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#4
i saw the x files of this. scully denied it until the very end when she almost died. she can still think up a rational explanation for what happened.
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I have no opinion on this matter.
#5
Quote by michal23
Read the article

It's a collection of sentimental, anecdotal evidence that doesn't hold up to scientific scrutiny.

It's also probably shenanigans.
Last edited by rizo299 at Apr 12, 2008,
#6
Has Montague Keen Really Returned From the Dead? - Same website

Yeah they're credible. For sure.
D:
Signature.
#7
Yes...definitely. Unless Satan owns it. Then you're f'cked.
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#8
Hey everyone, I'm here to remind you, just shortly, that YOU DON'T KNOW SH*T, everything you think you know is conjecture and I can prove it, so immediate dismissal of this theory is just as 'silly' or 'irrational' as immediate acceptance.
We've drained full confession booths, polluted drinking wells with our repentances, and then stood grinning with our arms around the shoulder of a rotting child.



If you resist change, you will be here forever.
#9
Quote by NorfIrIon
Hey everyone, I'm here to remind you, just shortly, that YOU DON'T KNOW SH*T, everything you think you know is conjecture and I can prove it, so immediate dismissal of this theory is just as 'silly' or 'irrational' as immediate acceptance.

Please proove it for me. I'd love to hear this.
#10
Quote by rizo299
Please proove it for me. I'd love to hear this.


Well, before I do that, prove you exist.
We've drained full confession booths, polluted drinking wells with our repentances, and then stood grinning with our arms around the shoulder of a rotting child.



If you resist change, you will be here forever.
#11
Quote by NorfIrIon
Well, before I do that, prove you exist.

i swear, you morons and your "my reality" bull****. come on, thats just an excuse to be too unintelligent to understand how things work.
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I have no opinion on this matter.
#12
Quote by Zugunruhe
i swear, you morons and your "my reality" bull****. come on, thats just an excuse to be too unintelligent to understand how things work.

Why would I take the time to do something like that when I could blindly follow a philosophy that allows me to quickly dismiss everything as a lie and thus make me "right"?
It works out so much more easily.
We've drained full confession booths, polluted drinking wells with our repentances, and then stood grinning with our arms around the shoulder of a rotting child.



If you resist change, you will be here forever.
#13
Quote by NorfIrIon
Well, before I do that, prove you exist.

That's a logical fallacy.

Whether I exist or no has no bearing on the argument. Simply bringing up something else that cannot be proved or disproved doesn't make my argument any less valid.
#15
Quote by NorfIrIon
Hey everyone, I'm here to remind you, just shortly, that YOU DON'T KNOW SH*T, everything you think you know is conjecture and I can prove it, so immediate dismissal of this theory is just as 'silly' or 'irrational' as immediate acceptance.


Completely agree.

Anyone who thinks science is *correct*, HAS to realise that we have reached a point where we can't keep finding out what the smaller compositional elements of matter are. In other worlds, science is not about cold hard facts, and has an element of belief to it.

We cant explain a lot of things. We can't decide whether light is a partical or a ray.

No one should discredit anything with some evidence, anecdotal or not.

Sceptical, yes. Disbelieving to the point of sarcasm, no.
Now 100% humour free, in accordance with the rules.

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#16
Quote by Fleabag
Completely agree.

Anyone who thinks science is *correct*, HAS to realise that we have reached a point where we can't keep finding out what the smaller compositional elements of matter are. In other worlds, science is not about cold hard facts, and has an element of belief to it.

We cant explain a lot of things. We can't decide whether light is a partical or a ray.

No one should discredit anything with some evidence, anecdotal or not.

Sceptical, yes. Disbelieving to the point of sarcasm, no.

Light is a wave of electromagnetic radiation.

And we're not talking about experimental physics here, where logic is used to determine what things could possibly be using maths and reasoning.

We're talking about a small group of people making subjective claims that cannot be measured, and, when looked at in light of the sheer number of people who have had transplants and not experienced things, are most likely to just be the kind of person who will believe that having a transplant would some how transplant someone elses traits into them.
Last edited by rizo299 at Apr 12, 2008,
#18
Ok, so logic isn't a valid argument in this thread... so I'll use my gut on this one:

No. You cannot recieve some one elses soul by transplanting a body part.
#19
Quote by rizo299
That's a logical fallacy.

