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#1
Anyone who browses MSN.com may have noticed the amazing pictures of how much space junk, mainly disused or broken satellites, orbits around the earth. But I wondered, surely satellites cast some kind of (large) shadow over us? But how is it we do not notice? Am confused.
#5
actually, it would be huge, so huge you wouldn't see it
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#6
Quote by sofubar
Anyone who browses MSN.com may have noticed the amazing pictures of how much space junk, mainly disused or broken satellites, orbits around the earth. But I wondered, surely satellites cast some kind of (large) shadow over us? But how is it we do not notice? Am confused.


Light is diffracted about all over the atmosphere and even though the light comes from one source, the area of light falling on the earth from the sun is huge.

You have so much light bouncing around the atmosphere that the shadows do not form. Also, you have cloud cover that reflects light back... There is so much going on with the light rays. Also the intensity of a shadow decreases with distance (well lack of light), depending on the size of the object.

Huge objects like a planet would cause shadows, but a satelite would have a negligable shadow. The distance factor is important here because the light is reflected, refracted and deflected all about the atmosphere.

You need something like the mood to cause a proper shadow..
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#7
Quote by ViperScale
Well considering the size of them if anything it would be extremely small

Eh? Why? Think of the huge scary shadow effect, which turns out to be a mouse etc.

And here's the piccies, I was shocked, had no idea so much junk was really up there.

http://tech.uk.msn.com/features/gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=8114216

EDIT: Ahhh ok GuitarDude19, good point. Should have thought it through more before posting Oh well, the pics are interesting.
#8
I think they're far enough away and small enough that a lot of light would leak in around them. The answer is yes, but not a very noticeable one.
#9
Quote by Guitardude19
Light is diffracted about all over the atmosphere and even though the light comes from one source, the area of light falling on the earth from the sun is huge.

You have so much light bouncing around the atmosphere that the shadows do not form. Also, you have cloud cover that reflects light back... There is so much going on with the light rays. Also the intensity of a shadow decreases with distance (well lack of light), depending on the size of the object.

Huge objects like a planet would cause shadows, but a satelite would have a negligable shadow. The distance factor is important here because the light is reflected, refracted and deflected all about the atmosphere.

You need something like the mood to cause a proper shadow..

What he said. /uselesspost
#10
Quote by sofubar
Eh? Why? Think of the huge scary shadow effect, which turns out to be a mouse etc.

And here's the piccies, I was shocked, had no idea so much junk was really up there.

http://tech.uk.msn.com/features/gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=8114216

EDIT: Ahhh ok GuitarDude19, good point. Should have thought it through more before posting Oh well, the pics are interesting.


The pictures are hugely dramatized, the satellites are many times smaller.
And what is more, there's been a bloody purple nose and some bloody purple clothes that were messing up the lobby floor. It's just apartment house rules so all you 'partment fools remember : one man's ceiling is another man's floor.
#11
all this science stuff is dumb I swear half the things scientist tell you they prove wrong a few years later and yes light reflects and flies everywhere.
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#12
Everything casts a shadow.
But because Satellites are small, their shadows don't travel far cuz of diffraction of light. The light bends around the satellite and covers over them before their shadow reaches earth.
#13
Quote by sofubar
Eh? Why? Think of the huge scary shadow effect, which turns out to be a mouse etc.

And here's the piccies, I was shocked, had no idea so much junk was really up there.

http://tech.uk.msn.com/features/gallery.aspx?cp-documentid=8114216

EDIT: Ahhh ok GuitarDude19, good point. Should have thought it through more before posting Oh well, the pics are interesting.



It all depends on how close the object is to the source of the light and how big the object is compared to the source of light. Compare a object to the size of the sun then compare how far away the object is to the sun and how much further the light has to go before it hits a solid object. The light will just go around it.
#14
light bends around objects, like a wave in a swimming pool. and the space junk is small enough that it goes right around them like nothing is there. Like in a solar eclipse, you can still see sun rays.
#16
Quote by nasadm
all this science stuff is dumb I swear half the things scientist tell you they prove wrong a few years later and yes light reflects and flies everywhere.


*Slams head into a brick wall over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again*

This is popsci its not real science! Its hugely dramatised to feed people something to get worked up over, even though they do not know what is really going on.

Your statement is full of ignorance.

Quantum theory has held for 90 years, Evolution has held for 150 years, Faradays laws have held for over 200 years, Newtonian mechanics has held for over 500 years for macro systems.

