11th Song.

First things first: If you don't like a lot of acoustic or long songs, then this probably won't be to your liking, as it's a bit over 11 minutes long (!) and the first 4:45 is pure acoustic/violin/bass/drums.

This is really a song in two parts, acoustic and distortion, and I feel it's my strongest work in both to date. For the distortion parts I've tried something different, with harmonizing guitars blazing (although not in straight thirds like most melodeath) throughout to pretty much the end.

The song follows a story about a past, failed relationship. As there is no lyrics, I've separated the sections into themes, so if you care about that aspect of songwriting, you're gonna just have to use your imagination.

Enjoy, I hope.
Nice. Bits of it kind of reminded me of my own work, without bearing any too obvious musical similarities.

Acoustic intro is good but just a little boring until the second guitar comes in...then, well, wow. There are some really beautiful bits in here. The violin is used perfectly to add bits to the music without becoming the focal point. I wish I could write more acoustic bits like this, as I usually end up just playing arpeggios of bar chords
I like the transition to the distorted part, but I have to say that the two bits of the song don't really seem to fit together all that great. Well, it works, but it doesn't really sound like they were "made to go together", if you see what I mean.

There were a few distorted riffs which were a little dull, to be honest, but for each boring bit there was another part that sounded great. Just the right application of lead and harmony, and I really liked the interlude where it goes back to the acoustic for a bit. Unfortunately, it all seemed kind of lacking in direction...some lyrics and recurring verses / choruses etc. would probably sort this out nicely.

I really liked the idea with the emotions and feelings and so on as titles for the themes - it worked particularly well for the acoustic bits. It would have been nice if you'd re-used some of the themes and (later in the song) riffs a bit more often, rather than always going for a new one. I'm kind of guilty of doing that myself, but I've come to realise that although progression is good, re-using a riff in the right place can do wonders for the song.

Overall, a very good song, although it might work better as two separate pieces. I suppose the beauty of such things is that they work both separately and together. I like it
Many thanks! I understand what you mean about progressing, this is actually the first song where I have never resolved back to an earlier riff. Not really sure why, either, now that I think about it. And with lyrics it might make the progression seem a bit more clear.

And I was undecided as to whether to make it two songs or one, but eventually I settled with one due to the lyrical concept that has yet to be written.
I look forward to reading said lyrical concept. I really do love the way you've given every riff / theme a different name, and I think it would be great if you could somehow implement that into the lyrics...not sure how, though.
Woah dude. That was easily one of the best pieces I've ever hear on here. The whole acoustic section was amazing. Some of the distortion parts were a little repetitive though. But some of them were amazing. Dwelling in the past = Holy Crap.
Hour of Darkness = Holy ****. Those were my two favorite parts of the song. And the harmonized solo at 191 was pretty cool too.


I don't really have anything for you to crit.... I gess you can crit "acoustic song" in my sig. The beggiing of your song kind of reminded me of it.
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First off, I love the intro. The drums seem to match the mood perfectly. I mostly like the lead, it works perfectly over the rhythm acoustic, you have done that very well with good melody. Regrets is one of my favourite sections, mainly because it provides a very nice, alternative melody for the piece so well done with that. I dislike longing, however, I think that you should replace the chords with more fingerpicking, or at least add something else. The violins work well when they come in.

Contemplation is quite average. It doesn't sound bad, but doesn't really stand out either. Relapse is okay, but I think you should either change or elaborate the melody or add some more layers. Dwelling in the past also has a nice riff, but once again I think you should add more layers, some strings or something, I strongly believe it would make it sound much better.

The first solo is okay, but not amazing, it lacks anything that would make it stand out, so at first I though it was just another melody. I very much like what follows. Final Straw isn't too amazing, more of a means of moving into Hours of Darkness, which I liked a lot. The Second solo was also pretty good, I'd be interested to see what it sounds like recorded. Awakening is similar to all your other sections - it has a good base riff, but once again lacks something to elaborate the melody.

Acceptance is awesome, probably my favourite section you should make it longer =]

Hmm I hope I haven't come across as too harsh, don't get me wrong I really liked it, but I think there's a lot more you could add to each riff to make it sound that little bit better.

