#1
Well, ive been wondering, what scales are compatible with seventh chords. For instance, say i am playing a C seventh chord, how am i to know what scale is compatible with it? C major? C minor? What do i do there? Also blues scales, they are called blues, but say for example the E blues scale, what does that relate to, like do i just use any progression in E and that will work ?
Please help me here im fairly confused.

Also,

I know there are no rules but, The 7 chords that will fit in each key goes in the pattern

M mm MM m diminished

So where do 7th chords fit in, if i didnt want to have it as a major or minor, where does it fit in with this pattern.


Thanks alot
#2
For blues, just use a I IV V progression if you want some classic riffs. Or just make something up. There is very little theory involved in blues, so just do whatever.


I guess I didn't help too much...
#3
Just make something up? Not to sound smart but did you even fully read my post. What im asking is barely theory anyway. Hope someone can answer, thanks.
#4
Well, I don't really understand what you are asking. If you play a minor 7 chord that is the tonic chord of a progression then just play in that key. So if you play an E minor 7, play in E minor. Same for major.

As far as the minor blues scale, it's based off the full minor chord. It has the first, the third, the fourth, the fifth and the seventh, with the flatted fifth thrown in. The standard progression is a I IV V progression for blues.

If you are not asking explicitly about blues, then I don't know what to say. But if you're talking about blues, then I hope this helps.
#5
Quote by imgooley
Well, I don't really understand what you are asking. If you play a minor 7 chord that is the tonic chord of a progression then just play in that key. So if you play an E minor 7, play in E minor. Same for major.

As far as the minor blues scale, it's based off the full minor chord. It has the first, the third, the fourth, the fifth and the seventh, with the flatted fifth thrown in. The standard progression is a I IV V progression for blues.

If you are not asking explicitly about blues, then I don't know what to say. But if you're talking about blues, then I hope this helps.


Yeah alright that helps alot man, thanks. Anothe thing though, i mean just a seventh chord, not major or minor,what would i play if it was just C7 not cmaj7 or cmin7. And when i learnt a blues scale it was called E blues, not E major or E minor, what scale would go there.

thanks
#6
dominant 7th - try mixolydian
minor dominant 7th - dorian for example
major 7th - ionian
#7
Quote by Feischti
dominant 7th - try mixolydian
minor dominant 7th - dorian for example
major 7th - ionian


The term "minor seventh" is used, not "minor dominant seventh." The flat 7 is implied. A minor chord with a maj7 is called Xm/maj.

In a blues context the scale to use over C7 is the C minor blues. It makes little sense from a theory standpoint, but it's commonly done and sounds fine. Search through "Musician Talk" for more detail.
#8
okay guys i must have explained it wrong then, im saying, SAY i play a seventh chord, how can i know what chord to use next ( according to theory) Following the pattern M mm MM m Dim, im saying, where do 7th chords fit into that, i know what scales i could use already , lets say i go Cseventh chord, not major, not minor, just plain old c7th chord, from a theory perspective what rules and shizzle can i use to make that into a progression, also! I just recorded a c major seventh chord on a backing track, then played around with a c blues scale and it seemed to fit, If the scale is just C blues and not C major blues then why does this fit, im saying The scale is C blues right, well how do i know what context it will go with, it doesnt designate major or minor it just says blues whats up with that?

Same thing with the chords, if its just c7 or d7 or e7, how can i find good progressions with that.


thanks guys, please read before posting
#9
Progression-wise a 7th chord leads nicely to the chord a 5th below - see how much smoother the transition C C7 F is when compared to C F. If you're in the key of F therefore, using the C7 will guide you nicely back to your tonic.
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Last edited by steven seagull at Apr 17, 2008,
#10
Hey steve,
sorry didnt quite understand that, im meaning, how can i possibly know, what chords will go with eachother, im not trying to create a cadential effect or anything, im just like saying, okay i play a g7, now what chord is going to go with a g 7?
#11
Quote by Czizzle
Hey steve,
sorry didnt quite understand that, im meaning, how can i possibly know, what chords will go with eachother, im not trying to create a cadential effect or anything, im just like saying, okay i play a g7, now what chord is going to go with a g 7?

You know by finding out the key you're in, in terms of stuff like 7ths, sus4 etc you simply use them if their sound fits.

If you're using chords like 7ths it's usually because you want to emphasise the "progression" of the progression. It's not so much about picking a chord at random, you pick the chord based on how it fits with everything else...7th chords typically have that cadential effect, that's why people use them. Otherwise you can use them simply if you want to destabilise things a little and use them in place of major chords - like in Purple Haze.
Actually called Mark!

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#12
Quote by steven seagull
You know by finding out the key you're in, in terms of stuff like 7ths, sus4 etc you simply use them if their sound fits.

If you're using chords like 7ths it's usually because you want to emphasise the "progression" of the progression. It's not so much about picking a chord at random, you pick the chord based on how it fits with everything else...7th chords typically have that cadential effect, that's why people use them. Otherwise you can use them simply if you want to destabilise things a little and use them in place of major chords - like in Purple Haze.


So basically its about experimenting and knowing what sounds good? So, lets go with the key of C, say i start off with the chord C7, is there no rule that will theoretically guarantee another chord that fits ( like the rule M mm MM m dim)

Thanks alot steven
#13
The chord progression doesn't change in that situation, you're still in C major, you've just substituted the C7 chord for C major but all your other chords will still fit. You can, for example, happily play a 12 bar blues using all 7th chords instead of major, or even modulate between the two.

If you think about it, the typical 2 string moving 12 bar rhythm is simply modulating intervals between a 5th, 6th and 7th...doing variations on that with full chords is just as valid.
Actually called Mark!

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#14
Quote by steven seagull
The chord progression doesn't change in that situation, you're still in C major, you've just substituted the C7 chord for C major but all your other chords will still fit. You can, for example, happily play a 12 bar blues using all 7th chords instead of major, or even modulate between the two.

If you think about it, the typical 2 string moving 12 bar rhythm is simply modulating intervals between a 5th, 6th and 7th...doing variations on that with full chords is just as valid.


Hmm, so you mean apply the chords to whatever key im in and i can modulate between 7ths and major and minor and so fourth. Don't fully understand what you mean about the typical 2 string moving 12 bar rhythem thing, i dont actually know 12 bar blues never learnt it.
#15
Quote by Czizzle
Hmm, so you mean apply the chords to whatever key im in and i can modulate between 7ths and major and minor and so fourth. Don't fully understand what you mean about the typical 2 string moving 12 bar rhythem thing, i dont actually know 12 bar blues never learnt it.


basically, this thing....

E|--------------------
B|--------------------
G|--------------------
D|-2-2-4-4-5-5-4-4---
A|-0-0-0-0-0-0-0-0---
E|--------------------
Actually called Mark!

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...it's a seagull

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#16
Quote by steven seagull
The chord progression doesn't change in that situation, you're still in C major, you've just substituted the C7 chord for C major but all your other chords will still fit. You can, for example, happily play a 12 bar blues using all 7th chords instead of major, or even modulate between the two.

If you think about it, the typical 2 string moving 12 bar rhythm is simply modulating intervals between a 5th, 6th and 7th...doing variations on that with full chords is just as valid.


Alright yeah i understand that, but when you say, modulating intervals between a fifth and 6th, you mean its just going up an interval each time right? So your saying i could make a variation of a chord on each interval as long as it includes that interval? So if i was to make a seventh chord on that interval it'd still fit?