Poll: Are you anti-war?
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View poll results: Are you anti-war?
Yes
60 55%
No
50 45%
Voters: 110.
Page 1 of 2
#1
I'm sure with the hundreds of people online, a few people are anti-war.

I'm not trying to have any meaning behind this question, but I'm just honestly wondering what people who are completely anti-war think of World War II?

And you don't have to be anti-war to give your thoughts here as well.

By the way, I don't consider myself anti-war.
#2
you can't really talk about WWII without talking about WWI and if you're anti-war (like me) you can state that without WWI there would have been no WWII. The Allies set themselves up for another war by pressuring Germany so much after WWI i think, but honestly war is pointless. Either you're fighting for economic gain or religious expansion/freedom. Economic gain and religious expansion both originate from greed, and without it i think the world would surely be a better place.
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#3
I'm anti-war when it comes to starting wars and police actions.

But, if a nation is attacked, like were on Pearl Harbor, then I can understand going to war, because it's national defense.

Now, Iraq? I'm against that. It has no more purpose, and we should have been out of there years ago.


Also, I'm not one of those "good vs. evil" types of evil. There is no good evil. It's all perspective. One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.
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#4
I don't think war is a good solution, but hey, without it we wouldn't have america. And uh... yeah.

Quote by Waterboy799
you can't really talk about WWII without talking about WWI and if you're anti-war (like me) you can state that without WWI there would have been no WWII. The Allies set themselves up for another war by pressuring Germany so much after WWI i think, but honestly war is pointless. Either you're fighting for economic gain or religious expansion/freedom. Economic gain and religious expansion both originate from greed, and without it i think the world would surely be a better place.


Oh yeah it was totally the allies fault...
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#5
The Treaty of Versailles set up World War 2, and anit-semmitism was present in europe for a long time before the holocaust. However the assisnation of Franz Ferdinand really led to one world war, they just took a 20 year break and went at it again.
#6
The whole reason WWII happened was because the Allies half-assed their destabilization of Germany. They should have either been very tolerant, and only punished Germany mildly and even offered her peace talks and eventual alliance, or completely stripped the country of any rights. Look at what's happening in Iraq. We should have either sat idly by, or kicked the God damned door in and gone all out. Because we took it so lightly after Hussein was ousted, we're now reaping the benefit.

The irony is that a moderate choice isn't always to best way to end a war; sometimes you have to go for an extreme.
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#7
Yes. I think war should be avoided unless more people would die as a result of a lack of intervention (WW2). However, this is rarely the case.
#9
Quote by Waterboy799
you can't really talk about WWII without talking about WWI and if you're anti-war (like me) you can state that without WWI there would have been no WWII. The Allies set themselves up for another war by pressuring Germany so much after WWI i think, but honestly war is pointless. Either you're fighting for economic gain or religious expansion/freedom. Economic gain and religious expansion both originate from greed, and without it i think the world would surely be a better place.



well if they weren't so hard on germany they could've been able to build up more of an army and more weapons and we could all be possibly be speaking german right now.
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#10
Quote by Riddler
The whole reason WWII happened was because the Allies half-assed their destabilization of Germany. They should have either been very tolerant, and only punished Germany mildly and even offered her peace talks and eventual alliance, or completely stripped the country of any rights. Look at what's happening in Iraq. We should have either sat idly by, or kicked the God damned door in and gone all out. Because we took it so lightly after Hussein was ousted, we're now reaping the benefit.

The irony is that a moderate choice isn't always to best way to end a war; sometimes you have to go for an extreme.


You might just as well say it's the guy who injured hitler in world war 1's fault...
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#11
Quote by Kensai
I don't think war is a good solution, but hey, without it we wouldn't have america. And uh... yeah.

This sums up my view.
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#12
Quote by Kensai
You might just as well say it's the guy who injured hitler in world war 1's fault...