Crit mine?

Nice song, but it felt too "constructed" for me. The riffs were ok, but nothing really stand out. And there were too many riffs for me. I don´t understand why you put that many riffs in there.

But overall, good song 8/10
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Nice song, but it felt too "constructed" for me. The riffs were ok, but nothing really stand out. And there were too many riffs for me. I don´t understand why you put that many riffs in there.

But overall, good song 8/10

Constructed? If anything, it's my most progressive song to date, and it's why there's so many riffs as well; each one is a reflection of a mood portrayed by the as-of-yet unfinished lyrics.

I'm not disgruntled, just curious.
I thought the song overall was rather good.

But I feel that here and there, you repeated some riffs too many times and this repitition was exacerbated by the similarity between the riffs, especially in the distorted section.
I also feel that all of the parts in the clean section were good, but instead of repeating every section exactly the same, you should change them the second time they repeat.
The solo's did not really do anything for me, until the final one that closed the song.
I also feel that there was heaps of potential for a third possible part in the song because in the change between contemplation and relapse was the possibly one of the coolest parts of the song. I feel if you extrapolated that feel, while taking out a bit of the repetition in the other parts of the song, it could be amazing.
Edit - The sound of bar 113, was awesome, extrapolate that feel.
Overall it was good
Wow, the acoustic stuff was just sexy haha. Sleep led perfectly up to dreams. t was very good, and the part at bar 19 is just awesome. It's been quite a while since I've heard some good acoustic stuff on here haha. Acoustic lead at bar 27 was awesome, but sounded a little too high imo. The violin fits perfectly when it comes in and the drums and bass are kickass as well.

Memories was awesome too. The acoustic stuff was just great. Regrets wasgood also, it had a good atmosphere going at that point, and it felt really tranquil and peaceful. Longing was good too but I thought there was a little too much goin on at bar 80, with the violin playing in harmony and the acoustic lead going too. The melodies are all great, I just think there's too much going on at once.

I didn't really care for the first 5 or so bars of contemplation, but it led up to the other part well, so I guess it's ok. Acoustic solo-ish thing at bar 105 was awesome though. Transfer to relapse was good also.

Relapse was good too, kinda opeth-esque, but I didn't like how the drums slowed down at bar 116, but the part at bar 118 was just sexy haha.

Dwelling in the past was ****in awesome man. At first when I saw the riff, I was like "oh great, this is gonna sound really generic and boring", but hell no! I especially liked how you harmonized in such an unconventional way, that was pretty kickass. You used 7/8 time pretty well there.I would have liked to hear some faster drums at bar 128, like some blastbeats, though.

first solo was awesome. The licks were phrased well and creative, not just stupid scale runs. I would've liked to maybe hear some harmonies thrown in there though, but it sounds great as it is.

Bass interlude thing was sweet and so was desperation. Once again I really liked how you used thesecond guitar to harmonize in such an unconventional way.

The final straw was kinda meh, but it transferred to the next part good so it's fine I guess. Hours of darkness=holy crap! That acoustic part is just awesooome! lol.

Second solo was friggin amazing as well. and the harmonized part= Awakening was ok, just not quite up to par with the rest of the song imo. the melodies seemed kinda just thrown together imo.

Acceptance was awesome too, and the jazz solo was pretty sweet. the perfect way to end an amazing song.

Overall, this is quite an impressive piece of music man. T&C really needs more musicians like you.I really enjoyed this song a lot from beginning to end, except for a few mediocre parts.Amazing acoustic work as well. Please keep it up
Critting as I listen.

Sleep is really relaxing, really, really nice acoustic work. And the basswork is another plus. Not too much showing off, but more than just root notes, which is cool.

Dreams and Memories follow suit with this. And the acoustic leads in these parts are really awesome as well. I'm not very fond of violin in GP, but it works here. The only complaint I have is the drums. They're a little too... forceful. Try some more mellow patterns, maybe less double bass and fast snare work...

