#1
I am auditioning for a music theory class (guitar emphasis), and I have to compose a lyrical piece, but it has to be classical. How would I go about starting the song, or start writing it. I am not to familiar with classical music.

Thanks in advance.
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#3
If you are auditioning for a music theory class, then odds are it's going to be an advanced class.

If you haven't taken any theory, then you really shouldn't be taking this class. Have you taken any theory classes before?
#4
A good way to create a classical sound is to use the V chord in a minor key, which opens up the use of the harmonic minor scale. A progression I've used and liked is Dm-Bbdim.-A-Dm, but move that around and experiment to see what you like.

Harmonic and melodic minor work well in general for classical pieces.
#5
Okay thanks :-D, thats sounds really well. I also found out that the hungarian minor scale sounds well also.

If you are auditioning for a music theory class, then odds are it's going to be an advanced class.

If you haven't taken any theory, then you really shouldn't be taking this class. Have you taken any theory classes before?


ROFLOLMAO!!!!!!! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha I have had 2 and 1/2 years of music theory. It is an advance music theory. It goes over aurals, sight reading, triads, minor, diminished and augmented chords and scales, enharmonics, chromatics, diatonics, and even intervals. But I know all those. What they are introducing that is new to me, are 7ths, 5ths, and 11ths, and composing in classical style, emphasis on romantic period. I can play many classically composed, and neo-classically composed songs (ie. paganini's 24th capriccio transfered from violin to guitar, and I can play it on piano to.) I just didn't know what a "lyrical" piece was, and how to make a lyrical piece. Because we also have to compose a technical piece that shows our playing to our best. Ive never heard of lyrical though, so thats why I asked how to go about writing one.
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#6
Quote by hendrixhaze101

ROFLOLMAO!!!!!!! Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha I have had 2 and 1/2 years of music theory. It is an advance music theory. It goes over aurals, sight reading, triads, minor, diminished and augmented chords and scales, enharmonics, chromatics, diatonics, and even intervals. But I know all those. What they are introducing that is new to me, are 7ths, 5ths, and 11ths
There's no need for that kind of **** hendrixhaze101. And if 7ths, 9ths(cause I'm assuming 5ths was a typo), and 11th chord harmonies are new...you have learned very little in your 2 and 1/2 years. People are trying to help, be respectful.
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#7
Quote by KryptNet
There's no need for that kind of **** hendrixhaze101. And if 7ths, 9ths(cause I'm assuming 5ths was a typo), and 11th chord harmonies are new...you have learned very little in your 2 and 1/2 years. People are trying to help, be respectful.


Ha no I wasn't being a smart ass or anything, I am not that kind of person, I am a very happy person . I was really laughing because if I hadn't had any music theory, I wouldn't have even qualified for this College Music Theory IV class. I guess I should have explained the course a little more. And I had about...1 1/2 years of informal lessons on music theory, from a fellow guitarist, and from here. The other 1/2, or 1 year was from my school, in which the "most advance" thing we have done so far is just major scales and diminished scales...knowing the intervals and diatonics and enharmonics of them, and writing the notes in I think the G Ionian scale, without an instrument. So it was hard, but I think I got....wait...yeah I got a 88% so not to bad. And I did mean 9ths. But I have never been taught on why certain chords have 9's 7's or 2's (sus2) or what the meaning of suspended chords were. And I don't think calling my opinions sh** is very helpful . But thanks anyways.
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#8
I think by a lyrical piece they mean a song in 4 part harmony (soprano, alto, tenor, bass) in which each voice is a note in a chord, but also has melodic contour. Unfortunately I cant give you a site with any information, since I learned it in AP music theory class (it seems to be one of the focuses of the AP exam) but the basic premise is to create a progression (you would need to know about chord cycles, like the circle progression, iii-vi-ii-V-I, etc) and then create a bass line. You would then fill in the above voices with notes in that chord, but the rules about which notes to put where and the voice ranges are quite complicated, so I suggest googling 4 part harmonies or 4 part writing.
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#9
ive started composing for classical stuff recently, and the only advice i can give is dont stay within one scale, use the notes in between, they add A LOT of color to it
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#10
Quote by hendrixhaze101
Ha no I wasn't being a smart ass or anything, I am not that kind of person, I am a very happy person . I was really laughing because if I hadn't had any music theory, I wouldn't have even qualified for this College Music Theory IV class. I guess I should have explained the course a little more. And I had about...1 1/2 years of informal lessons on music theory, from a fellow guitarist, and from here. The other 1/2, or 1 year was from my school, in which the "most advance" thing we have done so far is just major scales and diminished scales...knowing the intervals and diatonics and enharmonics of them, and writing the notes in I think the G Ionian scale, without an instrument. So it was hard, but I think I got....wait...yeah I got a 88% so not to bad. And I did mean 9ths. But I have never been taught on why certain chords have 9's 7's or 2's (sus2) or what the meaning of suspended chords were. And I don't think calling my opinions sh** is very helpful . But thanks anyways.


