if you want good tone do not get digital amps like line 6


That's BS. I'll put my Vetta 2 up against pretty much any amp out there. I've played my Vetta 2 against a friends Dual Recto., Peavey Valve King, and a Peavey 6505. The Vetta can hold its own without a problem, sound great cranked, and cut through in live situations.
#11
i have owned Analog SS, Digital SS, and tube

and ill state it as a fact Digital amps have the worst tone in comparison to all
its not real tone its digital jesus christ
take for example the line 6 guitars...your not getting a signal from a guitar, pickups etc. its all digital

yes i can see the advantage of having 100s of amp models at your fingertips, but its all digital just like how digital keyboards can emulate violins organs etc. your line six is emulating marshalls, fenders, etc.

the vetta might be a good amp if your comparing to other digital amps, or really crappy analog SS or extremely crappy tube amps,

but compared to any good tube amps/Analog SS its total crap


and if digital is so great why'd line 6 decide to put tubes in their spider amps????
#12
Quote by turbulenced
No.
Have you not heard of the vetta, it's probably one of the best SS amps there are.



i highly doubt that...best, maybe versatility wise, but not tone wise..
#13
Quote by STriNG-RaY
i have owned Analog SS, Digital SS, and tube

and ill state it as a fact Digital amps have the worst tone in comparison to all
its not real tone its digital jesus christ
take for example the line 6 guitars...your not getting a signal from a guitar, pickups etc. its all digital

yes i can see the advantage of having 100s of amp models at your fingertips, but its all digital just like how digital keyboards can emulate violins organs etc. your line six is emulating marshalls, fenders, etc.

the vetta might be a good amp if your comparing to other digital amps, or really crappy analog SS or extremely crappy tube amps,

but compared to any good tube amps/Analog SS its total crap


and if digital is so great why'd line 6 decide to put tubes in their spider amps????


If you can tell me in a double blind test the difference between a vetta amp and the amp it's simulating in a mixed polished recording and/or a live performance i'll be very impressed.
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#14
Quote by STriNG-RaY
i highly doubt that...best, maybe versatility wise, but not tone wise..


I take it you haven't listened to the Vetta samples. LOL
#15
Quote by STriNG-RaY

the vetta might be a good amp if your comparing to other digital amps, or really crappy analog SS or extremely crappy tube amps,


Have you ever tried a Vetta?
I would put it up against tube amps of around its price, if it was about versitality with good quality sounds, then the vetta would win. But if you were looking for that warm tube tone, then obviously you would take the tube amp.


Quote by STriNG-RaY

and if digital is so great why'd line 6 decide to put tubes in their spider amps????


So people like you won't just count them off just because an amp hasn't got tubes in it.
#16
tube = 1000 times better. Why do you think pros use them? Because they're being stupid and not efficient and a watt is a watt?

You can't produce the Tube overdrive with a SS amp.
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#18
Quote by omghi2u
tube = 1000 times better. Why do you think pros use them? Because they're being stupid and not efficient and a watt is a watt?

You can't produce the Tube overdrive with a SS amp.

Read above...
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#19
I own a Traynor DG65R

Analog SS amp, Probably 2x better then the famous valveking and i paid it the same price.


Well traynor always kick ass.


High end SS > low end tube.
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#20
I'm not an expert on this debate, but I'd like to make a small contribution:

How you ever noticed how often SS amps are advertised as "simulating tube tone?" Here are some examples:

Traynor DG60R - "Traynor 65-watt DynaGain60R Series employs three-stage dynamic tube emulation circuitry and a proprietary continuously variable Contour' control to provide unparalleled tube-like tone from a solid-state amplifier."

Vox valvetronix - "Vox's patented Valve Reactor technology provides genuine tube tone with the stability of solid-state sound."

etc, etc.

So, the definite advantage of an SS amp is that it can simulate a lot of different tubes all in one amp. The valvetronix is a great example, as it has many different settings to simulate all kinds of different amps. The problem is that it's still only a simulation, and as many of the tone purists will argue, you lose a lot of the tone of those tube amps in the SS simulation. It's kind of like learning to be a pilot and flying simulations versus the real thing: simulations can provide a reliable experience of what flying is like, but there are going to be many subtleties of the real thing that make it a different experience. Likewise with SS amps, they provide a simulated tone of different tube amps that is pretty good, but a real tube amp sounds different. And for many people, that difference is significant enough that they will not buy an SS amp.