Oh don't get me wrong; the fascist Germans were completely in the wrong. The only gripe I have with the Allies' decision was their lack of foresight.

Think of it like this. You and I have a fight. I win, I humiliate you, and I take your car. Then I kind of leave you free to do whatever you want, instead of making sure you're not going to try and get back at me or trying to make up and have us be friends. Naturally, when you build yourself back up, and are strong again, as strong or stronger than me, you're of course gonna wanna kick my ass and get back at me, especially if you have some really strong friends to help you fight my friends.

It's a crude anecdote, but can you see where I'm driving at?
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#13
Quote by Kensai
I don't think war is a good solution, but hey, without it we wouldn't have america. And uh... yeah.


Oh yeah it was totally the allies fault...


actually, it was. If the Allies hadn't pressured Germany so heavily then Germany would have had little reason to go back and fight against the Allies again. They wouldn't need to reclaim the lands that were stolen from them in the Treaty of Versailles, they wouldn't have had to pay off the reperations the Treaty placed on them, and they wouldn't have had to downsize their army. Anyway Germany was dragged into WWI by Austria-Hungry, so the start of WWI wasn't really Germany's fault, they were only participants.

that's just , my views on it all, you can disagree if you wish...
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#14
Quote by Riddler
The whole reason WWII happened was because the Allies half-assed their destabilization of Germany. They should have either been very tolerant, and only punished Germany mildly and even offered her peace talks and eventual alliance, or completely stripped the country of any rights. Look at what's happening in Iraq. We should have either sat idly by, or kicked the God damned door in and gone all out. Because we took it so lightly after Hussein was ousted, we're now reaping the benefit.

The irony is that a moderate choice isn't always to best way to end a war; sometimes you have to go for an extreme.


are you ****ing kidding me germany had no rights after ww1. learn about the treaty of versie i don't know how to spell it but that was the treaty implemanted after ww1 otwards germany and i kept their country very poor with no military until hilter

the only reason we didn't do anyhting was because our countries where going through a depression and the nazi's had complete control of everything in the country including media so we really had no idea what they where doing and didn't really care about tit cause we has our own problems
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#15
Quote by Kensai
Oh yeah it was totally the allies fault...


Maybe you should pay attention in history class next time. The Allies set Germany up for severe depression. This severe depression made the people of Germany desperate enough to follow anyone who bring Germany back it's former glory i.e. Hitler.

Anyways, comparing Iraq to World War 2 is completely silly. Germany was aggressively attacking other countries and was an imminent threat. Also, we were attacked as well. (Though you could draw a parallel between pearl harbor and 9/11 if you believe they were both excuses for war. Even though 9/11 was not connected to Iraq in any way.) While the Iraq war was a war based on false intelligence, lies, and greed. (Once again you could probably draw some parallels here with the military industrial complex but we weren't in any danger of being attacked by Iraq after it takes over the middle east.)

BUT, I don't think any of that matters and that as human beings we should respect each other and stop fighting. Everybody doesn't have to love everybody else but at least respect them enough to live life they wanna live as long as it's not ****ing with you. If it is ****ing with you, be civil about it.
#16
this part of the treaty of versailles is why i think britian and canada joined ww2

Belgium, the whole world will agree, must be evacuated and restored, without any attempt to limit the sovereignty which she enjoys in common with all other free nations. No other single act will serve as this will serve to restore confidence among the nations in the laws which they have themselves set and determined for the government of their relations with one another. Without this healing act the whole structure and validity of international law is forever impaired.

it wasn't untill germany marched through belguim that we joined the war. it was part of the plan to take france i believe. the sleifen plan or something like that. they psplit into 2 and attack from 2 side i think east and west??? i don't remmember
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#17
Quote by Riddler
Oh don't get me wrong; the fascist Germans were completely in the wrong. The only gripe I have with the Allies' decision was their lack of foresight.

