#1
I just plugged in my cheap old ibanez into my 5150 for the first time and was amazed by the tone!
Let me explain, I never even bothered trying it out before because i knew the pickups were crappy low output stock ibanez pickups and when I first tried, as i expected it sounded like crap.

But this time I tried with my maxon OD-808 and wooow. It had a crisp high gain distortion sound! Much cleaner then my other guitar with a duncan JB.

Does anybody else use low-output pickups for metal and have the same results?
Gear:
ESP LTD MH-1000 w/ EMGs
Ibanez S470DX w/ Duncan JB & 59'
Schecter C-1+
Peavey 5150 Combo
ISP Decimator
Maxon OD-808
MXR 10 band eq

WTB:
-Delay Pedal, 2 Veteran 30 Speakers, Duncan Blackouts set, Reverb Pedal
#2
High-ouutput Pups get horrible and muddy too fast for me, Evos are good if you want a very clear metal tone
#4
Quote by guitarded88
I just plugged in my cheap old ibanez into my 5150 for the first time and was amazed by the tone!
Let me explain, I never even bothered trying it out before because i knew the pickups were crappy low output stock ibanez pickups and when I first tried, as i expected it sounded like crap.

But this time I tried with my maxon OD-808 and wooow. It had a crisp high gain distortion sound! Much cleaner then my other guitar with a duncan JB.

Does anybody else use low-output pickups for metal and have the same results?

Lamb of God.

More output tends to mean a busier, more compressed tone and if you've got an amp with oodles of gain it's not really necessary. Lower output pickups through a gain monster of an amp means more clarity and more "space" in the sound, everything tends to sound bigger and more dynamic.
Actually called Mark!

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#5
I'll have to look into them. I was going to look into actives but now i'm not so sure. Would Duncan Blackouts clean up some of the muddiness?
Gear:
ESP LTD MH-1000 w/ EMGs
Ibanez S470DX w/ Duncan JB & 59'
Schecter C-1+
Peavey 5150 Combo
ISP Decimator
Maxon OD-808
MXR 10 band eq

WTB:
-Delay Pedal, 2 Veteran 30 Speakers, Duncan Blackouts set, Reverb Pedal
#6
My Tiny Terror which isn't really a metal amp sounds great for metal with an OD and kicked by an EMG81. The Duncan Designed pups in my Ibanez don't really tighten it up enough.
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#7
Quote by steven seagull
Lamb of God.

More output tends to mean a busier, more compressed tone and if you've got an amp with oodles of gain it's not really necessary. Lower output pickups through a gain monster of an amp means more clarity and more "space" in the sound, everything tends to sound bigger and more dynamic.


I just did a quick google of lamb of god and apparently they use Duncan JB's, invaders livewires etc...

Those are passive but still high output. I have JBs and I find they have a fairly compressed tone and are pretty noisy.
Gear:
ESP LTD MH-1000 w/ EMGs
Ibanez S470DX w/ Duncan JB & 59'
Schecter C-1+
Peavey 5150 Combo
ISP Decimator
Maxon OD-808
MXR 10 band eq

WTB:
-Delay Pedal, 2 Veteran 30 Speakers, Duncan Blackouts set, Reverb Pedal
#8
I used to never use anything hotter than Gibson Burstbuckers and loved every second of it. They are less muddy, even if they are less agressive. I guess the best way of describing it would be "they're easier and more intuitive to control" as they tend to be more even sounding and forgiving. Of course I eventually fell victim to whatever disease makes people want really hot pickups and bought some Bare Knuckles.
ESP LTD EC-256 and a Fender Deluxe VM
#9
Haha... I was looking at bareknuckles for a while... how did that work out for you?
Gear:
ESP LTD MH-1000 w/ EMGs
Ibanez S470DX w/ Duncan JB & 59'
Schecter C-1+
Peavey 5150 Combo
ISP Decimator
Maxon OD-808
MXR 10 band eq

WTB:
-Delay Pedal, 2 Veteran 30 Speakers, Duncan Blackouts set, Reverb Pedal
#11
Quote by guitarded88
Haha... I was looking at bareknuckles for a while... how did that work out for you?

