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#1
So I just recently finished reading this for my Independent Study Novels class. I was inspired to read this as I had already watched Kubrick's film Clockwork Orange. I found the two were quite different. The unedited ending of the novel ends quite differently.

Has anyone read this piece of literature? What did you think of it?
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
Vagina's tend to be not all that great looking most of the time. It's all... flappy. Looks sloppy.

I'd have to say guy junk wins but not by much. It's like winning a beauty contest against Steve Buscemi.
#2
I unfortunately have not. My library doesn't have it and I haven't seen it in any bookstore recently. I've seen the movie, though. I loved that. What about the book is different from the movie?
#3
it was another attempt at trying to be different. it was pretty interesting in his development of a possible futuristic english language with made-up slang though
#4
It's a lot better than Kubrick's adaptation. Though, I still like both versions.
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#6
Ive seen the film, pretty fu**ed up $hit




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#7
"Guttiwutts", its my favourite word! I think A Clockword Orange, even though I haven't read the book, is a serious piece of work, bordering on the quality and inspirational ideas of the Lord of the Rings trilogy.
#8
i love the nadsat slang. its so much more prominent than in the movie. its like you have to learn a whole new language by context.
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I have no opinion on this matter.
#9
I think you'll find that Kubricks interpretations usually differ quite a bit from the books he bases his movies on, read S. Kings The Shining then watch Kubricks movie of it.
#10
I own both adaptations of this awesome story. I like the book better than I like the movie. Although I do love the movie. The book adds a lot more to the story. Love it.
#12
Quote by scorpion618^
I unfortunately have not. My library doesn't have it and I haven't seen it in any bookstore recently. I've seen the movie, though. I loved that. What about the book is different from the movie?


The Kubrick movie completely cut out the proper ending. In the film, it's strongly implied that Alex returns to his wicked old ways. In the book, Alex eventually gets tired of all the ultra-violence and outgrows it. He reflects on how one day he'll have a son who'll go through exactly the same sort of stage that he did. The whole point of the ending in the novel is that Alex on his own manages to do what all the governmental brainwashing failed to- he overcomes his violent urges and decides to lead a calmer, more productive life. He grows up, in other words, whereas the movie simply returns him to the psychotic scallywag he was before. Not saying that I dislike the movie (I don't), but it can't hold a candle to the book.
#13
has anyone ever thought that the movie "trainspotting" is a modern version of "clockwork orange"?

i was just discussing this with some friends yesterday


edit: ad I agree with all the above... thats why i always try to read the book before watching the movie... like in "the perfume" (dont know if thats the correct translation since i saw the movie title in spanish)
#15
Quote by j-e-f-f-e-r-s
The Kubrick movie completely cut out the proper ending. In the film, it's strongly implied that Alex returns to his wicked old ways. In the book, Alex eventually gets tired of all the ultra-violence and outgrows it. He reflects on how one day he'll have a son who'll go through exactly the same sort of stage that he did. The whole point of the ending in the novel is that Alex on his own manages to do what all the governmental brainwashing failed to- he overcomes his violent urges and decides to lead a calmer, more productive life. He grows up, in other words, whereas the movie simply returns him to the psychotic scallywag he was before. Not saying that I dislike the movie (I don't), but it can't hold a candle to the book.

That's also because the American publisher did not include the last chapter in the novel. Kubrick did not know of this and created the movie anyway.
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#16
Quote by paintITblack39
That's also because the American publisher did not include the last chapter in the novel. Kubrick did not know of this and created the movie anyway.


Wow, I didn't know that. Seems a bit silly to me that the publisher would release a book full of sex and violence, and not include the chapter where the character sees the error of his ways. And in America of all places. Funny old world, really...
#17
Quote by j-e-f-f-e-r-s
The Kubrick movie completely cut out the proper ending. In the film, it's strongly implied that Alex returns to his wicked old ways. In the book, Alex eventually gets tired of all the ultra-violence and outgrows it. He reflects on how one day he'll have a son who'll go through exactly the same sort of stage that he did. The whole point of the ending in the novel is that Alex on his own manages to do what all the governmental brainwashing failed to- he overcomes his violent urges and decides to lead a calmer, more productive life. He grows up, in other words, whereas the movie simply returns him to the psychotic scallywag he was before. Not saying that I dislike the movie (I don't), but it can't hold a candle to the book.


Well, it kind of puts two different interpretations. One saying you can't truly change someone, you can change what they do but not how they think and the actual ending I guess says everyone eventually grows up.
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#18
Quote by j-e-f-f-e-r-s
Wow, I didn't know that. Seems a bit silly to me that the publisher would release a book full of sex and violence, and not include the chapter where the character sees the error of his ways. And in America of all places. Funny old world, really...


I think the point of this was that the publisher wanted that certain "style" of book with a downer ending (maybe a la 1984). The +/- of the intended ending changes a lot. While I would have been fine with a downer ending, a book should be published how the author wants it. Luckily, he eventually got his wish.

