#1
I've asked this before in the normal electric guitar forum but I just wanted a second opinion in here. When playing the pentatonic scales, I find it much easier to start with an up-stroke as this is the way I have learned to do it and can play them much faster this way . With my major modes etc I start with a down-stroke. It doesn't seem to slow me down or cause any problems I just wanted your opinion on whether I should re-learn them or not.
Cheers, Josh.
#2
well if you alternate pick using an upstroke first you will end up using outside picking to chang strings, while usinag a downstroke makes inside picking possible. So its important one can do both. Hope that answers your question.
hoimhi0et0hm03oi
#3
Learn both, when it comes to improvising, you'll be much better off if you can make your fingers do anything you want .
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#5
Quote by Jaudio-stang
I've asked this before in the normal electric guitar forum but I just wanted a second opinion in here. When playing the pentatonic scales, I find it much easier to start with an up-stroke as this is the way I have learned to do it and can play them much faster this way . With my major modes etc I start with a down-stroke. It doesn't seem to slow me down or cause any problems I just wanted your opinion on whether I should re-learn them or not.
Cheers, Josh.


If it's not causing a problem, why ask? I'll give my opinion anyway:

Why you have one way of "starting your picking" for pentatonics vs anything else
makes no sense to me. If there's no specific reason to do something in a
certain way all the time, it can really only be a limit you've put on your playing. If
it doesn't bother you, it doesn't. Personally, if I noticed I was doing that, I think
it would bother me and I'd fix it.
#6
The pentatonic scale has only two notes per string, I guess that's why I've aquired this odd way of playing them. I can play both ways, but it feels more comfortable starting with an up-stroke.
#7
Quote by Jaudio-stang
The pentatonic scale has only two notes per string, I guess that's why I've aquired this odd way of playing them. I can play both ways, but it feels more comfortable starting with an up-stroke.

Not really, the minor pentatonic has as many or as few notes per string as you choose to use.

I really don't get the whole obsession with playing scales. If I want to get better I just practice, well, stuff - I use horizontal runs, little licks, things based round chords, all sorts of stuff. Me, I want to get good at playing the guitar, not practising the guitar, so I make sure that everything I work on is going to have some practical use in my playing.

Over-emphasising something just makes you better at that particular thing. When people say "Scales help you get faster, I worked on the minor scale and I can now shred through it at 180bpm but I seem to have stalled, how do I get faster" it's pointless bollocks. Of course you can play that scale pattern quickly, because you've been obsessively grinding it for days on end, however all you've actually achieved is learning to play that scale quickly. You're not a "faster" player, you're just fast at that one exercise...you're not a musician, you're a machine. There's nothing particularly useful about being able to play a straight scale pattern at speed.

The ability to focus on something and practice dilligently is a rare gift, one I certainly don't posses... if you're so blessed then please for your sake focus on something more useful.
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#8
Quote by Jaudio-stang
The pentatonic scale has only two notes per string, I guess that's why I've aquired this odd way of playing them. I can play both ways, but it feels more comfortable starting with an up-stroke.



your right, the commonly used pentatonic scales have 2 notes per string. the reason what your doing is comfortable for you is that it allows you to pick outside. Most people find this easier ( I know I do). part of playing fast /smooth/ clean ... is taking advantages of things like this.

There is nothing wrong with it, and its nothing you have to relearn. You may want to experiment with doing it the other way around, but you dont have to.
shred is gaudy music
#9
If it's an inside vs outside picking issue, then the advice seems to be favor your
good one, avoid your weak one.

The way I'd look at it is the weaker one puts limits on my playing when I'm in a
situation I'd want to use it. So, I'd work on my weaker more to equalize them and
potentially have fewer limitations.

You never, ever HAVE to do anything. But, some things further and some things don't. I'd definitely put avoiding weaknesses into the predominantly not furthering
category.
#10
Quote by edg
If it's an inside vs outside picking issue, then the advice seems to be favor your
good one, avoid your weak one.

The way I'd look at it is the weaker one puts limits on my playing when I'm in a
situation I'd want to use it. So, I'd work on my weaker more to equalize them and
potentially have fewer limitations.

You never, ever HAVE to do anything. But, some things further and some things don't. I'd definitely put avoiding weaknesses into the predominantly not furthering
category.


are you talking about my advice?

because if you are it has nothing to do with avoiding weakness. There is no reason to look at it that way. I didnt suggest avoiding anything. Do you see the word avoid in my post?
I was just explaining why starting with an upstroke feels comfortable.

as far as furthering yourself or not:

different methods work for different situations. realizing that one way may be more efficient than another in a given situation belongs in the "furthering" category.

again to the TS...

what your doing is not in any way "odd".. it makes sense to do that with patterns that are 2 notes per string. its comfortable, efficient, and consistent.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 10, 2008,
#11
Quote by GuitarMunky


different methods work for different situations. realizing that one way may be more efficient than another in a given situation belongs in the "furthering" category.