Excellent, I'm not sure I'd be happy with anything else, it seems like so many other pickups sound "dry" compared to them (using Nailbombs presently). They work perfect for the tone I actively try to get. The only thing that sucks is they're not very forgiving (at all).
ESP LTD EC-256 and a Fender Deluxe VM
#12
Nailbombs were actually what I was looking at. Awesome.

So I did do a bit more research and came across this...

http://www.ibanez.com/forum/yaf_postst69722_MEGATRONS-PICKUP-GUIDE.aspx

Great guide about guitars and tone.

Anyways it says that a lot of players who use medium output pickups through a high gain amp.

They also mentioned that Lamb of God's Mark Morton would use invaders and high gain pickups but used a dbx 166xl compressor/limiter/gate in order to compress the signal before going into their mesa dual recs.

So it looks like I need either new pickups or something similar to this dbx 166xl. Would a regular compressor pedal do the trick?

Edit: keep in mind I'm not a fan of Lamb of God and I'm not trying to copy thier tone,
I'm just using them as an example. Also it also mentions how after using invaders they switched to Duncan '59s which are mid output.
Gear:
ESP LTD MH-1000 w/ EMGs
Ibanez S470DX w/ Duncan JB & 59'
Schecter C-1+
Peavey 5150 Combo
ISP Decimator
Maxon OD-808
MXR 10 band eq

WTB:
-Delay Pedal, 2 Veteran 30 Speakers, Duncan Blackouts set, Reverb Pedal
Last edited by guitarded88 at Apr 14, 2008,
#13
i'd say it depends on the pickup (and the amp). i'd agree that as a gross generalisation, higher output pickups tend to sound muddier and less defined, but i have a bareknuckle miracle man, and that's one of the tightest pickups i've tried (granted it's not mentally high output, but i'd still class it as "high"), much tighter under high gain than any lower output pickup i've tried.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#14
Maybe I need a bareknuckle

I wouldn't have thought that a JB would be too high output... but I do seem to be getting this overly compressed muddy tone that is described.

I found that the od-808 didn't do all to much for me either. On or off it seemed really compressed with alot of background noise.

On the other hand the od-808 with my crappy stock ibby pickups in a crappy ibby guitar, it was like night and day with the pedal engaged and disengaged. Without the pedal it sounded like pure crap but with the pedal engaged it was niceee and crisp high gain

Now i'm not sure what pickups to look into at all.

Would switching to actives clean up my tone?
Gear:
ESP LTD MH-1000 w/ EMGs
Ibanez S470DX w/ Duncan JB & 59'
Schecter C-1+
Peavey 5150 Combo
ISP Decimator
Maxon OD-808
MXR 10 band eq

WTB:
-Delay Pedal, 2 Veteran 30 Speakers, Duncan Blackouts set, Reverb Pedal
Last edited by guitarded88 at Apr 14, 2008,
#15
if anything my jb has more output than my miracle man (though i haven't messed with the heights, which would doubtless affect things). it's more compressed and has more gain.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
So can anyone recommend an alternative to the JB? Something with less output for crisper gain?
Gear:
ESP LTD MH-1000 w/ EMGs
Ibanez S470DX w/ Duncan JB & 59'
Schecter C-1+
Peavey 5150 Combo
ISP Decimator
Maxon OD-808
MXR 10 band eq

WTB:
-Delay Pedal, 2 Veteran 30 Speakers, Duncan Blackouts set, Reverb Pedal
#17
i take my points from my hero John Sykes who always uses low output pups (bar the Dirty Fingers) and is currently on re-issue PAFs and classic '57s

i use BK Mules and my high gain sounds are some of the best i could wish for!

high output pups are usually rubbish in my experience in musicality terms....
#18
Quote by guitarded88
So can anyone recommend an alternative to the JB? Something with less output for crisper gain?