Regrets is really sick too. The drums work here with the darker acoustic work quite well. I like the change to 6/8 as well. Longing is perfect as well. The chords are excellent, and its a nice simple strum pattern.

Contemplation is really catchy, kinda upbeat sounding, and the lead is great, yet again. The drums work well again.

The change to heavy at Relapse flows really well. I just think you kind of have a tendency to repeat things too much.

Dwelling in the Past is excellent though. I love the harmonies; they're much better than the usual melodic death harmonies. The first solo is absolute awesomeness as well.

Desperation was cool too. I like how the guitars are playing basically two different riffs, but it still harmonizes. The melody is pretty nice as well.

The Final Straw reminds me of your older black metal stuff. Makes me think almost of Dissection. Nice stuff. Hours of Darkness flows in perfectly. Again, fantastic acoustic work. The heavy part comes back perfectly. The second solo was great, but it was too hard to hear; it got drowned out by the rhythms. The harmony was fantastic though.

Awakening is good, but I dont think you should repeat it. The faster part is a lot better. And when the lead comes in, its good slowed down. The acoustic in acceptance are again, fantastic. The mellow solo is a perfect way to end it.

Impressive song, again. I think the main problem was the drums were a little to aggressive in some of the slow parts, and you repeated things too much in some parts. The flow of the song is great though, and the riffs and acoustics, and solos are all great.
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Last edited by Burning_Angel at Apr 25, 2008,
The intro is great, man! Holy ****, you weren't kidding when you said Orchid/Morningrise influenced this song. It is pretty inspiring, the intro is epic in the power sense, yet at the same time it reminds me of folk metal. I didn't like the inclusion of drums, you should've kept it entirely strings in the beginning (imo).

The little fill into the harmonized riff was cool. The riff there is pretty cool, I like the sudden tremolo picking, it reminds of my "what the hell?" moments on Orchid (good thing). The riff that comes up a bit after that with the falling triads harmonized with simple lines is nothing short of genius. Then the solo that comes up...

Awesome. I like the use of notes, very melodic and well taken into account. The bass riff that comes up and builds into the next riff is cool, but you should've had a more of a "Volume Swell" kinda thing.

The next riff, the slightly higher one, is alright, I think you should've left it out, but it was pretty good filler. The sudden inclusion of acoustics into distortion was nice, then the little acoustic lick was very beautiful. The "solo" over it was meh, but what the hell. The riff coming up after the acoustics with the solo is probably my favorite in the whole song, so far. The harmonized solo is also, quite remarkable, not in terms of technical skill, but the great harmonization.

All, in all the song is a fat, blatant 9/10.

Note, I was listening to the MIDI and I was crit-ing it while I was listening, for more accuracy in the crit.
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Critting as I listen.

Sleep is good, it served as the perfect build-up for Dreams, and an overall great way of starting the song. It's also really soothing and relaxing in itself. The drums were kinda too loud there, though. 'Cept for drums, wouldn't change anything there.

Dreams is also great. The sped up there is perfect. Starting from ms 27 it kinda had a folk touch there, which is excellent. I wouldn't change anything there, seeing as there's nothing wrong with it.

Memories to me was like a recycled version of Dreams, only I liked Dreams better, but it's also good, albeit a bit too long for me.

It flowed nicely from Memories to Regrets, and the acoustic part in Regrets is excellent. It's really calming.

At Longing, it felt more aggressive there. Cool, although imo it's too repetitive, but the transition to contemplation made up for it. The transition is really great.

Contemplation gave the song a breather, but at that point it already felt a bit too long, but looking at it as an individual part, there was nothing wrong with it.

It started to get better at Relapse. It really gave the song a much need breeze of fresh air. The tremolo in the transition to Dwelling In the Past is great.

Dwelling In the Past is a really awesome part. It had a different and cool rhythm going on there. It also built up the tension for the solo.

The first solo is amazing. Simply amazing. I loved how the lead guitar comes in, although imo it is a bit too short, and it ends a bit abruptly. The bass did not make a good closing for the solo .