Think of it like this. You and I have a fight. I win, I humiliate you, and I take your car. Then I kind of leave you free to do whatever you want, instead of making sure you're not going to try and get back at me or trying to make up and have us be friends. Naturally, when you build yourself back up, and are strong again, as strong or stronger than me, you're of course gonna wanna kick my ass and get back at me, especially if you have some really strong friends to help you fight my friends.

It's a crude anecdote, but can you see where I'm driving at?


Nice pun

And yes I do your point. I think the alles did regulate alot of germany's military, but after a while they stopped caring/didn't have the same relations/hitler made it a secret.

Quote by Waterboy799
actually, it was. If the Allies hadn't pressured Germany so heavily then Germany would have had little reason to go back and fight against the Allies again. They wouldn't need to reclaim the lands that were stolen from them in the Treaty of Versailles, they wouldn't have had to pay off the reperations the Treaty placed on them, and they wouldn't have had to downsize their army. Anyway Germany was dragged into WWI by Austria-Hungry, so the start of WWI wasn't really Germany's fault, they were only participants.

that's just , my views on it all, you can disagree if you wish...


I'm sorry, did anyone force germany to invade anyone after WW1?

Quote by Zycho
Maybe you should pay attention in history class next time. The Allies set Germany up for severe depression. This severe depression made the people of Germany desperate enough to follow anyone who bring Germany back it's former glory i.e. Hitler.


Don't lecture me on history, boy...

How the hell is that an excuse for war? Hitler fixed the economy then lured the people into invasion, and you call that the allies' fault?
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#18
Quote by magnus_maximus
Sorry, but what?

America wanted nothing to do with European politics at all, s othey can't be directly blamed for teh war. Really, they weren't one of the 'Allies' at all until 1941. America could have stopped the war way back in the 1920's when Woodrow Wilson tried to start the League of Nations to try and force disarmament, however, Congress refused to ratify Wilson's motion to join, and so Americaleft at the first oppurtunity to stop Germany. America is in no place to criticise anyone about starting WWII whan their negligence set the road to the war in the first place.


i thought that the League of Nations was in Wilson's 10 points which he tried to put into the Treaty of Versailles after the war not before. The only reason America got involved in the war was because of an economic reason. America was trading with the European countries during the war and was using the countries need for supplies as a way of making money in America. Germany never wanted America to enter the war, but the Zimmerman note put pressure on Wilson to enter, and America intervened to make sure that all of the allies that America traded with would win so they could pay America for their trade.

Economic gain was the reason for entering the war. A product of greed.

Quote by Kensai

I'm sorry, did anyone force germany to invade anyone after WW1?


no, no one put a gun to Germany's head per se, but because Austria-Hungry was an ally of Germany, they asked Germany to help them. Germany didn't initially start the fighting but helped out a friend fight their battles.
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#19
Quote by Zycho
Maybe you should pay attention in history class next time. The Allies set Germany up for severe depression. This severe depression made the people of Germany desperate enough to follow anyone who bring Germany back it's former glory i.e. Hitler.

Anyways, comparing Iraq to World War 2 is completely silly. Germany was aggressively attacking other countries and was an imminent threat. Also, we were attacked as well. (Though you could draw a parallel between pearl harbor and 9/11 if you believe they were both excuses for war. Even though 9/11 was not connected to Iraq in any way.) While the Iraq war was a war based on false intelligence, lies, and greed. (Once again you could probably draw some parallels here with the military industrial complex but we weren't in any danger of being attacked by Iraq after it takes over the middle east.)

BUT, I don't think any of that matters and that as human beings we should respect each other and stop fighting. Everybody doesn't have to love everybody else but at least respect them enough to live life they wanna live as long as it's not ****ing with you. If it is ****ing with you, be civil about it.


False intelligence? Do you even know why we (at the very least on the international level, I'm not going into American politics here) even got involved in Iraq in the first place?