Whether I exist or no has no bearing on the argument. Simply bringing up something else that cannot be proved or disproved doesn't make my argument any less valid.


Whether or not you exist has everything to do with this argument.
And you saying that it can't be proven or disproven is exactly my point, you don't know if you know that you know and your O LOL AWSUM SIENSE only goes so far when it comes to what we actually know.
Whether this is logical or not makes no real difference, because I can respond in this manner until the end of time and I'm still right whether I am or not.

My real point in going through all this trouble is that nothing can be proven, even if it's something preposterous as a human having a soul or part of that soul being transfered through a transplant.

Or maybe I'm just too high to realize it.
We've drained full confession booths, polluted drinking wells with our repentances, and then stood grinning with our arms around the shoulder of a rotting child.



If you resist change, you will be here forever.
#20
Quote by rizo299
It's a collection of sentimental, anecdotal evidence that doesn't hold up to scientific scrutiny.

It's also probably shenanigans.


Funny, it's the same with how the universe came to be, and black holes, and the vacuum of space, but we all accept these as fact.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
#21
Quote by NorfIrIon
Well, before I do that, prove you exist.

I think, therefore I am.
Next question.
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#22
Quote by NorfIrIon
Whether or not you exist has everything to do with this argument.
And you saying that it can't be proven or disproven is exactly my point, you don't know if you know that you know and your O LOL AWSUM SIENSE only goes so far when it comes to what we actually know.
Whether this is logical or not makes no real difference, because I can respond in this manner until the end of time and I'm still right whether I am or not.

My real point in going through all this trouble is that nothing can be proven, even if it's something preposterous as a human having a soul or part of that soul being transfered through a transplant.

Or maybe I'm just too high to realize it.

What?


Even if I don't exist, it doesn't matter. Because, in what ever way this is happening, it's happening in some way or form reagardless of my existance. And in this way or form there's no objective evidence of souls.
#23
Quote by Ichimaru
I think, therefore I am.
Next question.


Thank you.
#24
Quote by Ichimaru
I think, therefore I am.
Next question.


Fine, prove your thoughts exist.

I could go at this all day.

Quote by rizo299
What?


Even if I don't exist, it doesn't matter. Because, in what ever way this is happening, it's happening in some way or form reagardless of my existance. And in this way or form there's no objective evidence of souls.


Well, I could say that there was no proof of you.
Sure, you're posting on this forum and whatnot, but I could say that there was plenty of similar evidence that souls exist and that by transferring parts of your body to others you are in turn transferring your soul, but so what? You'll deny it anyway, won't you? And because of that, I'm going to deny your existence. What now?
We've drained full confession booths, polluted drinking wells with our repentances, and then stood grinning with our arms around the shoulder of a rotting child.



If you resist change, you will be here forever.
Last edited by NorfIrIon at Apr 12, 2008,
#25
Quote by NorfIrIon
Fine, prove your thoughts exist.

I could go at this all day.

You can go on all day, but it doesn't make a shred of difference.

Quote by dann_blood
Funny, it's the same with how the universe came to be, and black holes, and the vacuum of space, but we all accept these as fact.

Actually that's based on logical reasoning and hard mathematical evidence.
#26
Quote by rizo299
Light is a wave of electromagnetic radiation.

And we're not talking about experimental physics here, where logic is used to determine what things could possibly be using maths and reasoning.

We're talking about a small group of people making subjective claims that cannot be measured, and, when looked at in light of the sheer number of people who have had transplants and not experienced things, are most likely to just be the kind of person who will believe that having a transplant would some how transplant someone elses traits into them.


Light is commonly accepted as a wavical (or so I believe), as it conforms to both criteria depending on how it's examined.

Either way. I was just trying to point out that we have absolutely no idea about most things. A soul cannot be isolated and examined. We have no understanding of so much to do with our higher reasoning, I'm not going to assume that transferring a soul is impossible...
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#27
Quote by punkforlife93
Just quit arguing, no ones opinion is going to change. Cereal, this is the freaking Pit.