Desperation is great as a post-solo thingy, and the lead at ms 155 is really cool, and set up the overall atmosphere for the next part.

There was nothing wrong with The Final Straw, but also nothing astounding. It just felt like a recycled Desperation. I would change the lead and/or rhythm there.

Loved Hours of Darkness. It's simply perfect, and is a well-needed interlude. It also a great build-up for the solo.

The second solo imo is not as good as the first. Although it's longer and everything, it's not really amazing or mind-blowing, but hey, at least there's a solo there . But I would modify and improve that.

Awakening was kinda weak. It just continued the riff from the solo, which without the presence of lead there is not that good.

Acceptance is good and bad at the same time for a whole different reason. It is good in that it is a calming part, perfectly placed after the aggressive wake of the solo. I loved the acoustic and jazz guitar there. However, seeing as this part is also the ending, it is not really good. As a stand-alone part, it is awesome, but it didn't do all that well as an ending. This part plays one of the most crucial part of a song, as people mostly paid most attention on the intro, middle part (breakdown, solo, etc), and outro. This part did not served as a good ending, and did not do the song justice.

Overall, this is a great song, although there is still so much you could improve here. The song is imo a bit too long and repetitive, as some parts sounded like recycled parts. If I were to edit that song, I would change the x4 repetition into maybe x2 because at those parts it felt a bit too long. Your riffs also sounded a bit similar, and sometimes it's hard to differentiate between them. However, I think if you put vocals in there, it would *slightly* fix that problem. It was also lacking an epic ending, as right now, the ending is a bit meh.

Looking from a progressive point of view, I also felt that this song is a bit lacking. It only progressed between heavy parts and slower parts. There was not really a mood and tone progression there, although there were many rooms for it. This song is not quite a powerful emotional journey, and on some parts the emotion are kinda buried.

There was nothing wrong with the song, but some parts were just average and not exceptional, and I believe is not the best of your ability. Some parts were *really* outstanding (especially Dreams and Hours of Darkness), but others were just... idk.... bland. This song imo could still be improved.

Sorry if my post offended you in anyway. I liked the song, but it's just that some parts were really craving for improvement. I would give this song a 8.75/10, as it still left many spaces for betterment.

Crit mine? https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=842733
the change at 13 sounded awesome, that riff had a great feel to it. the riff memories is genious althoug hid say its tough enough to play. the riff at regrets was nice change to a darker feel to it. i was starting to lose interest with longing but contemplation was a nice change in tempo.

didnt much like relapse but the following riff was awesome when you had the dueling harmonies. the solo was awesome, especially when you carried a melody from one of the acoustic riffs at the start of it. hours of darkness again was awesome. you are definitely good with acoustic riffage.
Sleep sounded good, maybe except with the drums, which don't match the guitar part as much as it could...
I liked the time signature changes afterwards, and the bass is pretty good too.
At 35, the violin was great, and the whole part was great, except with drums maybe, which overpowered the part in a way.

I liked Memories a lot, from the acoustic part, and the violin one.
I would suggest to add some variations to the repeated parts, with alternate endings etc, which alter the melody and would smooth the transition a little more...
In the acoustic part, the rythm guitar was pretty good, along with the violin. I think maybe the main acoustic guitar would need some touches and melody changes...
Maybe also smooth the transition at 113 a little more too, but till there, the piece is very good...
I am not a big fan of the distorted guitars afterwards, they don't seem to stand out, or have a melody standing out, etc...
I liked 128, and I liked the time signature again (although you change the time signature too much).
The solo was awesome, with the exception of maybe some the rhythm of the melody in some parts of it...

I didn't like some of the riffs played afterwards, like they don't bring anything new to the piece....
Hours of Darkness however was great. The second solo wasn't as good as the first one, although it did have some pretty good harmonies...
Awakening wasn't that special IMO, just as I said before, because of the riffs...
Acceptance had a nice acoustic rhythm section, but wasn't as good as the others...
I liked the guitar at the end, even though it could have a more catchy melody perhaps, try to make it a great ending...

Solid piece, 8.5/10 I liked it (pretty long in my opinion, but anyways I skipped some riffs after listening them for the first time)...