After the Gulf War, the UN decided that Iraq must have inspections to make sure Hussein wasn't making any biological/nuclear weapons. Well in the following ten years, he didn't allow the UN inspectors in, which forced us to believe that he was hiding nukes and/or chemical weapons.

When we say we're going in, and basically told him that we were, he didn't do anything to stop us or to prove that he had nothing. And when we find out he really had nothing, that proves one thing: he's crazy. Instead of taking his money and leaving, he let us walk in and take his country. We can't allow a crazy person in charge of a country, especially if the country MIGHT be able to make highly dangerous and illegal weapons.

And you completely missed my point on comparing the PUNISHMENT of Germany after WWI to our RECONSTRUCTION of Iraq after we took over.
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#20
Quote by Waterboy799

Economic gain was the reason for entering the war. A product of greed.




Are you sure it wasn't, you know, the Zimmerman note? Or perhaps that Germany had forsaken its agreement with us regarding its unannounced sinking of merchant vessels, most of which had American citizens on board?
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#21
Yes I am anti-war. What do I think about World War 2? Well I guess that was a bit different, seeing as we were actually attacked. I support self-defense war, but not acting as the aggressor.
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#22
I'm anti-needless war. the U.S. and it's allies where attacked during WWII and it was essential for us to get involved. Especially considering that both Germany and Japan eventually planned on taking over the U.S.

As for the Treaty of Versailles, yes that had something to do with it, but there where a lot of other factors involved too, like the Great Depression.
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#23
From what I see here after reading the first few posts is that everybody, for the most part, agrees on an anti-war unless it's absolutely necessary perspective. All the arguments seems to me like it's just being really nit-picky about history.
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#24
Quote by Riddler
Are you sure it wasn't, you know, the Zimmerman note? Or perhaps that Germany had forsaken its agreement with us regarding its unannounced sinking of merchant vessels, most of which had American citizens on board?


I already mentioned the Zimmerman note, but speaking of which in the Zimmerman note, Germany clearly stated that they DIDN'T want to go the war with America, only in the event that they would fight, would Germany form an alliance with Mexico. So in the eyes of ignorant Americans "dems fightin' words" if you actually read what the letter says then you'd see Germany wanted peace with America.

also

Germany agreed to not sink boats with civilians on board and to only attack boats with ammunition at first. Britain used this to their advantage and started hiding ammunition of normal ships and once the U Boats came up to check if the incoming ship was a merchant ship or a ship with ammo, the British ship would destroy the U Boat. Look at this from a German point of view, would you stand to have your ships destroyed because you agreed to be lenient? If anything the disregarding of the agreement was more Britain's fault than Germany's.
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#25
Quote by magnus_maximus
Sorry, but what?

America wanted nothing to do with European politics at all, s othey can't be directly blamed for teh war. Really, they weren't one of the 'Allies' at all until 1941. America could have stopped the war way back in the 1920's when Woodrow Wilson tried to start the League of Nations to try and force disarmament, however, Congress refused to ratify Wilson's motion to join, and so Americaleft at the first oppurtunity to stop Germany. America is in no place to criticise anyone about starting WWII whan their negligence set the road to the war in the first place.

But then again, it's Britain's fault Germany had a navy and U-Boats. We bloody allowed them parity with our U-Boats and a third of our tonnage in naval ships, and considering our navy was twice the size of France and Spain's combined...

Again, it comes back to France. We couldn't have "been so hard" on them, because as long as France refused to disarm, Germany would have an excuse to rearm citing "French Aggression". They even built the "Maginot line" - a military installation covering the entire French German border - which was basically saying "just try and invade us".



umm, i wasn't saying it was america's fault. i don't see how you got that...


but overall, it's germany's fault.