You are so full of fail. Go read a science book. A proper one.

*Slams head into a spike*
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#17
Quote by Guitardude19
*Slams head into a brick wall over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again*

This is popsci its not real science! Its hugely dramatised to feed people something to get worked up over, even though they do not know what is really going on.

Your statement is full of ignorance.

Quantum theory has held for 90 years, Evolution has held for 150 years, Faradays laws have held for over 200 years, Newtonian mechanics has held for over 500 years for macro systems.

You are so full of fail. Go read a science book. A proper one.

*Slams head into a spike*


+1
#18
Quote by ordinary_story
Those pics are totally BS.

Prove it.

No, seriously
#19
Quote by sofubar
Prove it.

No, seriously


What are you like 12 years old, they are obviously computer generated pictures.
#20
Quote by farcry
What are you like 12 years old, they are obviously computer generated pictures.

By the European Space Agency...
#21
"These computer-generated images released by the European Space Agency show the incredible impact of travelling to the stars, as the planet becomes increasingly choked by this man-made junk left to orbit around it."
#24
Quote by farcry
"These computer-generated images released by the European Space Agency show the incredible impact of travelling to the stars, as the planet becomes increasingly choked by this man-made junk left to orbit around it."

Yes, that is what it says I don't need you to read it to me thanks. If they took real pictures the vast majority of satellites would not show up.

EDIT: Lakey, think mirrors
#25
I thought that was just it bouncing off, not bending around it.
#26
don't think mirrors, that's reflection. Gravity bends the pathway of light, because of the wave-particle duality, matter is like light, and light is like matter

#27
Quote by Lakey
I thought that was just it bouncing off, not bending around it.


Whats bouncing?

Photons.

The direction of incident light changes direction so if you were to draw a line, the light bends.

Quote by farcry
don't think mirrors, that's reflection



Gravitational lensing... Forgot about that...
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#28
They wouldn't cast shadows. Think of it like this, If you have a torch and tried to make shadow puppets on something that was like a 1/4 mile away it wouldn't be visible.
#29
Quote by maggot9779
They wouldn't cast shadows. Think of it like this, If you have a torch and tried to make shadow puppets on something that was like a 1/4 mile away it wouldn't be visible.

My original question is long answered mate, but to point something out that is a bad example Your fingers would be next to the light source, not the object 1/4 mile away. While the satellites are much, much closer to the object itself.
#31
Quote by sofubar
My original question is long answered mate, but to point something out that is a bad example Your fingers would be next to the light source, not the object 1/4 mile away. While the satellites are much, much closer to the object itself.


the main reason it's a bad example is that light from a torch wouldn't show up on a wall 1/4 mile away
#32
Quote by Mathamology
The fact that scale has been ignored in those pictures makes it look a lot worse than it is. The satellites are so small, the density described by those pictures is nowhere near the reality.



+1
If you go by those pics, the satilites would me the size of a large city.
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#33
Quote by farcry
the main reason it's a bad example is that light from a torch wouldn't show up on a wall 1/4 mile away


Ok, I admit it was a bad example but you get the point.
#36
Quote by Lakey
Light bends?

It bends around corners. Its called Diffraction.
Thats why you can hear ound coming from a room even if you're far away from the door. The sound waves diffract (or bend) around the door.


And Light is affected by gravity. It bends around big stars due to their gravity.
#37
The Sun isn't a point. In fact, it's really quite big. Light from opposit sides of the Sun will be able to go either side of the compartively miniscule satellites and reach the same point of the Earth surface. You don't even need wave behaviour to explain this.

If you don't understand. Think about how small a satellite would look in the sky. Occasionally when you see them, they are a tiny dot of light moving accross the sky. Now, consider the size of the sun in the sky (don't look at it you fools for a comparison, just go by the fact it appears to be roughly the same size as the moon).

Now, you see that the satellites are simply too small to block all of the Suns liht from reaching any one point on the ground.
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+1
#39
Quote by af_the_fragile
It bends around corners. Its called Diffraction.
Thats why you can hear ound coming from a room even if you're far away from the door. The sound waves diffract (or bend) around the door.


And Light is affected by gravity. It bends around big stars due to their gravity.


the main reason you hear sound is because it bounces off walls, completely different media for transduction.
#40
Sound and light waves are different, you can hear through walls but can't see through them.

Im probably wrong, i was just under the impression that light didnt bend, but was reflected.
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