#1
What makes a dissonance chord a dissonance chord, and sound odd. Ive searched but haven't found anything, so could anyone explain them and give me/ show me a list of them?
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#2
Firstly it would be called a dissonant chord. As far as I know there are no guidelines for dissonance, that's what makes it dissonant. Experiment with what sounds good to you. Start off with something like playing C Major, and then add notes to the chords which aren't in the key of C Major.

Dissonance just breaks away from conventional music theory so just do that.
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#3
ohhh, no wonder I couldn't find anything ) thanks.
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#4
Quote by JamesDouglas
Firstly it would be called a dissonant chord. As far as I know there are no guidelines for dissonance, that's what makes it dissonant. Experiment with what sounds good to you. Start off with something like playing C Major, and then add notes to the chords which aren't in the key of C Major.

First off, there are guidelines. Perfect unisons/octaves, major/minor thirds/sixths and perfect fifths are consonant. Anything else is dissonant.

Dissonance just breaks away from conventional music theory so just do that.

Breaks off from conventional music theory? So seventh chords, ninth chords, supsensions, diminished seventh chords etc etc aren't conventional music theory? Get a clue.
#5
Quote by National_Anthem
First off, there are guidelines. Perfect unisons/octaves, major/minor thirds/sixths and perfect fifths are consonant. Anything else is dissonant.

Breaks ofF from conventional music theory? So seventh chords, ninth chords, supsensions, diminished seventh chords etc etc aren't conventional music theory? Get a clue.


Those aren't guidelines to dissonance, those are guidelines to what ISN'T consonance. They are no rules to help structure a dissonant song.

Dissonance isn't about those chords you mentioned, it's about chords that have no traditional relationship with each other for example playing chord clusters. Dissonance also has to do with playing an instrument in a non-traditional way, not just playing a ninth chord. From you definition you could classify Jazz as dissonance.
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#6
Quote by JamesDouglas
Those aren't guidelines to dissonance, those are guidelines to what ISN'T consonance. They are no rules to help structure a dissonant song.

If it isn't consonant, it's dissonant.

Dissonance isn't about those chords you mentioned, it's about chords that have no traditional relationship with each other for example playing chord clusters. Dissonance also has to do with playing an instrument in a non-traditional way, not just playing a ninth chord. From you definition you could classify Jazz as dissonance.


You seem to be getting dissonance confused with atonality. Jazz is very dissonant music, and so is most of western classical music. Tension and release is a HUGE part of western music, and that manifests itself in several ways, but here, we're talking about harmonic tension, and that just wouldn't exist without dissonance.
#7
Quote by National_Anthem
If it isn't consonant, it's dissonant.


That still is not a guideline. Do you think Olympic runners get trained by getting told to do what isn't walking? No. You can't explain something by saying what it isn't but rather what it is.


Quote by National_Anthem
You seem to be getting dissonance confused with atonality. Jazz is very dissonant music, and so is most of western classical music. Tension and release is a HUGE part of western music, and that manifests itself in several ways, but here, we're talking about harmonic tension, and that just wouldn't exist without dissonance.


Ah, perhaps you are correct here. But this still doesn't mean there is a 'guide to dissonance' like there is a guide to harmony and consonance.
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Last edited by JamesDouglas at Apr 10, 2008,
#8
Use the tritone interval : play a note, then play a note 3 tones higher / lower. For example play the open low E string, then play a A# on the A string by fretting the 1st fret. You'll hear a dissonnance between the two notes which is often used in death/black/heavy metal.
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#9
Quote by JamesDouglas
That still is not a guideline. Do you think Olympic runners get trained by getting told to do what isn't walking? No. You can't explain something by saying what it isn't but rather what it is.


Like I said, if an interval isn't consonant, it's dissonant. That means any interval that isn't a perfect unison/octave, minor/major third/sixth or a perfect 5th is dissonant.
#10
First off, there are guidelines. Perfect unisons/octaves, major/minor thirds/sixths and perfect fifths are consonant. Anything else is dissonant.


Dissonance is a musical context is reasonably subjective. Many chords and intervals that are considered consonant today would have been considered unusably dissonant two hundred years ago.
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#11
Quote by Archeo Avis
Dissonance is a musical context is reasonably subjective. Many chords and intervals that are considered consonant today would have been considered unusably dissonant two hundred years ago.