When you ask a question that implies that you don't know theory...the assumption will be made that you don't know any theory.

Also, if you know how to play neo classical and classical, especially anything by paganini, you should have already learned about lyrical composition. So, next time, please elaborate like you did two posts afterwards. Otherwise, it'll be assumed that a question about theory will be asked from a beginners perspective.
#11
Quote by kaleeb
When you ask a question that implies that you don't know theory...the assumption will be made that you don't know any theory.

Also, if you know how to play neo classical and classical, especially anything by paganini, you should have already learned about lyrical composition. So, next time, please elaborate like you did two posts afterwards. Otherwise, it'll be assumed that a question about theory will be asked from a beginners perspective.


I didn't ask: I don't know theory, I asked how do I make a classical song did I? I said that I didn't know how TO IMPROVISE MY OWN CLASSICAL SONG. Read what I said above carefully, I know COVERS OF CLASSICAL AND NEO CLASSICAL SONGS I just didn't know what chords, or chord progressions to start with. We have to have a very specific sound to it, in THE ROMANTIC PERIOD. Yes I should have reiterated what I knew, and what I didn't know, but we make mistakes, were all human. I know thats cliche but its the truth. And I am not a beginner as I would not be able to audition for a Music Theory IV class, not 1,2,3, but music theory 4, as in a Senior in College should be taking. I am a freshman in college. Im not trying to be arrogant I was asking a question, and I didn't state my whole situation as I wanted to keep it brief. Read next time before attacking my character. You attack the argument, not the integrity of the person to win an argument or discussion. But it can be easy to attack a person's character, as it is an easy way out. Sorry, but just something I learned in Logic and Reasoning class, Emphasis on inductive reasoning.
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Last edited by hendrixhaze101 at Apr 16, 2008,
#12
sus2= 1,2,5
sus4= 1,4,5

i assume it's called suspended because there is no defining third to the chords.


7ths:
maj7= 1,3,5,7
min7= 1,3b,5,b7
dom7= 1,3,5,b7
dim7= 1,b3,b5,bb7
half dim or min7b5= 1,b3,b5,b7
min maj 7= 1,b3,5,7

9ths:
add9= 1,3,5,9 (called add cuz you add it w/o the 7... atleast i think)
maj 9= 1,3,5,7,9
9= 1,3,5,b7,9


there's some of them. there are more. you said you didn't why they had their names so i gave you the intervals which definetly explain the names. hope that helps some.
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#13
If the suspensions are related to tonal harmony of the Baroque and Classical disciplines, then you would not see sus2's or any of those. You would analyze a suspension as a non chord tone so you wouldn't have suspended chords notated in your roman numeral analysis.

The suspension would be notes from a previous chord which would be held out into the next chord and then resolved within that chord.
The suspension is related to the bass note so for example, say you had a ii chord and a I chord in Cmaj. You would hold the D of the ii chord and then resolve it to a C in the I chord. This would make a 9-8 suspension.

This is how I learned suspension in my AP music theory class, and I would assume you would need to know this use of suspension for your class.
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#14
^correct - a suspension is is a type of nonharmonic tone, that's all.

Anyway, lyrical, in this sense, is simply the opposite of technical. They're normally slow and sustained and allow you to show your expressiveness/control.
#15
Quote by Nick_
^correct - a suspension is is a type of nonharmonic tone, that's all.
Anyway, lyrical, in this sense, is simply the opposite of technical. They're normally slow and sustained and allow you to show your expressiveness/control.

what's that mean? sorry.
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#16
Quote by hendrixhaze101
I didn't ask: I don't know theory, I asked how do I make a classical song did I? I said that I didn't know how TO IMPROVISE MY OWN CLASSICAL SONG. Read what I said above carefully, I know COVERS OF CLASSICAL AND NEO CLASSICAL SONGS I just didn't know what chords, or chord progressions to start with. We have to have a very specific sound to it, in THE ROMANTIC PERIOD. Yes I should have reiterated what I knew, and what I didn't know, but we make mistakes, were all human. I know thats cliche but its the truth. And I am not a beginner as I would not be able to audition for a Music Theory IV class, not 1,2,3, but music theory 4, as in a Senior in College should be taking. I am a freshman in college. Im not trying to be arrogant I was asking a question, and I didn't state my whole situation as I wanted to keep it brief. Read next time before attacking my character. You attack the argument, not the integrity of the person to win an argument or discussion. But it can be easy to attack a person's character, as it is an easy way out. Sorry, but just something I learned in Logic and Reasoning class, Emphasis on inductive reasoning.


No one attacked your character. I was making a broad statement, saying that when you ask a short question about theory, it helps if you explain that you do know some. Obviously if you have had any training, like you said you have, then you have theory, regardless of how little you may think it is.

You seem to have a problem with believing you are being attacked and I am sorry you felt as such, but again, it was a broad statement. I wasn't attacking your character. Loosen up bro, we're all just trying to help.


