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#1
edit:
UPDATE!

I was on another forum (I won't say which) and I was discussing various metal genres/sub genres with another user. He seems fairly convinced that sub genres do not exist. The one we discuss the most is melodic death metal. He is convinced that MDM is not a legitimate genre/subgenre.

I'd just like to know what the rest of you guys think: Is melodic death metal a legitimate sub genre? Is it a legitimate genre of its own? Are subgenres legit at all?
Last edited by jetfuel495 at Mar 26, 2009,
#3
well yeah i know the differences. but what do you think is better, like musically and lyrically?

personally i think some MDM bands have some really good lyrics (like insomnium) while bands like cannibal corpse dont. with a song named 'i cum blood' im not really expecting any lyrical value.
#4
Well I like Death Metal and Melodic Death pretty much equally, but most of the time I will go to Melodic Death because most songs in that category are catchier. When I listen to regular death metal, I can't really groove to it and for the most part, the music is very "scattered". Not saying it's a bad thing though, cause I find I like listening to regular death metal when I'm pissed off.
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#5
Both. If done well.
Some melodic death metal is awful.

But then again, so is some death metal. (Cannibal Corpse, Mortician)
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#6
Quote by postmortem2006
Death metal = Obituary, Death

Generic mainstream death metal = Cannibal Corpse, Nile

Melodic Death Metal = Dethklok, Arch Enemy (but AE suck)


dethklok is a poor example fo death metal and you say AE enemy sucks

also nile and cannibal corpse are hardly generic considering theyre very early well established bands.

also i would call death - melodic death IMO

Decapitated is a perfect definition of death metal

melodic death i would go for Insomnium
#7
Death are not melodic death metal.
They're ****ing death metal pioneers who later progressed into a more progressive death metal band.
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#8
Quote by postmortem2006
Death metal = Obituary, Death

Generic mainstream death metal = Cannibal Corpse, Nile

Melodic Death Metal = Dethklok, Arch Enemy (but AE suck)


Is that phrase a contradiction? I never knew mainstream and death metal could be in the same sentence.

But, to put it simply, I like melodeath a little bit better. I'm not that big into Nile or any regular death metal bands, but I enjoy Dethklok, Children Of Bodom, and Black Dahlia Murder (who are arguably deathcore) often. I think Death may be one of the only regular death metal bands I like.
#9
Quote by AltarsOfMadness
Death are not melodic death metal.
They're ****ing death metal pioneers who later progressed into a more progressive death metal band.


yes theyre death metal pioneers that doesnt prevent them being melodic death.
#11
Quote by ch715dallat
yes theyre death metal pioneers that doesnt prevent them being melodic death.



Ok then.
Explain how they're melodic death metal.

Funnily enough i don't think they sound anything like Heartwork era Carcass, At the Gates or early In Flames etc.
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#13
Quote by ch715dallat
because theyre death metal and theyre pretty damn melodic thus melodic death




Most death metal bands will have some melodies unless they're ULTRA BR0000TULZ crap.
So what you're saying pretty much makes death metal a redundant genre.
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#14
Quote by AltarsOfMadness
Most death metal bands will have some melodies unless they're ULTRA BR0000TULZ crap.
So what you're saying pretty much makes death metal a redundant genre.


I'm going to have to agree with you on this argument. I too see the band "Death" as just regular death metal. When I think melodic, I think Amon Amarth, In Flames, At The Gates, etc. Sure, regular death metal has SOME melody in their music, it doesnt automatically make them melodeath.
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#15
thats because you two are douches that follow everything the media says,

Death has some pretty melodeathy riffs in alot of songs

While say morbid angel has most thrash influenced stuff and some death metal as they're one of the pioneers, hell I dont think I'ever actually seen much death metal on Death after human

I side ch715dallat,

and Death had melody regularly ever after human, so uh yeah... if you want me to point the plethoral of melodeathy riffs, then say so and ill start naming them off =\
#16
Quote by NosferatuZodd09
thats because you two are douches that follow everything the media says,

Death has some pretty melodeathy riffs in alot of songs

While say morbid angel has most thrash influenced stuff and some death metal as they're one of the pioneers, hell I dont think I'ever actually seen much death metal on Death after human

I side ch715dallat,

and Death had melody regularly ever after human, so uh yeah... if you want me to point the plethoral of melodeathy riffs, then say so and ill start naming them off =\


Death isn't straight up death metal or melodic death.... they're either progressive death metal or technical death metal however you want to put it (I am talking Human and after words era Death) if you're going to talk about Death as applying to either of the genres of Death Metal or MDM then you need to only look at SBG, Leprosy, and SH, and in my opinion they're more Death metal there then MDM... they still have several melodic instances and are way more melodic than straight up death metal bands, but they're still mostly death metal.

