#2
minor pent would probably work, mabye try the lochrian mode
"Play one wrong note and its wrong, play two and its jazz" - Miles Davis
#4
not many ppl have heard of the lochrian mode, mainly cos its only really usefull for mindless shredding, but its the 7th mode,and compared to a natural minor it has a flat 2nd and 5th. but for it to sound decent u really have to emphasise the the flat second and 5th
"Play one wrong note and its wrong, play two and its jazz" - Miles Davis
#5
Quote by zac362
not many ppl have heard of the lochrian mode, mainly cos its only really usefull for mindless shredding, but its the 7th mode,and compared to a natural minor it has a flat 2nd and 5th. but for it to sound decent u really have to emphasise the the flat second and 5th



Wow I learnt something.
Last edited by RichieJovie at Apr 11, 2008,
#6
Quote by RichieJovie
Wow I learnt something.


^ LOL


to the TS:

try minor pentatonic, minor blues, minor

also I would strongly reccomend learning some solos by say... .Buck Dharma, and then learn the scales that are used in that solo.

I always find I get more out of something if I can directly apply it to playing music.
shred is gaudy music
#7
Pentatonic minor and major work very well for hard rock. Do not use the locrian mode it is to unstable.
#8
Quote by zac362
minor pent would probably work, mabye try the lochrian mode

The Locrian mode is very harmonically unstable; you'd have a very tough time doing something in Locrian in the context of a typical hard rock songs.

The minor pentatonic is used a lot, but don't start to think that any one scale will work better than another; concentrate on your phrasing, attack and dynamics and you'll be surprised what you can come up with.

Quote by zac362
not many ppl have heard of the lochrian mode, mainly cos its only really usefull for mindless shredding

At least I had a good laugh at that one. You're not even close.
#9
most the ppl i speak to havent really heard of it, like the fist two ppl in the thread, and because its so harmonically unstable is the reason i only find it good for metal and heavier music, i was only trying to help, theres no need to be such an arse about it
"Play one wrong note and its wrong, play two and its jazz" - Miles Davis
#10
Quote by zac362
most the ppl i speak to havent really heard of it, like the fist two ppl in the thread, and because its so harmonically unstable is the reason i only find it good for metal and heavier music, i was only trying to help, theres no need to be such an arse about it

I'm not being an "arse". It's really used very rarely in metal, and you described the Locrian mode as being used for "mindless shredding", which it's not. You could put a m7b5 chord in any genre, you shouldn't limit yourself like that and generalize it at all. I'm just trying to clear this up for you.

EDIT: By the way, RichieJovie definitely knows what it is. You have to take a course in online sarcasm.
#11
^You'd think the would give it away...


A Hybrid of the minor pentatonic, minor blues, and natural minor scale is very common in hard rock.
Last edited by bangoodcharlote at Apr 11, 2008,
#12
im sorry i dont know what the hell a little smily face thing means, i dont spend all my time sat at a pc , and i definatley arnt gonna sit and argue over the internet. so sorry i tried to help. oh and grow up
"Play one wrong note and its wrong, play two and its jazz" - Miles Davis
#13
Quote by zac362
im sorry i dont know what the hell a little smily face thing means, i dont spend all my time sat at a pc , and i definatley arnt gonna sit and argue over the internet. so sorry i tried to help. oh and grow up

Well, you should have picked up on it, considering he asked it because you spelled it wrong in the first place. You don't have to spend all your time sitting at a computer to piece these things together. You also babbled incorrectly about the Locrian (no "h") mode. Learn the material you're trying to explain BEFORE explaining it and you'll avoid such arguments.
#14
Well sorry to bump this semi-old thread, but I'm a studied and learnt Buck Dharma follower xD.

If you want to sound like him one thing you can do is try some modal stuff. Godzilla and Cities on Flame are both actually Dorian, not Minor, and since the pentatonic fits right in there he basically uses the blues scale along with the appropriate modal scales. Also try out some Mixolydian, he seems to like that quite a bit over the regular major as well.