BTW, I teach a Logic and Reasoning class, and you messed up the concept a bit


Also, just to answer your question. Paganini was sort of a big influence to romantic, despite the fact that he doesn't get much credit for it. For a real good idea as the style of music you are needing to create, listen to Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique, Smetnas Die Moldau, and to a lesser extent, Samuel Barbers Adagio for Strings. All of which are lyrical (and great pieces.) Plus, for guitar, Adagio for Strings would sound awesome.
Last edited by kaleeb at Apr 17, 2008,
#17
nonharmonic - not in the chord. A suspension is a delayed downwards resolution of a voice.
#18
Oh, ok, thank you. I guess that makes sense, "nonharmonic"...not in the harmony, chord=harmony of notes... cool, now it's in my brain lol.

I wonder if it's bad that i've used that before and haven't known the name for it? lol.
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#19
Quote by kaleeb
No one attacked your character. I was making a broad statement, saying that when you ask a short question about theory, it helps if you explain that you do know some. Obviously if you have had any training, like you said you have, then you have theory, regardless of how little you may think it is.

You seem to have a problem with believing you are being attacked and I am sorry you felt as such, but again, it was a broad statement. I wasn't attacking your character. Loosen up bro, we're all just trying to help.


BTW, I teach a Logic and Reasoning class, and you messed up the concept a bit


Also, just to answer your question. Paganini was sort of a big influence to romantic, despite the fact that he doesn't get much credit for it. For a real good idea as the style of music you are needing to create, listen to Berlioz' Symphonie Fantastique, Smetnas Die Moldau, and to a lesser extent, Samuel Barbers Adagio for Strings. All of which are lyrical (and great pieces.) Plus, for guitar, Adagio for Strings would sound awesome.


No, I already said that I am not that kind of person, I am cheerful ALL the time. I just took minor offence to it because it seemed like the tone of your underlying vocabulary was that of a condescending matter. But then again, it is hard to express emotion through words on a website . I obviously took it the wrong way. Mainly because of a huge "pet peeve" of mine: Condescending tonality, and judging or putting words into others mouths when they offender has no background info on the victim. ( Mainly because you said that I said that I didn't know music theory, when I didn't even come close to saying that). Oh and I don't think that laughing at a message online is being tense, as I was laughing at the fact that common sense was thrown out the window. Plus, it looks like many people on here has quotes from other people, showing the ones' quoted "lack of intellegence or common sense", as I see that as more offensive since your very publically exposing them even by putting their name up.

Well I was taught differently: logic and reasoning teaches that while using inductive reasoning, in which the whole conversation was about, the best way to have a strong point is by explaining your point without poking at the opposer's background life, lifestyle, or looks. (I know you really didn't do any of these, I just read it wrong).

All jokes, logic, reason, morals, common sense, and rationality aside, I apologize for my arrogance and did not mean any harm with my ROFLOLMAO sequence of letters followed by many words expressing my humurous feelings. And I know people are trying to help, I feel I did no harm.
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#20
Quote by hendrixhaze101
I can play many classically composed, and neo-classically composed songs (ie. paganini's 24th capriccio transfered from violin to guitar, and I can play it on piano to.) I just didn't know what a "lyrical" piece was, and how to make a lyrical piece. Because we also have to compose a technical piece that shows our playing to our best. Ive never heard of lyrical though, so thats why I asked how to go about writing one.
Paganini was a romantic era violinist/guitarist. If you can play the 24th (or any other caprice), use that as a template. Or pieces by other romantic era composers -- never write a piece of music without some other piece of music to help guide you, it just doesn't work. You should know this, if you've had 2.5 years of theory.

By lyrical, they either mean lyrical, or cantabile. Choose one, or ask somebody for clarification.
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#21
I think what they would like from you is emotion actually written into the music. In other words don't let the emotion of the piece rely on an exceptional individual performance or improvisation...it should be conveyed within the notes themselves. Any other performer should be able to pick up your sheet music, play the notes, and convey the same emotion you intended when you wrote it. THAT is what makes music universal. Things to keep in mind is to avoid repeating a phrase exactly within the composition, but to do "variations" (the birth of improvisation?). Tension and resolution are very important. Express them through dissonance, consonance, time changes, rest notes, and harmonies. Using counterpoint will help create two or three musical "lines" within the composition...like an orchestra in your lap. Think music first, performance second, this way you'll be able to write music you might not be able to perform yourself. They won't care how great a guitar player you are, they WILL care how great a composer you are.
#22
^ Expression is very much a playing technique, and not something written in the music.
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#23
I was called by the lead admissions for this course, and he told me that by lyrical it had to be something like a slow longer less technical song, like fur elise (which is very easy). And I guess I don't have to compose my own. Therefore I am going to perform about...3 minutes of Paganini's 24th caprice (my technical song), and all of fur elise (my lyrical song).

Thanks for all the help everyone.
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