I'm not sure if that was helpful - I've never played any expensive SS amps (the line 6 Vetta is over $1000, no?), but I can definitely say that the common SS amps that people have (Roland cubes, Vox valvetronix, Line 6 spiders, etc) lack the tone of a true tube amp. The versatility, though, is cool to have.
Last edited by MudaFoka at Apr 7, 2008,
#21
Quote by STriNG-RaY
i have owned Analog SS, Digital SS, and tube

and ill state it as a fact Digital amps have the worst tone in comparison to all


Maybe I missed this part, but who are you to state what is the 'best'? Last time I checked tone is subjective.

its not real tone its digital jesus christ


It's not real tone? I'm sure I'd get a good laugh out of you trying to explain and back that up.

take for example the line 6 guitars...your not getting a signal from a guitar, pickups etc. its all digital


You clearly don't know what you're talking about. The Variax guitars pick up string vibrations which can be used to model various guitars.

yes i can see the advantage of having 100s of amp models at your fingertips, but its all digital just like how digital keyboards can emulate violins organs etc. your line six is emulating marshalls, fenders, etc.

the vetta might be a good amp if your comparing to other digital amps, or really crappy analog SS or extremely crappy tube amps,

but compared to any good tube amps/Analog SS its total crap


Not only have you made it clear that you don't know what you're talking about, but you've clearly never played a Vetta. You sound like one of the many tube snobs that bash anything modeling related just because of the technology aspect. Like I previously mentioned, I played my Vetta 2 alongside my friends Mesa Dual Recto., Valve King, and 6505. Not only could it keep up, but it sounded just as good as those amps cranked. I'll put my Vetta 2 up against any amp. You'd be surprised how good it is, but that means you'd have to actually play one without your head in the clouds.

According to you modeling amps can't be compared to 'good' tube amps and other SS amps. So, none of that really matters then.

and if digital is so great why'd line 6 decide to put tubes in their spider amps????


Sounds to me like someone is afraid of change. What's the problem with a company designing new products?
#22
Quote by Guitarmiester
Maybe I missed this part, but who are you to state what is the 'best'? Last time I checked tone is subjective.


It's not real tone? I'm sure I'd get a good laugh out of you trying to explain and back that up.


You clearly don't know what you're talking about. The Variax guitars pick up string vibrations which can be used to model various guitars.


Not only have you made it clear that you don't know what you're talking about, but you've clearly never played a Vetta. You sound like one of the many tube snobs that bash anything modeling related just because of the technology aspect. Like I previously mentioned, I played my Vetta 2 alongside my friends Mesa Dual Recto., Valve King, and 6505. Not only could it keep up, but it sounded just as good as those amps cranked. I'll put my Vetta 2 up against any amp. You'd be surprised how good it is, but that means you'd have to actually play one without your head in the clouds.

According to you modeling amps can't be compared to 'good' tube amps and other SS amps. So, none of that really matters then.


Sounds to me like someone is afraid of change. What's the problem with a company designing new products?



i never said i didnt like SS technology, i do like solid state analog amps
i just hate digital amps because of the "digital" sounding tone,lack of wramth etc. (which imho is crap), yes ive tried the Vetta 2, hd147, flextone II/III, spider (they are in practically every guitar store), and i did in fact buy a digital amp for its versatility, then sold it...( i even had that floor board)

you guys seem overly angry that im bashing your digital technology, modelled tone is never better than the real thing.

the fact that the vetta 2 is yours and your comparing it to your friend's amp already presents a bias...i mean its your amp why would you say its crappier than someone else's?

where in my case i actually owned a line 6 amp (flextone III) which was alrite but sh*t compared to any analog amp i own


like i said avoid digital amps...why get modelled tone when you can get the real thing especially for the price of a vetta amp.....

its digital man jesus get that through your head, its modelled after Analog tones, and it does not sound the same and even as close to as good as the real thing

would you rather have sex with a fake blow up doll or a real woman?!?


even email line 6 and ask "are the tones of the amp models you provide better than the real thing?" i would love ot see the answer you get
#23
Quote by STriNG-RaY
i just hate digital amps because of the "digital" sounding tone


That's the typical response you get in every thread regarding modeling amps. I've fooled quite a few people into thinking I was using a tube amp when I was actually using a modeler. The "it sounds digital" comment is the easy way out that everyone says when they're too embarrassed to admit that modeling technology can sound good.