Another thing he's known for is lots of double-stops in his solos. Remember that you can basically bar the B and E strings on any fret on the high E that's in the key you're in and it's guaranteed to sound good unless it's the leading tone, in which case it would be a diminished fifth and it would sound bad.

Throw in some chromatic passing tones too - they actually CAN sound melodic. See the melody in the middle of Golden Age of Leather as an example.

He also does a bit of bending up to a note then hitting the note, then going back down and bending up and hitting it again, kinda like a triplet feeling kinda thing. He does this in the Spy in the House of the Night opening solo.

Hope that helps xD
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#15
Quote by :-D
Well, you should have picked up on it, considering he asked it because you spelled it wrong in the first place. You don't have to spend all your time sitting at a computer to piece these things together. You also babbled incorrectly about the Locrian (no "h") mode. Learn the material you're trying to explain BEFORE explaining it and you'll avoid such arguments.


he was just trying to help...
dont be haten man
#16
Quote by Agent-Orange
he was just trying to help...
dont be haten man

He didn't really have a clue what he was talking about, so it's not as helpful as you may think. I'm not "haten", just correcting false information.
#20
Quote by Deadmen
What would be some useful scales for hard rock ala la, Blue Oyster Cult, ect.



what cords are you using is the real question
song stuck in my head today


#22
Quote by Agent-Orange
he was just trying to help...
dont be haten man

They see him rollin'...
#23
^they hatin, cause they know hes right and smiley
Quote by :-D
Haha, why is this?

...and sigged immediately to feed my ego.
If I said I loved you, would you sig me?
Quote by Mo Jiggity
Well sorry to bump this semi-old thread, but I'm a studied and learnt Buck Dharma follower xD.

If you want to sound like him one thing you can do is try some modal stuff. Godzilla and Cities on Flame are both actually Dorian, not Minor, and since the pentatonic fits right in there he basically uses the blues scale along with the appropriate modal scales. Also try out some Mixolydian, he seems to like that quite a bit over the regular major as well.

Another thing he's known for is lots of double-stops in his solos. Remember that you can basically bar the B and E strings on any fret on the high E that's in the key you're in and it's guaranteed to sound good unless it's the leading tone, in which case it would be a diminished fifth and it would sound bad.

Throw in some chromatic passing tones too - they actually CAN sound melodic. See the melody in the middle of Golden Age of Leather as an example.

He also does a bit of bending up to a note then hitting the note, then going back down and bending up and hitting it again, kinda like a triplet feeling kinda thing. He does this in the Spy in the House of the Night opening solo.

Hope that helps xD.
Dorian is a mode, not a scale. A song cant be in the key of a mode because the mode changes with the root note of the chords, arpeggios, riffs and any other harmonic device. And it can never sound too "melodic." Chromatic notes can add tension, maybe thats what your talking about?

I've found 99% of hard rock solos are actually blues solos played with distortion, but never sound as "bluesy" as blues. Try using pentatonics, the occasional b5 as an accidental and use out of key notes and bend them in key. I could write pages and pages on how I play blues, but I cbf.

EDIT: and play a little more up tempo. Blues is music for people who want to play slow, hard rock is for people with energy.
Last edited by demonofthenight at Apr 30, 2008,
#25
Quote by :-D
^Sorry, he got to it first, there may be a next time though.

And there most certainly is a Dorian scale.
You *could* say the notes that come from dorian make a scale, but in the end you might as well call that the major scale.

Remember, scales are JUST a collection of notes. Modes are a collection of intervals corresponding from a root, and as the chord changes so does the root. With modes, you should be thinking of intervals not notes. Modes aren't shapes, neither are scales.
#26
Quote by demonofthenight
You *could* say the notes that come from dorian make a scale, but in the end you might as well call that the major scale.

Remember, scales are JUST a collection of notes. Modes are a collection of intervals corresponding from a root, and as the chord changes so does the root. With modes, you should be thinking of intervals not notes. Modes aren't shapes, neither are scales.

Well, what do you think you play in the Dorian mode?