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#26
Quote by Waterboy799
actually, it was. If the Allies hadn't pressured Germany so heavily then Germany would have had little reason to go back and fight against the Allies again. They wouldn't need to reclaim the lands that were stolen from them in the Treaty of Versailles, they wouldn't have had to pay off the reperations the Treaty placed on them, and they wouldn't have had to downsize their army. Anyway Germany was dragged into WWI by Austria-Hungry, so the start of WWI wasn't really Germany's fault, they were only participants.

that's just , my views on it all, you can disagree if you wish...


Dude WWI happened because everyone was all decked out with weapons and ready to fight they were waiting for the first wrong move and Serbia gave them what Germany wanted. Germany was kind of instigating everyone.
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#27
Quote by Waterboy799
no, no one put a gun to Germany's head per se, but because Austria-Hungry was an ally of Germany, they asked Germany to help them. Germany didn't initially start the fighting but helped out a friend fight their battles.


But how does that make WW2 the allies fault?

Quote by magnus_maximus
We didn't just stopcaring/regulating them, we actively encourage military redevelopment! I mean, Britain signed the Anglo-German Naval pact, and Russia trained its soldiers, tank drivers and pilots.

But really, it was inevitable that Germany was at some point going to try and reclaim some of their lost lands. There was nearly a revolution in Austria before the Anschluss, and the Sudeten part of Czechoslovakia was filled with Germans, so if it wasn't invaded, they could simply have revolted, anyway.

A lot of people seem to forget, though, that at the time, people were far more afraid of Communist Russia than Fascist Germany. They WANTED a militarily strong Germany to act as "a bulwark against Communism"(David Lloyd George) to protect them from them. After all, half of the point of the idea behind Communism was the idea that it had to be spread across the world, by force, if necessary.


Ah, I see. I have been told something about the allies wanting to keep germany's military at a particular size.
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#28
Anti war? Only crazy people are Pro war. I spent a big chunk of my adult life in the Army.
But I was never then and am not now "Pro War". War sucks.
I believe in self defense and self reliance. I do not believe in war. Ya. War happens. And when it does victory belongs to those that are the most prepared. Ya if you don't want the entire planet handing you your ass you had best be the most prepared. But I don't believe in war.
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#29
Quote by Waterboy799
i thought that the League of Nations was in Wilson's 10 points which he tried to put into the Treaty of Versailles after the war not before. The only reason America got involved in the war was because of an economic reason. America was trading with the European countries during the war and was using the countries need for supplies as a way of making money in America. Germany never wanted America to enter the war, but the Zimmerman note put pressure on Wilson to enter, and America intervened to make sure that all of the allies that America traded with would win so they could pay America for their trade.

Economic gain was the reason for entering the war. A product of greed.


no, no one put a gun to Germany's head per se, but because Austria-Hungry was an ally of Germany, they asked Germany to help them. Germany didn't initially start the fighting but helped out a friend fight their battles.


Dude you gotta not be so well I'm anti-war because I'm anti-greed, you realise greed won't go away in some ways it is why the world works. Anyway you are trying to live in a perfect world when it isn't. I don't know I'm not antiwar I'm anti Iraq because it isn't beneficial for us.
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#30
Quote by Kensai
But how does that make WW2 the allies fault?


After WWI the Allies were the ones who placed so many restrictions and reparations on Germany, if those hadn't been placed there would have been less initiative for Germany to fight the Allies again. Germany wouldn't have had to try and take back Poland and Czechoslovakia (i think) which was originally apart of Germany.

If there's someone placing this much pressure on you, you wouldn't like them much either right?

Quote by tayroar
Dude you gotta not be so well I'm anti-war because I'm anti-greed, you realise greed won't go away in some ways it is why the world works. Anyway you are trying to live in a perfect world when it isn't. I don't know I'm not antiwar I'm anti Iraq because it isn't beneficial for us.