The Breed is worth a look, I'm not sure if it's exactly what you're looking for but it's closer than the JB...for a relatively hot pickup it's got a pretty open tone.
Actually called Mark!

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#19
Alright, for the LOG example, they use Mark IVs, not Rectos, which imo are tighter and more defined, and loads clearer. I'm pretty sure they use the dbx compressor to gate their guitar before it goes into the amp, then use a gate before the amp hits the cabs, so I doubt using compression is what helps keep it tight. And Mark's used a couple bridge pickups, but i'm pretty sure the Invader was for As the Palaces Burn, JB for Ashes of the Wake, and 59 for Sacrament.

ANYWAYS, I also find lower output pickups tend to make amps more dynamic and sound cleaner, especially if it's a high gain head to begin with. I tend to like the JB for the way I EQ an amp (I like having a thick, mid-heavy sound, with tight and punchy lows, and crips highs that aren't harsh). For some reason, the JB works for me. However, if you're finding the JB harsh/too hot, try lowering the gain/treble? If not, I'd say look at a Duncan 59, or maybe a DiMarzio D-Sonic; it seems to be hot enough to handle the brutal chug chug, but is low enough output so it doesn't mess with cleans.
#20
Quote by RG_FANMAN
I'm pretty sure they use the dbx compressor to gate their guitar before it goes into the amp, then use a gate before the amp hits the cabs

What???
ESP LTD EC-256 and a Fender Deluxe VM
#21
/\

Yea, It's a compressor/gate, but I believe they only use the gating function. It was in a Total Guitar issue after Sacrament came out.
#22
Do you measure how hot a pickup is by it's DC resistance? Because in that case the 59's are a lot less hot than a JB.
Is it possible I buy a gate pedal that can compress the signal before it hits the pre-amp, so i don't need new pickups?

In the guide i posted earlier it said that Steve Vai used high output pickups but used a DS-1 to compress his signal before going into the amp. How can a distortion pedal compress a signal?
Gear:
ESP LTD MH-1000 w/ EMGs
Ibanez S470DX w/ Duncan JB & 59'
Schecter C-1+
Peavey 5150 Combo
ISP Decimator
Maxon OD-808
MXR 10 band eq

WTB:
-Delay Pedal, 2 Veteran 30 Speakers, Duncan Blackouts set, Reverb Pedal
#23
Quote by guitarded88
Do you measure how hot a pickup is by it's DC resistance? Because in that case the 59's are a lot less hot than a JB.
Is it possible I buy a gate pedal that can compress the signal before it hits the pre-amp, so i don't need new pickups?

In the guide i posted earlier it said that Steve Vai used high output pickups but used a DS-1 to compress his signal before going into the amp. How can a distortion pedal compress a signal?

There's not actually a way to measure the output of a pickup, because the actual output is an electric current and that varies depending on how hard your playing.

DC resistance is not a direct indicator of output, nor is there a linear correlation between the two. Yes, higher output pickups tend to have higher resistances but there's a lot more factors in play. You shouldn't really worry about the "output" of a pickup, it's not important - what is important is the sound it's going to make.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

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i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


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#24
Quote by guitarded88
Do you measure how hot a pickup is by it's DC resistance? Because in that case the 59's are a lot less hot than a JB.
Is it possible I buy a gate pedal that can compress the signal before it hits the pre-amp, so i don't need new pickups?

In the guide i posted earlier it said that Steve Vai used high output pickups but used a DS-1 to compress his signal before going into the amp. How can a distortion pedal compress a signal?


I believe on the SD website it's measured by DC resistance. The 59 is lower output, so it may be smoother than the JB.

And I believe Vai only uses the DS-1 for certain songs like "The Animal" and a few others, but it's used mainly to fatten and add more distortion to his amp.

If you really like the dynamics the lower output pickups give, try the 59 in the bridge, don't start investing in compression pedals and the like, the pickup will affect your sound more.
#25
SD list DC resistance in the specs, it't still not an indication of output. DC resistance is just one of the factors that contributes to output, but it's not "output".
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com