Dude, nice spin. Maybe you'd care to explain how outside picking is more efficient?

It's cool man. What you say probably makes a lot of sense (to some people).
It's all good.
#12
Quote by edg
Dude, nice spin. Maybe you'd care to explain how outside picking is more efficient?

It's cool man. What you say probably makes a lot of sense (to some people).
It's all good.



just try it and see.

play this pattern repeatedly.
try it starting with an up (outside picking)
try it starting with a down (inside picking)


------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------
--------------------5--7--5-------------------
------------5---7-------------7--5-----------
---5----7-----------------------------8------5


which way feels better to you?
which way can you play it faster?
which way sounds smoother and more consistant?

I can play this pattern much faster and more consistently with outside picking.
shred is gaudy music
#14
Quote by edg
LOL, dude. I tried that. Both pretty much the same to me. But, I can totally
see how if you're weaker at one way it might seem like it's more inefficient. That's
completely cool.


ummm okaaayy
shred is gaudy music
#15
Quote by GuitarMunky
ummm okaaayy


Yup

Seems hard to believe, but to someone that's actually practiced a lot both
ways and has seen that neither way is more inefficient than the other, it might
not seem that way. It's totaly cool you're happy playing your way though. I
can't get in the pocket with that one, but it's nice you can.
#16
Quote by edg
Yup

Seems hard to believe, but to someone that's actually practiced a lot both
ways and has seen that neither way is more inefficient than the other, it might
not seem that way. It's totaly cool you're happy playing your way though. I
can't get in the pocket with that one, but it's nice you can.



my "way of playing" is utilizing what works best for a given situation.
shred is gaudy music
#17
Quote by GuitarMunky
my "way of playing" is utilizing what works best for a given situation.


Dude, That makes a lot of sense.

Since I don't know what situation may come up, I like to be prepared for anything.

I tried asking for an explanation of why inside picking is less efficient than outside
picking, but you could only give me an example of something you found personally
difficult to do one way over another. I completely understand why you think that
should explain the problem you appear to have with inside picking. It's totally
cool.
Last edited by edg at Apr 11, 2008,
#18
Quote by edg
Dude, That makes a lot of sense.

Since I don't know what situation may come up, I like to be prepared for anything.

I tried asking for an explanation of why inside picking is less efficient than outside
picking, but you could only give me an example of something you found personally
difficult to do one way over another. I completely understand why you think that
should explain the problem you appear to have with inside picking. It's totally
cool.


fair enough. I should have said to the TS that the reason he is doing that is because many people find outside picking to be easier. My idea was to point to "why" he may be doing that.

the reality is its people that are more efficient or less efficient at certain things. the technique itself is what it is. with practice it certainly is possible to get proficient at a particular technique.

that being said, being aware of and taking advantage of your strengths can help to "further" your playing.


so you consider yourself to be "prepared for anything"?

also you implied that you are equally proficient at inside picking as you are at outside picking. got any examples of that? I could use the inspiration.
shred is gaudy music
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 11, 2008,
#19
Quote by GuitarMunky


so you consider yourself to be "prepared for anything"?

also you implied that you are equally proficient at inside picking as you are at outside picking. got any examples of that? I could use the inspiration.


No, I'd don't consider myself prepared for anything. There isn't enough time. Only
the things I've personally evaluated as being more important and useful than others.
Inside vs outside picking I evaluated as worth some extra work as it seems to me
to touch many potential playing situations. YMMV.

Actually, I was *more* comfortable inside picking at first. I had to work more on
outside. I did a lot of specific work on that practicing ascending/descending
diatonic 4ths and/or some of the "cross string picking mechanics" from Stetina's
Speed Mechanics (which are basically just pentatonic exercises). Any of the MP3's
in my profile would be an example as I don't think about it either way any more.
I couldn't point to any specific spot. If you really need the inspiration I could
record something specific when I get a chance. It doesn't necessarily prove anything as you'd have to trust I was doing what I said I was, but there ya go.
#20
Quote by Jaudio-stang
The pentatonic scale has only two notes per string, I guess that's why I've aquired this odd way of playing them. I can play both ways, but it feels more comfortable starting with an up-stroke.

The penatonic scale has 5 notes, all 5 of those notes are on each 6 strings.
#21
I just skipped through the big discussion, but here's my best advice: learn to play the scale starting on both a downstroke and an upstroke. It'll develop new neural connections because you're challenging yourself, and you'll be able to alternate pick no matter what stroke you're starting on.
#22
Quote by Peaceful Rocker
The penatonic scale has 5 notes, all 5 of those notes are on each 6 strings.


hes obviously referring to the common pentatonic scale patterns..... which ofcourse are usually played 2 notes per string.
shred is gaudy music