Thanks for the crit in my song

I envy your creativity. This was great. Every aspect of it I love. I don't know enough to actually tell what you can improve on because that was insane. Record it ASAP. That's all I have to say.


Thanks for your crit btw.
it's a good song..
great intro, great soli and riffing
but i would not put it on 'repeat one'
it's kind of too long and repetitive although there's nothing much that's repeating.
and there' nothing that could be death in the song.. x:


crit mine?
veiled in oblivion(in sig.. if you want to know what pure ****ing death is.. US Death Metal :] also in sig)
The acoustic bits were nice. I liked em alot, however the drums need work. They really took away from the song. I found the violin to be a good addition to the song. I like your use of time signature changes, you used them very effectively. Some parts sound a bit clustered, with too much going on at the same time. The distortion riffs were pretty good, but I never was a fan of 7/8 timing. The solo was just right, suited the song well. Not much to say about the rest of the song, pretty much same mistakes...I really liked the clean solo though, great job with that.

Overall, really good job!
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This is seriously impressive, man. Overall, it's really quite powerful, and doesn't repeat itself despite the length (or not noticeably). I generally have a policy that it takes some pretty exceptional songwriting to pull off 10+ minute songs in this kind of context, but I feel the splitting up into thematic sections is a real bonus; it means I can focus on different things while I listen. The riffs are top-notch, though I get the feeling that the song's more about... well, feeling than riffs, if that makes sense?

I suppose all it's lacking is vocals really, just to spice it up. As good as you've written it, it does occasionally get a little monotonous, and I think some kind of a mixture of cleans and growls would just add that extra dimension to it, put the final glint on the song.

Sorry if I didn't crit individual sections too much, I preferred to concentrate on an overall impression (I'd be here all night otherwise as there's a hell of a lot to say). You ever thought about incorporating some keyboards, for a little variety? A couple of piano breaks instead of acoustic breaks once in a while I think would bring a little more into it. That said, you've managed to do a hell of a lot with a bass, couple of guitars, drums and the occasional violin, and for that,
Criticizing as I listen:

This part is to short in my opinion. You need more time to develop that specific theme. The acoustic melody at bars 9-10 were very good, if only you'd repeated them a few more times.

Wow, this has to be some of the best acoustic work I've heard in a very long time. I loved bars 19-26. And the acoustic lead works perfectly with the acoustic although I think you could turn the lead up slightly or turn the rhythm down a tad to let the lead melody shine through a bit. The violin works wonders with the lead, very good.

Yet again, the acoustic work in Memories is absolutely brilliant. The violin flows very well with the acoustic. Nothing wrong with this part at all.

You have a very good mix of lead/rhythm acoustics in this song. I love it. The melodies are so simple yet effective. Only a true musician can take something as simple as a melody and turn it into something great. Well done.

Wow, the violin melodies really cut through here and they sound amazing.

I don't know what to say apart from I think the transition from Contemplation into Relapse didn't flow with the rest of the song.

Ah, what I like. Melodic guitars Relapse works very well as a build up to Dwelling in the past, I don't know if that's what you aimed for though.

Dwelling in the past
Very nice melodic guitars here.How did you get those harmonies dead on?!

First solo sounds very John Petrucci Nothing wrong with it.
The bass interlude also sounds very Dream Theater-esque.

This part sounds kinda boring to me, too repetitive in my opinion. I think you should put a lead in here to ease the repetitiveness

Final Straw
Very nice, flows very well into Hours of Darkness.I specially liked bar 163 onwards.

Hours of Darkness
Nothing to say really, loved the acoustics.

Second solo I think would sound better harmonised all the way through, but I loved 191 to199. Nice job there.

Nice way to let the rhythm players have some fun . Good job with the rhythm parts here.

The final part of the song. Wow, what a way to end it.The acoustics as always were amazing as was the outro solo.

Sorry for long crit there

All in all, very very good job. Sounds like you put a lot of effort, feeling and emotion into this piece of music and it shows. 10/10.