Nobody ever said modeling is better than the real thing. All I'm saying is that it can sound good, but some people have their head so far up their ass they'll never even think to say a modeler can sound good.

What's wrong with the fact that I bought a Vetta 2? I wouldn't have bought the amp if it sounded like ****. I'm not close-minded like, I'll admit when something truly sounds good and/or bad rather than make judgements. If modeling is so bad, why would pro's be using it? Dave Mustaine, Meshuggah, Ron Thal, Trent Reznor, Adrian Belew, Steve Wilson, and many others use the Vetta 2 live and/or in the studio. They must not know anything about tone since they're using a modeling amp, right? You seem to know what is the 'best' and what sucks.

Quote by STriNG-RaY
even email line 6 and ask "are the tones of the amp models you provide better than the real thing?" i would love ot see the answer you get


Are you serious? It's a modeling amp. The whole point is to model well-known and sought after amps. Nobody ever said they're better than the real thing or supposed to be better than the real thing. Anyone with a brain can figure that out. If you can't wrap your head around the concept of a modeling amp, then maybe you shouldn't be posting.

Quote by STriNG-RaY
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Keep your fantasies to yourself.
#24
Well i think its the first time that people talk about the difference btw ANALOG and digital Solid states.
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#25
modelling isnt that bad but compared to other great tube/ss analog amps it is nothing

...this of course doesnt mean that digital amps cant give you decent tones (yes they are capable of this), what im trying to get at is if you have the money, why buy the models when you can buy the real damn thing especially when it sounds so much better. Hence the "avoid digital amps" in the beginning

take my line 6 for example, it was an ok amp especially for the price and versatility
the jcm800 amp model being one of my favourites, but compare that model to the real thing, there is a huge tonal difference, which imho makes the real jcm800 vastly better than a digital model of it.

and dont try to use artist who use digital modelling amps in your argument because there are WAY MORE artist who use analog be it tube or SS (more so tubes)

as for the variax guitar , "..The sound goes through our patented modeling process to shape the raw signal and replicate the sounds of the modeled instruments."(from line 6 site) ..analog -->digital=digital so it is a digital guitar ... so i dont know what im wrong about

digitally modelled sound cannot exactly reproduce any amp tone (at this time and age at least), let alone surpass the tone of analog.

so therefore a digital amp is not better tone wise than an analog amp, although it is immensly better than any analog amp in terms of versatility
#26
What's wrong with the guys who use modeling amps? Just because more people use tube amps doesn't mean that's what everyone has to use or that's the only thing that sounds good.

I'm not sure why you keep trying to claim that everything sounds better than a modeling amp and that they're only good for versatility. Tone is subjective. I used to have my doubts about modeling amps and never would have thought I'd buy a Vetta 2, but I went against all of the generalizations and perceptions of modeling technology and let my ears decide rather than my eyes.
#27
Quote by STriNG-RaY
i have owned Analog SS, Digital SS, and tube

and ill state it as a fact Digital amps have the worst tone in comparison to all
its not real tone its digital jesus christ
take for example the line 6 guitars...your not getting a signal from a guitar, pickups etc. its all digital

yes i can see the advantage of having 100s of amp models at your fingertips, but its all digital just like how digital keyboards can emulate violins organs etc. your line six is emulating marshalls, fenders, etc.

the vetta might be a good amp if your comparing to other digital amps, or really crappy analog SS or extremely crappy tube amps,

but compared to any good tube amps/Analog SS its total crap


and if digital is so great why'd line 6 decide to put tubes in their spider amps????


The Line 6 Vetta is a very good sounding digital amp. Cheaper digital amps tend to sound bad because they have a cheap A/D converter. The Spider Valve is still a modelling amp, it's just a modelling amp with a tube amp attached to the modeller.

