#1
Hey all!

What would be a good scale to play over the Gm7b5 chord? im trying to understand music theory more deeply so that i may improve my improv.
By looking at it, i would say the G blues scale. Would this sound good over it you think?
thanks!
When one truly knows oneself, one understands that one is divine, but also one understands that one is mortal. In such a way, you recognize that this mortality is really meaningless, as physical existence is meaningless.
#3
Quote by Stratwizard
Just the basic locrian sounds good over it.



ok, silly me! thanks a lot! i appreciate it!
When one truly knows oneself, one understands that one is divine, but also one understands that one is mortal. In such a way, you recognize that this mortality is really meaningless, as physical existence is meaningless.
#4
The blues scale may sound ok... but it has a perfrect 5th, which could cause some trouble.

The whole point of the blues scale is to have a 'blue' note, or so i thought. In this case your 'blue' note is within the chord, so whether or not the scale will work using the perfect 5th as the 'blue' note i am not sure!!! it might do!
#6
Def use the G Locrian mode as Stratwizard suggested, also if you treat it as the VII chord in the key of Ab / G# major, you can use the Ionian shape from this root note. All the notes are the same, just in a different order.

It can sometimes be a real pain to remember all the shapes of the modes. There are other ways of creating the effects of the modes by using those ever reliable pentatonic boxes. I'll come back later if you'd like to know how to use these but I have to leave now.
#7
You could also try the locrian variation from 6th mode of melodic minor - 1 2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7 for a different flavor which gets rid of the b9 interval from the standard locrian mode
#8
there is a bunch of stuff you can do.

obvious thing would be the G locrian scale or a Gm7b5 arpeggio.

to sound more hip, you can go up a minor 3rd and play a Bb melodic minor scale. which gets rid of the b9 and replaces it with a 9. some people like to call this the superlocrian scale.

because of this, you can also do the arpeggio form up a minor 3rd, in this case a Bb minor maj 7 arpeggio.

you can go down a whole step and play a F major triad/arpeggio

you can go up a minor 3rd again and use a Bb minor pentatonic scale

or you can go up a 4th in this case C, and play a C minor pentatonic scale.

you can also play triads on the flat 5th and the #5 or flat 6th

so in this case Db major triad/arpeggio, and Eb major triad/arpeggio.
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#9
Quote by rich2k4
there is a bunch of stuff you can do.

obvious thing would be the G locrian scale or a Gm7b5 arpeggio.

to sound more hip, you can go up a minor 3rd and play a Bb melodic minor scale. which gets rid of the b9 and replaces it with a 9. some people like to call this the superlocrian scale.

because of this, you can also do the arpeggio form up a minor 3rd, in this case a Bb minor maj 7 arpeggio.

you can go down a whole step and play a F major triad/arpeggio

you can go up a minor 3rd again and use a Bb minor pentatonic scale

or you can go up a 4th in this case C, and play a C minor pentatonic scale.

you can also play triads on the flat 5th and the #5 or flat 6th

so in this case Db major triad/arpeggio, and Eb major triad/arpeggio.


That^
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#10
I was watching a pro jazz guy from the area discuss some of his approaches this weekend, and he brought up two things that he might play on that chord that I don't think have been mentioned yet.

1. Play Eb7 Bebop. Now, this is just G locrian with an added D, which is a perfect fifth. This guy loves bebop scales, and subs them in a lot over different chords. If you're emphasizing Eb7 bebop's chord tones on downbeats (Eb, G, Bb and Db) the perfect fifth won't be brought out as much.

2. Play Eb HW. He has a method of going a little more outside by subbing a HW scale for whatever Bebop scale he'd use in a situation. In this case, the notes are Eb E F# G A Bb C Db, meaning the most interesting part of the scale is the E and F#. This means you won't be playing the b7. This might sound odd, but I guess it's in the phrasing, since when he played it the scale sounded fine.
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#11
Quote by psychodelia
I was watching a pro jazz guy from the area discuss some of his approaches this weekend, and he brought up two things that he might play on that chord that I don't think have been mentioned yet.

1. Play Eb7 Bebop. Now, this is just G locrian with an added D, which is a perfect fifth. This guy loves bebop scales, and subs them in a lot over different chords. If you're emphasizing Eb7 bebop's chord tones on downbeats (Eb, G, Bb and Db) the perfect fifth won't be brought out as much.

2. Play Eb HW. He has a method of going a little more outside by subbing a HW scale for whatever Bebop scale he'd use in a situation. In this case, the notes are Eb E F# G A Bb C Db, meaning the most interesting part of the scale is the E and F#. This means you won't be playing the b7. This might sound odd, but I guess it's in the phrasing, since when he played it the scale sounded fine.


yep the bebop scale is good to use. you can also think of it as a mixolydian scale with a maj7th

it's always about the phrasing. i see a lot of guys here with lots of by the book theory smarts. saying things like "oh you can't play this over that, it's technically wrong" of course you can, if you have excellent phrasing you'll make it work.
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"Those who dream by night, in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible."
#12
to above

Mixolydian with a maj7 is Ionian.
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#15
Quote by bangoodcharlote
An added nat7.


What's the context?


Wouldn't it be better thought of as a major scale with an added minor seventh, which makes the bebop scale?
#16
Quote by isaac_bandits
Wouldn't it be better thought of as a major scale with an added minor seventh, which makes the bebop scale?
I've never knowingly used it and I don't know that much about it.


However, it's a jazz scale and jazz uses a lot of tension, and a lot of tension is created by playing weird notes over dom7 chords, so I have no problem with calling the nat7 the added note.


But I don't really know what I'm talking about.
#17
Quote by bangoodcharlote
I've never knowingly used it and I don't know that much about it.


However, it's a jazz scale and jazz uses a lot of tension, and a lot of tension is created by playing weird notes over dom7 chords, so I have no problem with calling the nat7 the added note.


But I don't really know what I'm talking about.


Nice to see some humility from you

I still like to think of it as major with a b7, just due to the fact that a major scale is what all other scales are based off of, and thus it makes more sense then Mixo add nat 7
#19
Quote by isaac_bandits
Nice to see some humility from you

I still like to think of it as major with a b7, just due to the fact that a major scale is what all other scales are based off of, and thus it makes more sense then Mixo add nat 7


The added note in the bebop scale is the natural 7th though. It derives from dominant chords.

The guiding concept behind the bebop "scales" (They really aren't scales the way I define them ... they aren't used harmonically, only melodically) Is that you use them to play a descending eighth note line where the chord tones in a four note chord fall on the strong beats:

Eb7

Eb D Db C Bb Ab G F Eb

The same is routinely done with ii chords:

Cm7 (the scale emphasizes a _m6 chord because that is the defining ii sound)

C Bb A Ab G F Eb D C
#20
remember my jazz guitar teacher telling me that a lot of jazz musicians would emphasize the up beats more with the scale, making the 7th, 9th, 11th, and 13th more emphasized.


i can't recall this too well, i might be wrong.
http://richmusic.dmusic.com

"Those who dream by night, in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that all was vanity; but dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act their dream with open eyes, and make it possible."
#21
There's no reason not to do that, and many do.

It's a harder sound to use, that's all. Walk before run and all that.