The same way you play a scale corresponding to a key instead of playing a key, you play a scale that is based off the mode.
#27
Quote by :-D
Well, what do you think you play in the Dorian mode?

The same way you play a scale corresponding to a key instead of playing a key, you play a scale that is based off the mode.
But thats wrong and overcomplicated, why not just describe keys as either major or minor like its been done for the past 400 years? Even peices based around the harmonic minor progression have been described as in the key of minor.

Yes, a progression can resolve to a chord that usually (because of diatonics) imply a mode. But that whole peice will not be in that said mode, it just resolves to it.

The way I've always seen modes is that those intervals put together make a certain sound harmonically over that chord. I've always thought modes to be a way of describing the harmonic consonance and dissonance of a group of intervals. You cant say your still in the same mode when the chord changes, because then the mode will change. But you can say your still in the same scale, as you could still be playing the same 7 notes.
#28
Quote by demonofthenight
The way I've always seen modes is that those intervals put together make a certain sound harmonically over that chord. I've always thought modes to be a way of describing the harmonic consonance and dissonance of a group of intervals. You cant say your still in the same mode when the chord changes, because then the mode will change. But you can say your still in the same scale, as you could still be playing the same 7 notes.

Yes, this is correct, but for example, play a D minor pentatonic solo with a B natural thrown in occasionally without a backing; you'll be playing the D Dorian scale even though there's no chording to suggest that you're playing in the D Dorian mode.
#29
Quote by :-D
Yes, this is correct, but for example, play a D minor pentatonic solo with a B natural thrown in occasionally without a backing; you'll be playing the D Dorian scale even though there's no chording to suggest that you're playing in the D Dorian mode.
You can imply a mode/tonal center with the melody. Like by using arpeggios you can really, this is Marty Freidmans word, "outline" the chords. I also think pentatonics and scalar runs imply a tonal center quite well too, but I wouldnt be suprised if you disagreed with me.
#30
Quote by demonofthenight
You can imply a mode/tonal center with the melody. Like by using arpeggios you can really, this is Marty Freidmans word, "outline" the chords. I also think pentatonics and scalar runs imply a tonal center quite well too, but I wouldnt be suprised if you disagreed with me.

No, I agree with that.

What I'm saying is that it's not just a chord that determines a mode; if I had a static Dm7 chord and I played the D minor scale over it, I'm suggesting D minor. In order to suggest D Dorian, I'd need to play the notes D E F G A B C. That's the D Dorian scale, which combines with the Dm7 chord to suggest the D Dorian mode.
#31
Quote by demonofthenight
^they hatin, cause they know hes right and smileyIf I said I loved you, would you sig me? Dorian is a mode, not a scale. A song cant be in the key of a mode because the mode changes with the root note of the chords, arpeggios, riffs and any other harmonic device. And it can never sound too "melodic." Chromatic notes can add tension, maybe thats what your talking about?

I've found 99% of hard rock solos are actually blues solos played with distortion, but never sound as "bluesy" as blues. Try using pentatonics, the occasional b5 as an accidental and use out of key notes and bend them in key. I could write pages and pages on how I play blues, but I cbf.

EDIT: and play a little more up tempo. Blues is music for people who want to play slow, hard rock is for people with energy.


Never said Dorian was a scale... please find me where I did.

Additionally, the mode arguably can be the key of a song, but not the key signature, especially when the melody and the bassline center around F# in the key of E. If you played something minor to that it would sound awkward, and neither E nor C# are acting as tonic in that situation.

And yes, it did sound melodic. Are you trying to tell me that harmonic minor, phrygian dominant, and any other number of exotic scales/modes do not sound melodic?
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#32
D E F G A B C. That's the D Dorian scale
So how is it different to the C major scale?
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#33
Quote by zac362
not many ppl have heard of the lochrian mode, mainly cos its only really usefull for mindless shredding, but its the 7th mode,and compared to a natural minor it has a flat 2nd and 5th. but for it to sound decent u really have to emphasise the the flat second and 5th

Locrian....

Tbh it sounds pretty wank.