Darn right.

I think some of us have been reading Descartes and Hume a little too much, huh?
Of course there is no real proof whether souls or rizo299 really exist. All we have is our rather limited experience, so we can only deem things 'true' that are comparable to what we have experienced yet.

So far, I have never seen any proof of a soul, so from my point of view (the scientific point of view in this case) the stuff the ts linked is at least improbable, not to say utter shenanigans.

Oh and light can be radiation and partical at the same time, same goes for any other given partical. I can even view YOU as radiation if I want. I can even estimate your wavelength.
#28
Quote by Fleabag
Light is commonly accepted as a wavical (or so I believe), as it conforms to both criteria depending on how it's examined.

Either way. I was just trying to point out that we have absolutely no idea about most things. A soul cannot be isolated and examined. We have no understanding of so much to do with our higher reasoning, I'm not going to assume that transferring a soul is impossible...

Well the difference is, we know light exists. We can measure it, whether it be a particle or a ray.

But theres is no evidence at all that a soul exists. You can say that there's anecdotal evidence, but anecdotal evidence means nothing.

Quote by NorfIrIon


Well, I could say that there was no proof of you.
Sure, you're posting on this forum and whatnot, but I could say that there was plenty of similar evidence that souls exist and that by transferring parts of your body to others you are in turn transferring your soul, but so what? You'll deny it anyway, won't you? And because of that, I'm going to deny your existence. What now?

Like I've said, logical fallacy.

Whether I exist or not has nothing to do with anything. Simply becasue I can't prove I exist doesn't mean that souls automatically do exist.
Last edited by rizo299 at Apr 12, 2008,
#29
Quote by Ichimaru
I think, therefore I am.
Next question.

In all fairness, this proves that you exist only to you, but Norflrlon still can't be sure. Just wait for him to accept the logical flaws in scepticism and he'll go back to normal.
#30
Quote by rizo299
Well the difference is, we know light exists. We can measure it, whether it be a particle or a ray.

But theres is no evidence at all that a soul exists. You can say that there's anecdotal evidence, but anecdotal evidence means nothing.

This is true in some respects.

I don't even disagree with you. I'm very indifferent to everything really. I've reached a state where I believe there is a lot more to the universe than we know, but I don't know what it is. So I'm not as sceptical as I was, but I also don't believe much that I'm told by scientists and the like.

I just like being the devils advocate.

Now 100% humour free, in accordance with the rules.

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#31
Quote by rizo299
Actually that's based on logical reasoning and hard mathematical evidence.


Oh please We take numbers and make them work, then assume it's right. You know what, there is no hard mathematical evidence that tells us how life began. Or is the thought of nothing exploding, creating all life more substantiated
Just because science can't prove everything doesn't mean it can't exist.
Next thing on the agenda, grow the fuck up. If you believe something, don't shove it down everybody's throats and be a smart-ass to everybody who disagrees.
Quote by Vornik
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to put it, along with your other advice, into a book, the pages of which I will then use to wipe my ass.
#32
Quote by NorfIrIon
Well, before I do that, prove you exist.

Join the philsopher group. See my profile.
#33
Quote by NorfIrIon
Why would I take the time to do something like that when I could blindly follow a philosophy that allows me to quickly dismiss everything as a lie and thus make me "right"?
It works out so much more easily.


Heya dufus

I know what you mean. Why? Because I know i exist, our consciousness is the only thing that we really know exists, in which case even if everything in reality is not physically there, it exists in our minds which we know exists because we process unique thought.
In Which case stop bull****ing *oh prove everything exists* because it exists in your mind and therefore is enough to satisfy you.


Now, prove the soul exists, I proved everything in the world exists (as it does in your mind which you know exists) so prove the soul exists (which is also in your mind and so follows the same principle).


But note, a book in this existance in your mind can logically be proved to exist in your mind world, so, prove that in your mind world this soul exists. YOU CANT.

You fail, Im right, you are wrong, give everyone here their time back.
#35
Quote by TheQuailman
In all fairness, this proves that you exist only to you, but Norflrlon still can't be sure. Just wait for him to accept the logical flaws in scepticism and he'll go back to normal.