Well duh. I know that there are many greedy people in this world, but it would be nice if they weren't there right? then there would be virtually no basis for fighting (besides religion), just because something exists doesn't mean you can't be against it. And you can't say Iraq isn't completely useless for us. If America successfully takes over, then America gets all of their oil and can build new military bases in the country. That's pretty beneficial for America don't you think?
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#31
Quote by Waterboy799
After WWI the Allies were the ones who placed so many restrictions and reparations on Germany, if those hadn't been placed there would have been less initiative for Germany to fight the Allies again. Germany wouldn't have had to try and take back Poland and Czechoslovakia (i think) which was originally apart of Germany.

If there's someone placing this much pressure on you, you wouldn't like them much either right?


Yeah, you kind of were talking about something else when I asked
Still, that's no reason to invade people. I mean, plenty of countries have been invaded/tried to invade someone and ended up losing a big chunk of land.

I think things like that are easy to say in hindsight.
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#32
Quote by Kensai
Yeah, you kind of were talking about something else when I asked
Still, that's no reason to invade people. I mean, plenty of countries have been invaded/tried to invade someone and ended up losing a big chunk of land.

I think things like that are easy to say in hindsight.


was i? sorry then

to the German's invading those countries was considered taking back the land that was stolen from them, to foreigners, it's Germany invading a smaller country.

it all depend on your point of view i guess
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#33
Quote by magnus_maximus
Germany didn't want to take over America, that was just Japan, I think.

Germany wanted to conquer Europe and create a slave Empire in Eastern Europe over the "Untermenschen" Slavs - Russia, Poland etc.



Hitler wrote an unpublished book about his desire to conquer America, though it's not certain how much of it was written before we sent troops over to Europe.
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#34
First of all, i didnt read the whole thread.

Second, i think anyone that is anti-war in this generation, is anti-war because of what war has become and for that reason you can't just throw WWII into the mix. For lack of a better word, war used to be somewhat more "fair", now you've got huge countries like the US invading already debilitated countries like Iraq and to some extent before that Vietnam.

War used to be two big powers bumping heads, now its the big kid in the playground throwing his weight around.
#35
Quote by dispreferred
First of all, i didnt read the whole thread.

Second, i think anyone that is anti-war in this generation, is anti-war because of what war has become and for that reason you can't just throw WWII into the mix. For lack of a better word, war used to be somewhat more "fair", now you've got huge countries like the US invading already debilitated countries like Iraq and to some extent before that Vietnam.

War used to be two big powers bumping heads, now its the big kid in the playground throwing his weight around.


Even if we went to war with another superpower (which would almost inevitably involve massive nuclear destruction) I would still be against it unless our sovereignty was at stake.
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#36
Quote by dispreferred
First of all, i didnt read the whole thread.

Second, i think anyone that is anti-war in this generation, is anti-war because of what war has become and for that reason you can't just throw WWII into the mix. For lack of a better word, war used to be somewhat more "fair", now you've got huge countries like the US invading already debilitated countries like Iraq and to some extent before that Vietnam.

War used to be two big powers bumping heads, now its the big kid in the playground throwing his weight around.

That is how all wars start. You don't start a war with someone you know can kick your ass.
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#37
I'm not anti-war, just anti specific wars (Vietnam, Iraq).
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#38
There isn't any single reason for WWI or WWII. There are a multitude of causes that all played a role. I'd list some of the major ones but I haven't taken any world war history since grade 10 so the memory is a little sketchy haha.
#39
I wouldnt consider myself Anti war but if it will accomplish nothing then ill be against it. usually countries have pretty good reasons for doing so and it usually helps a lot of people so it can be good
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#40
I don't think the term "anitwar" really came about until Vietnam, which was a very controversial and messy war. It doesn't really apply to the previous generation...

But the Allies set themselves up for WWII right after WWI, when they screwed the Triple Alliance over bigtime. So WWII was inevitable. We had a legitimate reason to go to war I guess, but I am still against the act of war itself.

I usually say that there is no honor in the ACT of war, but people do honorable things in war. Like when you jump on a grenade to save your buddy. But that wouldn't have had to happen if they had started the war in the first place.
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