Death Metal= Obituary, Morbid Angel, Cannibal Corpse, Nile, Suffocation, Immolation

Melodic Death Metal= early In Flames, Dark Tranquility, Kalmah, Amon Amarth, Arch Enemy, Arsis (possibly, I consider them more tech death than melo death but like Death they have many melodic elements).

Progressive/Tech Death Metal= Death, Cynic, Atheist, Pestilence, Ion Dissonance, Decrepit Birth, Martyr, Quo Vadis, Opeth

(I lumped Progressive DM and Technical DM into one category because usually most prog DM bands are also very technical and most technical DM bands have some prog elements).

and IMO, straight up DM wins between the two, but I'd rather say Prog/Tech DM wins if it could be included. MDM has some great stuff, and I love a lot of MDM bands, but some of them just get annoying, especially since usually almost everyone calls bands that sound not even very similar MDM if its got screeches/growls and has riffing that involves playing notes between the 7th and 12th fret (usually on the 5th and 4th string) and the open 6th string. Then again, almost everyone calls many bands MDM cause they will make the argument that it "has melodic elements". Melodic elements doesn't make it MDM.

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#17
I like it when death metal and melodic death metal is original.

Both genres have staggering amounts of band who just ape the greats. I get sick of the Carcass, Death, At the Gates, Cannibal Corpse clones there are out there nowadays, but I'll love original stuff.

On the whole, I think I enjoy melodic death that is visceral and original while remaining very, very heavy (I know there isn't much around nowadays) more than I do original and brutal death metal. I love Morbid Angel, Cannibal Corpse, Nile, Behemoth and Hate Eternal (I stick to the better known ones, it has to be said), but I just think a lot of death metal is tepid and far too similar sounding nowadays.
#19
Death arent remotelt technical dm wot are you on about, yes theyre progressive but tech dm not a chance
#20
Quote by postmortem2006
Death metal = Obituary, Death

Generic mainstream death metal
= Cannibal Corpse, Nile

Melodic Death Metal = Dethklok, Arch Enemy (but AE suck)



I cant wait to hear an explanation of this. And how, pray tell, are Nile generic? Did they rip off another unknown Egyptian-themed technical death metal band?
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


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#21
Quote by NosferatuZodd09
thats because you two are douches that follow everything the media says,

Death has some pretty melodeathy riffs in alot of songs

While say morbid angel has most thrash influenced stuff and some death metal as they're one of the pioneers, hell I dont think I'ever actually seen much death metal on Death after human

I side ch715dallat,

and Death had melody regularly ever after human, so uh yeah... if you want me to point the plethoral of melodeathy riffs, then say so and ill start naming them off =\



I've listened to every Death release and they all have aspects of Death metal in them. To say there isn't much death metal on anything after Human is ridiculous. It's still there, it's just watered down and prog influenced.

And maybe they do have some "melodeathy riffs" on some songs but that does not make them melodic death.

But don't listen to me, I'm just some douche who follows everything the media says.
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#23
hm, Melodic Death Metal done the right way... post in response to previous convo coming up soon...
Last edited by NosferatuZodd09 at Apr 17, 2008,
#24
What the hell? Am I the only one completely amazed by the futility of both this question and some of the arguments in here? Melodic metal and Death Metal are both valid forms of music, but to be honest the line is so blurred that it's impossible to say one's better than the other. The arguments in here prove that. It's like saying a white spoons better than a black spoon.

And those arguing about whether Death are Death Metal or Melodic, just accept reality - you're never going to convince each other. It's down to interpretation.

Now get a life, for heaven's sake.
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#25
Well, they both have their moments for me. Although when it comes Death metal bands like Obituary and old Death, I'd rather just listen to thrash.

I prefer technical death metal, oh and Blackened death metal (Behemoth mainly). As for technical my favourites are Wormed, Spawn of possession, Nile, and I just started getting in to Brain drill.

I also prefer new Death to old Death (the band I mean) because I like their melodic stuff like Symbolic.

My favourite melo-death bands are: At the gates, The Black dahlia murder (if they're considered melo-death), and bands that are melodic black/symphonic metal like Vesperian sorrow, and Cryptic wintermoon.
#26
Some melodic death metal can bore me out of my mind, so can some death metal. The Absence's "From Your Grave" is pretty good, but their new album is just one of those boring ass melodeath albums.
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#27
i perfer standard. i think that there is far less originality in Melodic Death Metal and just perfer heaviness over melody in general.
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#28
Quote by Daemos
What the hell? Am I the only one completely amazed by the futility of both this question and some of the arguments in here? Melodic metal and Death Metal are both valid forms of music, but to be honest the line is so blurred that it's impossible to say one's better than the other. The arguments in here prove that. It's like saying a white spoons better than a black spoon.