My book is in my locker otherwise I'd give more details. In my version I think either Burgess or the new publisher goes in-depth on why that happened.
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
Vagina's tend to be not all that great looking most of the time. It's all... flappy. Looks sloppy.

I'd have to say guy junk wins but not by much. It's like winning a beauty contest against Steve Buscemi.
#19
Quote by j-e-f-f-e-r-s
Wow, I didn't know that. Seems a bit silly to me that the publisher would release a book full of sex and violence, and not include the chapter where the character sees the error of his ways. And in America of all places. Funny old world, really...


Yeah, in the foreword Anthony Burgess explains how authors often set out to write a book with a certain number of chapters in mind, much like a composer will have a general idea of how long his or her piece will be. Burgess wrote 21 chapters, clearly a reference to becoming an adult at 21, but the publisher only wanted a 20 chapter book. He didn't have any other takers, and needed to get money somehow, so he was forced to cut off the last chapter.
#20
I've not read it yet, it's in the house... but there's so much to read! lol
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#22
Quote by meh!
I've not read it yet, it's in the house... but there's so much to read! lol


I know how you feel. I have a huge summer reading list!

1. Lolita
2. Catcher In The Rye
3. Slaughterhouse Five
4. Atlas Shrugged (it's a damn behemoth!)

Well, there's just too many to list!
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
Vagina's tend to be not all that great looking most of the time. It's all... flappy. Looks sloppy.

I'd have to say guy junk wins but not by much. It's like winning a beauty contest against Steve Buscemi.
#24
Quote by Stingmaskii
Yeah, in the foreword Anthony Burgess explains how authors often set out to write a book with a certain number of chapters in mind, much like a composer will have a general idea of how long his or her piece will be. Burgess wrote 21 chapters, clearly a reference to becoming an adult at 21, but the publisher only wanted a 20 chapter book. He didn't have any other takers, and needed to get money somehow, so he was forced to cut off the last chapter.


Well I didn't know that either (my goodness, I've actually got some education from the Pit). That's actually quite cool. 21 chapters, adult at 21 (though here in Blighty you're an adult at 18, so it's not quite the same thing). It must be quite a challenge to force yourself to write a book in 21 chapters. I've always imagined writing as quite a rambling process.
#25
Quote by barb3rman
I know how you feel. I have a huge summer reading list!

1. Lolita
2. Catcher In The Rye
3. Slaughterhouse Five
4. Atlas Shrugged (it's a damn behemoth!)

Well, there's just too many to list!



Jesus, that is a fookin hefty list. I was thinking of picking up Atlas Shrugged, then found out in order to do so I'd need a forklift truck. Maybe when I'm feeling really brave...
#26
Quote by The_Paranoia
What exactly is Clockwork Orange? I've heard of it but never heard anyone say it was worth the read.


It's about a 15 year old who goes around committing numerous crimes with his gang. It's main focus is punishment and a "when have we gone too far" sort of theme.

It's a great read. Burgess is a great writer. He invented his own slang for the book that the teenagers used. It's like reading another language. Put me off for the first page but then I realized how infectious it was figuring out this slang just through context.

I'd recommend it and by the number of posters here I'm sure there are many others who would as well. I enjoy books that make you think about some issue and if you are the same way you will like it just as well.

Quote by j-e-f-f-e-r-s
Jesus, that is a fookin hefty list. I was thinking of picking up Atlas Shrugged, then found out in order to do so I'd need a forklift truck. Maybe when I'm feeling really brave...


Aye. I went to pick it up some time ago not realizing how large it was. I, instead, picked up Ayn Rand's other book The Fountainhead which was large but not as much so. It turned out that The Fountainhead was easily the best damn book I had ever read. Lead me to buy my own copy of Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged.

I've putting off Atlas Shrugged though. I don't have enough time during school to read it. Can't wait though.
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
Vagina's tend to be not all that great looking most of the time. It's all... flappy. Looks sloppy.

I'd have to say guy junk wins but not by much. It's like winning a beauty contest against Steve Buscemi.
Last edited by barb3rman at Apr 20, 2008,
#27
Quote by barb3rman
I know how you feel. I have a huge summer reading list!

1. Lolita
2. Catcher In The Rye
3. Slaughterhouse Five
4. Atlas Shrugged (it's a damn behemoth!)

Well, there's just too many to list!

My summer list consists of Catcher In The Rye and Slaughterhouse Five.

I think if I have time, I'll read Ulysses.
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#28
Quote by paintITblack39
My summer list consists of Catcher In The Rye and Slaughterhouse Five.

I think if I have time, I'll read Ulysses.



Oh jeez. Don't give me any more suggestions. I beg you. I'll have time enough to take a dip in some literature this summer but surely not enough to drown myself.
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
Vagina's tend to be not all that great looking most of the time. It's all... flappy. Looks sloppy.