No, no, Sir Quail, I thought through the flaws long ago, and after participating in this thread so far, I have come to a real conclusion and a real message in what was originally intended just to be trolling.
And it is that my denying Rizo's existence does me just as much good as him denying a soul's existence or all the rest of that jazz.
If you don't have an open mind, and are completely unwilling to even compromise, you're not going to get anywhere.
Just because you can't prove something with your fancy mathematics and science today doesn't mean the existence is not there, or that you won't be able to prove it soon enough. Things are changing and if you resist change, you will be here forever.
I'd add more to try and make more sense, but I haven't slept in a while, so I'll leave it at that, hopefully your fancy maths can dissect the message without all the necessary evidence.


Quote by Tartan_nick
You fail, Im right, you are wrong, give everyone here their time back.



Also, rofl, f*ck you.
I really haven't laughed so hard in a while.
We've drained full confession booths, polluted drinking wells with our repentances, and then stood grinning with our arms around the shoulder of a rotting child.



If you resist change, you will be here forever.
Last edited by NorfIrIon at Apr 12, 2008,
#36
Even if you believed in the concept of a soul, it would have to be metaphysical, which means there's no way in hell you could transplant one.
I play by my own rules. And I have one rule; There are no rules... but if there are, they're there to be broken. Even this one.


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#37
Quote by TheQuailman
In all fairness, this proves that you exist only to you, but Norflrlon still can't be sure. Just wait for him to accept the logical flaws in scepticism and he'll go back to normal.


You are definitely my favourite 08'er. (So far, anyway.) I mean, you've actually got a fully functional brain.

I play by my own rules. And I have one rule; There are no rules... but if there are, they're there to be broken. Even this one.


Confused? Good.

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#38
Quote by dann_blood
If you believe something, don't shove it down everybody's throats and be a smart-ass to everybody who disagrees.


So how's what you're doing different?
#39
Quote by dann_blood
Oh please We take numbers and make them work, then assume it's right. You know what, there is no hard mathematical evidence that tells us how life began. Or is the thought of nothing exploding, creating all life more substantiated
Just because science can't prove everything doesn't mean it can't exist.
Next thing on the agenda, grow the fuck up. If you believe something, don't shove it down everybody's throats and be a smart-ass to everybody who disagrees.

Now this is Ad Hominem

Arguing against me and not my argument. I'd rather you not tell me to grow the **** up when all I did was reply to you. I didn't stick anything down your throat, I simply answered your statement.

And I'd like to point out that you can't "just make numbers work", and science never assumes anything is right. Science works on the principal of constant questioning, nothing is sacred. We question everything all the time. Hence there being multiple theories about the same thing. What ever is most likely, given evidence and reasoning, is what is considered correct at that time.

Quote by NorfIrIon
No, no, Sir Quail, I thought through the flaws long ago, and after participating in this thread so far, I have come to a real conclusion and a real message in what was originally intended just to be trolling.
And it is that my denying Rizo's existence does me just as much good as him denying a soul's existence or all the rest of that jazz.
If you don't have an open mind, and are completely unwilling to even compromise, you're not going to get anywhere.
Just because you can't prove something with your fancy mathematics and science today doesn't mean the existence is not there, or that you won't be able to prove it soon enough. Things are changing and if you resist change, you will be here forever.
I'd add more to try and make more sense, but I haven't slept in a while, so I'll leave it at that, hopefully your fancy maths can dissect the message without all the necessary evidence.

*facepalm*

While this may just be be me taking the bait, I'd like to point out that I've never said that there may never be evidence for it. But logically we must always accept the negative to be true untill the possitive is shown to be more likely.

Hence, untill someone comes up with a soul-o-metre, there is no such thing as a soul.
Last edited by rizo299 at Apr 12, 2008,
#40
This argument will never end because rizo is working from a scientific standpoint and dann_blood is working from a philosophical perspective.
I play by my own rules. And I have one rule; There are no rules... but if there are, they're there to be broken. Even this one.


Confused? Good.

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