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Thanks for the crit, and sorry it took me so long to get back. Things came up. So, on to the song.

Wow. That was beatuiful. Even the distortion parts had a certain quality to them that carried the kind of melancholy feel you set up in the intro. I alos love how you don;t repeat riffs and chord progressions, so the song is one flowing story rather than a collection of riffs and melodies. Some of the drums felt a little strange in the beginning acoustic passages. They seemed to be halfway between carrying an steady beat and just being ambient filler stuff, and it kind of interrupted what was going on, particularly during the "dreams" section. Also, the first solo seemed to lack organization a bit. It seemed to be more just a bunch of in key notes rather than anything particulary melodic or memorable, but it was okay nonetheless. The second solo and the clean solo at the end more than made up for it, however.

Very nice piece. There are very few things about it would change, and overall its a brilliant piece of music. Keep up the good work, and get this puppy recorded.
one word man one word!DAMN
i wanna hear that in my playlist in Winamp.The drums were absolutely brilliant.Are you a drummer?I liked every little bit of it. The part i liked a lot is where (i think where the 1st solo ends) the distort guitar goes away, bass keep playing and than boom again.Super.20/10.
But remember, i want a copy of that as soon as you record it
very nice! (well its your 11th song, it damn well better be )
i really like the layering in the intro (all that Agalloch listening seems to have payed off)
i didn't find it repetitive like some of the previous posters (probably because i love Agalloch so much too)
i really like that riffs from about 610-640 and the acoustic outro was a pleasant surprise, and a very fitting end (kinda reminded me of Burden)
Very Nice! I especially like your use of violin wich fit perfectly where it was placed and the ending solo. If any thing I felt it going a few bars longer. I did feel like the acousitc sections go a bit repettitive even though they changed quite often. I would throw in some weird notes here and there to make the listener wonder what happened and then bring the mood back to where it was. The ending I felt was kind of lackluster but like I said before extending that final solo might help that. Thats really all I can think of.

Sorry for the awful crit but its hard when you write such a good song.

Crit mine? https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=914350
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Well I must say it was quite a nice surprise -though ironically, it was Relapse that actually got me, the acoustic sections to me sounded professional but failed to do anything for me I liked the structure [classical guitar kinda]-

The song reminds me strong of NeO as well

I could see Opeth comparissons as well mostly cause of the acoustics -which usually have that same "no effect" on me... somehow I dont see them as effective or memorable-

The distortion work though was amazing I love the style of harmonization you used, reminds me alot of what At the Gates was doing in With Fear I Kiss The Burning Darkness, just less complex and with a completely different atmosphere

Personally the solos werent too effective either, and at parts I thought the song lacked some vitality -desperation mostly due to the title haha- though its all forgivable with that superb harmonization and unorthodox riff structures which I LOVE lol then it goes back to acoustics and pretty much loses me...

Nonetheless I fricken loved your harmonization with the distorted guitars interesting structures as well -check out the gp tab for The Break of Autumn by At the Gates I think you could like it-

Lastly... I guess I didnt get too much sorrow maybe mild melancholy at best... I guess... still... loved... distorted riffs........................ =p

soon I'll upload a new track if you would please crit that one when its upload... thanks
Dude, this is freaking awesome. I really want to hear this recorded.

How do you do stuff like this?
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Very very nice. There were only about 1-2 things I didn't like about it, overall the piece was amazing. The acoustics, violin, guitars, bass, drums, everything was done so well. The time signature changes were very natural and didn't seem forced, and fit perfectly.

Anyway, I found the problem with both solos is that they lacked structure and weren't memorable at all. I found they went into 16th notes way too early. I think if you started the solo with some slower, melodic more memorable parts, and then build up to faster speedier stuff, they will be much more effective.

Anyway, not much else to say. I loved everything.

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Absolutely fantastic. A well constructed progressive song! I can understand the different sections as well.

Well done!
for an 11 min song, definitely didn't feel like one! really good job dude nothing i would change in there at all. i would have loved some more violin but im glad you didn't have any more! really great job!!! im becoming a fanboy of your work! reallly good!
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