I'd have to say guy junk wins but not by much. It's like winning a beauty contest against Steve Buscemi.
#29
I hate Ayn Rand with a furious socialist passion...
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#30
Quote by meh!
I hate Ayn Rand with a furious socialist passion...




I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough to start an argument here but even if I was I don't feel like it lol.

I just read the book not knowing much about her views. Turns out some of her ideas presented in the books were things I had thought about but not really formed in my head. Like rough ideas that became more of an ideology.

Have you read The Fountainhead?
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
Vagina's tend to be not all that great looking most of the time. It's all... flappy. Looks sloppy.

I'd have to say guy junk wins but not by much. It's like winning a beauty contest against Steve Buscemi.
Last edited by barb3rman at Apr 20, 2008,
#31
I"ve not read her novels, just her philosophy, such as it is

(Presented by her notable companion/collegue, who I forget the name of)]


EDIT: It might interest you to know that she was a rabid homophobe and believed women shouldn't ever be allowed positions of power.
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#32
Quote by meh!
I"ve not read her novels, just her philosophy, such as it is

(Presented by her notable companion/collegue, who I forget the name of)]


EDIT: It might interest you to know that she was a rabid homophobe and believed women shouldn't ever be allowed positions of power.


heh, this thread is getting off-topic but oh well.

I have not read much into her philosophies. I did know that she was against homosexuals. She said it was morally wrong and disagreed with it but did not think that the government had rights to stop them from doing what the wanted, etc.

As for the women being in power thing, I have no real knowledge about it but I did read that somewhere.

Anyways, it is not as if I worship Ayn Rand (ah, that would go against her beliefs lol). I have not read into her philosophy. I just really liked the book. I will form more opinions as I read Atlas Shrugged. I like reading about different ways to view the world and all that. The more you read and learn the better decisions I will make.

As it stands right now, I agreed with almost everything brought up in The Fountainhead, or at least everything on the surface. I'm sure there is more to it but I have not had the opportunity of discussing it in a class or with anyone for that matter.

Was it Leonard Peikoff you were referring to earlier?
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
Vagina's tend to be not all that great looking most of the time. It's all... flappy. Looks sloppy.

I'd have to say guy junk wins but not by much. It's like winning a beauty contest against Steve Buscemi.
#33
I wasn't trying to reflect those beliefs upon you! haha, no. I'm just saying I think she is a repellent woman.

And her literature may be excellent, have fun with it! But I know what she believes and that makes me dislike her as a person, and I can't bring my self to read her books.

EDIT: yeah, taht's the feller
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#34
Quote by meh!
I wasn't trying to reflect those beliefs upon you! haha, no. I'm just saying I think she is a repellent woman.

And her literature may be excellent, have fun with it! But I know what she believes and that makes me dislike her as a person, and I can't bring my self to read her books.

EDIT: yeah, taht's the feller


So uh, yeah... *cough*

Burgess? He was a nice guy, right?
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
Vagina's tend to be not all that great looking most of the time. It's all... flappy. Looks sloppy.

I'd have to say guy junk wins but not by much. It's like winning a beauty contest against Steve Buscemi.
#35
this thread contains such intelligence that i forgot i was in the pit, srsly.

that being said, now i really want to pick up a clockwork orange in novel form.
also catcher in the rye is a great book that makes you think, and slaughterhouse five is on my summer reading list too
#36
Quote by russiaininvader
this thread contains such intelligence that i forgot i was in the pit, srsly.

that being said, now i really want to pick up a clockwork orange in novel form.
also catcher in the rye is a great book that makes you think, and slaughterhouse five is on my summer reading list too


If it wasn't my own thread, I'd have forgetting it was the pit as well!

I highly, highly suggest A Clockwork Orange. You won't be disappointed.
Quote by PaperStSoapCo
Vagina's tend to be not all that great looking most of the time. It's all... flappy. Looks sloppy.

I'd have to say guy junk wins but not by much. It's like winning a beauty contest against Steve Buscemi.
#37
Not a huge fan of Ayn Rand either, but I haven't read her much, I picked up Anthem a little while ago cause I wanted a quick little one night book and I ended up getting turned of by it. I liked many elements of how the book was written but how fervently rightist she is kind of got my goat. I'll get around to The Fountainhead/Atlas Shrugged in due time sometime in college next year though, she's intrigued me enough to deserve some more attention, even if I'm not a huge fan.
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#39
Quote by The_Paranoia
What exactly is Clockwork Orange? I've heard of it but never heard anyone say it was worth the read.

I'm not sure anyone could describe it with enough eloquence to make it worth it.... it well worth a read though. It's another distopian future novel (similar to 1984 and Brave New World but unique in it's own right). Just read it, you won't be disappointed.
#40
i read the book and saw the movie in grade 6. i love it.
it was well written, and i think its interesting that burgess created this awful lead character, and he can make us feel sorry for him
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