Quote by MudaFoka
I'm not an expert on this debate, but I'd like to make a small contribution:

How you ever noticed how often SS amps are advertised as "simulating tube tone?" Here are some examples:

Traynor DG60R - "Traynor 65-watt DynaGain60R Series employs three-stage dynamic tube emulation circuitry and a proprietary continuously variable Contour' control to provide unparalleled tube-like tone from a solid-state amplifier."

Vox valvetronix - "Vox's patented Valve Reactor technology provides genuine tube tone with the stability of solid-state sound."

etc, etc.

So, the definite advantage of an SS amp is that it can simulate a lot of different tubes all in one amp. The valvetronix is a great example, as it has many different settings to simulate all kinds of different amps. The problem is that it's still only a simulation, and as many of the tone purists will argue, you lose a lot of the tone of those tube amps in the SS simulation. It's kind of like learning to be a pilot and flying simulations versus the real thing: simulations can provide a reliable experience of what flying is like, but there are going to be many subtleties of the real thing that make it a different experience. Likewise with SS amps, they provide a simulated tone of different tube amps that is pretty good, but a real tube amp sounds different. And for many people, that difference is significant enough that they will not buy an SS amp.

I'm not sure if that was helpful - I've never played any expensive SS amps (the line 6 Vetta is over $1000, no?), but I can definitely say that the common SS amps that people have (Roland cubes, Vox valvetronix, Line 6 spiders, etc) lack the tone of a true tube amp. The versatility, though, is cool to have.


You're confusing solid-state and digital. A solid-state amp is an analogue device with transistors. A digital/modeling amp also uses transistors(in the digital computer that processes the sound, you could build one with tubes but it would be the size of a house), but can have either a solidstate or a tube amp attached to the modeller.
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Last edited by STABxYOU at Apr 8, 2008,
#29
Quote by Highwaytohell
SHUT UP

... just buy splawn FTW!


i would IF I COULD AFFORD IT

quickrods dont have clean channels do they?
#30
Since tone is subjective...I think Vetta II sounds like ass.

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#31
Quote by STABxYOU
The Line 6 Vetta is a very good sounding digital amp. Cheaper digital amps tend to sound bad because they have a cheap A/D converter. The Spider Valve is still a modelling amp, it's just a modelling amp with a tube amp attached to the modeller.


You're confusing solid-state and digital. A solid-state amp is an analogue device with transistors. A digital/modeling amp also uses transistors(in the digital computer that processes the sound, you could build one with tubes but it would be the size of a house), but can have either a solidstate or a tube amp attached to the modeller.


so you can not interchange solid state and digital?
so solid state means analog (based on transistor etc.) and digital amps are modellings amps but cant be called SS? thats what i got from what ive read on magazines website etc.
i usually label both, analogue device with transistors and modelling amps as Solid state (SS digital and SS analogue) is this incorrect?

so i can call something like a fender frontman solid state and call line 6 a modelling amp and not digital solid state? (ive seen a lot of ppl do this btw, which is why i do too.)


im not to sure now

regardless, i still stand by my points

yes vetta 2 is a very good DIGITAL amp maybe one of the best DIGITAL amps out there, but analouge/the real thing is always better tonewise which is why you should avoid digital amps

unless your looking for versatiliy than digital is your best option


..so im taking it that the valves in the spider a gimmick?? i mean it still gonna be a digital amp and not a true tube amp
#32
Quote by STriNG-RaY
i would IF I COULD AFFORD IT

quickrods dont have clean channels do they?


I believe the Nitro and the Super Stock both have a clean channel, but I could be wrong.
#34
Yea, today was one of those days... had a lot going on, didn't mean to come across as an ass.
#35
For someone who can't play terribly loud (I'm in a dorm) and is looking for a good metal sound, is a tube worth it? Or will I not be able to get the most out of it at the lower volumes?
#36
Quote by Guitarmiester
I believe the Nitro and the Super Stock both have a clean channel, but I could be wrong.

Nitro, Quickrod, and Superstock all have a clean channel with indepenent EQ.
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