That's true, but that's only because we have been exposed to higher levels of dissonance. In theory, there are clear guidelines between consonance and dissonance, in practise, they aren't nearly so clear. They are still there, though.
#12
A dissonant chord will contain dissonant intervals. To better understand this take some time to look at dissonance and consonance between intervals. As has already been stated, there is a subjective nature to this concept. Still its worthwhile to investigate.


consonance and dissonance
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#13
Quote by National_Anthem
. . . any interval that isn't a perfect unison/octave, minor/major third/sixth or a perfect 5th is dissonant.


You should probably throw a perfect 4th in there also, as it is simply an inverted perfect fifth, and if an interval is consonant, its inversion would be consonant too.

Anyway, consonance and dissonance is determined by the mathematical relationship between the wavelengths of two notes. Sadly, in equal-tempered tuning systems like for guitars, you never really get that nice 3:2 ratio of a perfect 5th, or 4:3 for a perfect 4th, but the fretted notes are close enough to the true overtones, making it still sound okay. The main cause of dissonance is the interference patterns made by having two sound waves being played at frequencies/wavelengths that are very close, but not exactly the same. This causes them to create a kind of pulsing sound. Try tuning with harmonics, and you'll see what I mean when one string is slightly off from another.

So, since two pitches that are close, but not equal, cause this displeasing interference pattern (well, displeasing to some. others may enjoy it), that means that any very small interval will do this, at least to some extent. Minor thirds don't do this; they pretty much sound fine. The wavelengths of major seconds, though, do cause quiet a bit of disturbance to each other, making them dissonant, or, an interval that exhibits tension. Minor seconds are even worse. They cause a great deal of that dissonant interference, which causes a whole mess of tension. That is one reason that a V7 chord goes so well into a I chord; the major seventh interval is only a half-step away from the tonic, which makes it go from a very dissonant interval to a very consonant one.

The other part of the V7 chord that is famous (or infamous) for its dissonance is... THE TRITONE! Even though this interval causes a relationship between the wavelengths that is as far away as possible (ignoring differences in octaves), it causes the most dissonance, due to its very unequal wavelength pattern. I forget the actual ratio, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I believe that in Just tuning (the most accurate way to tune, and arguable the most pure-sounding), the ratio is something around 45:32, which means that every time the tonic note's waves travel 32 wavelengths, or the tritone's waves travel 45 wavelengths, they are in phase with each other. All the rest of the time, they are pulsing like mad, creating a very unpleasant (or pleasant...) relationship.

Consider what I wrote an appetizer for when Isaac_Bandits finds this thread.
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#15
Quote by seedmole
You should probably throw a perfect 4th in there also, as it is simply an inverted perfect fifth, and if an interval is consonant, its inversion would be consonant too.


I left that out on purpose, whilst it's an inversion of a perfect fifth, it doesn't sound particularly consonant; why do you think we have 4-3 suspensions?
#16
Quote by National_Anthem
I left that out on purpose, whilst it's an inversion of a perfect fifth, it doesn't sound particularly consonant; why do you think we have 4-3 suspensions?


Well, the reason a sus4 doesn't sound very consonant is because of the M2 interval between the P4 and P5. If you raise the P5 up to a M6 or m6, then it sounds perfectly fine (which conveniently enough makes it into a second inversion of a major or minor triad, respectively)

Also, if you were gonna leave out inversions, then sixths should have been left out.
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#18
Quote by seedmole
Well, the reason a sus4 doesn't sound very consonant is because of the M2 interval between the P4 and P5. If you raise the P5 up to a M6 or m6, then it sounds perfectly fine (which conveniently enough makes it into a second inversion of a major or minor triad, respectively)

Also, if you were gonna leave out inversions, then sixths should have been left out.


I'm not leaving inversions, I'm just leaving out the fourth. That thought had crossed my mind, but even if you leave out the fifth, it still sounds dissonant. Also, in the renaissance, it was considered a dissonance, and isn't alowed in some species counterpoint.
#19
... *confused*
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#20
Quote by Pinky19
... *confused*


im not surprised. I would be 2.

if you want a simple answer its this:

some intervals are more dissonant than others.

here is a list of intervals from most consonant to most dissonant. it was taken from my theory I class text book. ( it also states that this is somewhat subjective.... but the list is generally accepted).

consonant and dissonant interval chart

memorize that chart. play them and listen. then youll get an idea of what dissonance is.
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Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 10, 2008,