And those arguing about whether Death are Death Metal or Melodic, just accept reality - you're never going to convince each other. It's down to interpretation.

Now get a life, for heaven's sake.



Children of Bodom are called Melodeath on this forum... Morbid Angel are Death Metal. You think the line between those two bands is blurry? Stop trying to be the wise old sage of this thread, you fail.
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


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#29
Oh boy, oh boy, can't wait for an informative essay on melodeath from the Zoddmeister.
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#30
First of all, theres no question, he's asking for people's opinion on why they prefer either

No one is taking the validity of the music

The line is quite defined and the standard MDM is quite different from actual death metal

Personally I like silver spoons with no handle, though perhaps white plastic spoons are quite efficient given you can just throw them away/recycle them
I think I will be the first person to quote himself? I really loved this line I made^^ lmao XD


As for Death I usually leave it to analysing the guitar work to categorize a band, its fun talking about it seeing as how I like analysing riffing structures and the such...


Lmao Rej666 XDDDDDDDD <333 much love; though sadly no informative essay this time I dont think I've seen enough info about melodeath or talk requiring a good ol' straightening based on riffing analysing and stuff
Last edited by NosferatuZodd09 at Apr 17, 2008,
#31
*Sigh* Whatever. All I'm saying is it seems rather pathetic to me to get wound up about whether Death are Death Metal or Melodic Death Metal. They personally probably don't care what you call them. So why do you? You have better things to do. To you people the line may be well defined, but everyone's different. Stranglehold, you state Children of Bodom and Morbid Angel as if they're typical examples, but you've chosen two bands at opposite extremes for the sole purpose of trying to make me appear stupid. That's not going to work.

As for being a wise old sage, I should hope not at my age.
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#32
I'll let it slip this time.

Anyway, both genres have their strong and weak points. Straight-up Death metal tends to suffer from lack of melody. A lot of melodeath tends to suffer from lack of good riffs. They're both excellent genres, but because I listen to a lot more melodeath than death I'll just go with melodeath as my favourite.
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#33
Quote by Daemos
*Sigh* Whatever. All I'm saying is it seems rather pathetic to me to get wound up about whether Death are Death Metal or Melodic Death Metal. They personally probably don't care what you call them. So why do you? You have better things to do. To you people the line may be well defined, but everyone's different. Stranglehold, you state Children of Bodom and Morbid Angel as if they're typical examples, but you've chosen two bands at opposite extremes for the sole purpose of trying to make me appear stupid. That's not going to work.

As for being a wise old sage, I should hope not at my age.



Two opposite extremes would have been something like Dark Tranquility and Brodequin, I chose two well known bands that most people in this thread would have heard, and that fit the genres stated suitably.
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


Quote by Ingested
burzum IS nazi. well, varg is.
#34
Quote by Reject_666_6
I'll let it slip this time.

Anyway, both genres have their strong and weak points. Straight-up Death metal tends to suffer from lack of melody. A lot of melodeath tends to suffer from lack of good riffs. They're both excellent genres, but because I listen to a lot more melodeath than death I'll just go with melodeath as my favourite.



Since when is this a bad thing?
Quote by Ultraussie
I want to try that while playing the opening riff to "Tempting Time".

0-0-0-13-0-0-0-0-13 or something like that alalalala but It;s so heavy and off time and awesome and you could not f**k anyone to it.


Quote by Ingested
burzum IS nazi. well, varg is.
#35
its an opinion and to him it can be a bad thing, I'd say the downside is "some of it just relies too much on powerchords" but theres alot more to it than that

but the the reason "melodeath" is called melodeath is probably cause random people not knowing enough about guitarwork structure heard "hm... powerchords and screams (regardless of it being a shriek or guttural)... it has melody... d00d its melodic deth mehtulz" "yuh d00d, schweet" and hence, the term was coined
Last edited by NosferatuZodd09 at Apr 17, 2008,
#37
Quote by Stranglehold
Since when is this a bad thing?


I just consider it a weak point. That's why I prefer Death to CC or Deicide, because of the extra melodiousness.
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#38
Quote by Stranglehold
Two opposite extremes would have been something like Dark Tranquility and Brodequin, I chose two well known bands that most people in this thread would have heard, and that fit the genres stated suitably.


Yes, yes, ok, but that alone doesn't stop there being a number of bands that do blur the line. I think it just seems unnecessary to me to classify music to such an exact degree. Most bands (good ones, anyway) set out to break the mould, and so giving them a genre just results in a ridiculous number of different names and classifications for genres. This is what's got under my skin here, I think, more than anything, and I'm sorry if my reaction was less than polite, but it's just so infuriating
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#40
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But you have to be old to be a wise, old sage.
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