#1
Alright my guitar teacher gave me a jam track to work on, and he said to use the B major scale or the C# Minor Pentatonic. I'm trying to figure out how these two fit together. The last time I looked, it seemed like the C# minor pentatonic fit into B Aeolean, but not B Ionian. Can somebody please explain the relationship with the Major scale and the Minor Pentatonic scale, and explain what scales to use in, for example, a song in the key of C?
Last edited by luuuuuuukee at Apr 21, 2008,
#2
The song is in B Major, so the notes are B C# D# E F# G# A#. The C#m Pentatonic contains C# E F# G# B, so all the notes fit.

The C#m Pentatonic does not fit in the B Aeolian scale.


In C major:

Um....try C Major!
Depending on the progression, many scales could fit, but the most common would be C Natural Major and C Major Pentatonic.
#3
I think it's a Mixolydian mode when you play a C# minor over a Bmajor.
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#5
Quote by bangoodcharlote
The song is in B Major, so the notes are B C# D# E F# G# A#. The C#m Pentatonic contains C# E F# G# B, so all the notes fit.

The C#m Pentatonic does not fit in the B Aeolian scale.


In C major:

Um....try C Major!
Depending on the progression, many scales could fit, but the most common would be C Natural Major and C Major Pentatonic.


this helped a lot. so basically, you would use the second tone in the major key if you want to play in a pentatonic scale?
#6
You have a choice of 3 pentatonics for any major scale. They are the II, III, and VI (which really should be in lower case to indicate that they're minor). This is because they are the three minor degrees of the scale.

For example, when playing over B major, you could use:

C#m - C#, E, F#, G#, B
D#m - D#, F#, G#, A#, C#,
G#m - G#, B, C#, D#, F#
#7
Quote by luuuuuuukee
this helped a lot. so basically, you would use the second tone in the major key if you want to play in a pentatonic scale?
Minor pentatonic, yes.

If you want to learn the actual theory behind this, read the theory link in my sig.
#8
Quote by toxica
For example, when playing over B major, you could use:

C#m - C#, E, F#, G#, B
D#m - D#, F#, G#, A#, C#,
G#m - G#, B, C#, D#, F#

Nope. That's all just B major as long as your tonal center is B.
#9
Yeah..the Bmaj can be the mixolian and C# would be the aerolian
so you can do it in the key of E

or just do like he saids.lol
B as ionian and C# as the dorian.

well it's like this...there's only 5 notes in the pentatonic.
Less notes = less sour notes
mmmm... play the C# dorian mode....then drop the D# and A# note
and you'll get a C# minor pentatonic.
U can still say Ur playing the C# dorian mode..you're just not playing all of the notes.lol
if you accidently hit the G note while playing the C # pentatonic just be cool and say you have the blues.lol

You can use the minor pentatonic scale over any minor modes,
becuase the 2 notes that are dropped dosn't totallty define a especific mode.

Think of it as like playing a power chord..( just the root and the 5th)..it dosn't
completely define a chord.

okay ?? okay..
You can play that same C# pentatonic and say...it's aeroian mode..like i started off
with.
well....the 6th is the relative of the major.

The major and minor pentatonic are different even thou they have the same notes.
They have different sounds.
You know...the veriouse modes in the same key all have the same notes.
It's just where you start the count.

You can use the pentatonic scale as a bride into altering the key of a song
without shocking the heck out of the listener's ears.

most people associate a pentatonic scale as playing the blues...but you don't
have too.
Last edited by Ordinary at Apr 22, 2008,
#10
^Are you drunk?

Quote by :-D
Nope. That's all just B major as long as your tonal center is B.


This.

The notes are the same scale, anywhere on the fretboard.
#11
I'll only address two of your errors.
Quote by Ordinary
The major and minor pentatonic are different even thou they have the same notes.
They have different sounds.
You know...the veriouse modes in the same key all have the same notes.
It's just where you start the count.

Major pentatonic = 1 2 3 5 6
Minor pentatonic = 1 b3 4 5 b7
Those are not the same notes.

And the modes aren't just about the order of the notes; far from it. The chording determines the mode, not the order. If I'm playing over a C major chord and play D E F G A B C, I have not played the D Dorian mode. I've played in the C major scale.
#12
Bring out your guitar and count the frets.lmao
It all right there right in front of you..how can you miss it ???

what error ?? i did say it depends where you start the count didn't I ???
Last edited by Ordinary at Apr 22, 2008,
#13
Quote by Ordinary
Bring out your guitar and count the frets.lmao
It all right there right in front of you..how can you miss it ???

What are you talking about? If you're referring to my "D Dorian" spiel and arguing against what I said, then you don't know your modes. If not, explain what you're trying to say.
#14
Why would i play a D dorain in the key Bmaj ??...If i was drunk maybe.lol

The last i check...D dorain belongs in the key of C maj

How hard can it be...are you blind or what ???

a whole step from the B note is a C# ( in the key of Bmaj)
the last i check the second mode is a dorain mode.

2,3,6...these guys are always stupid SAD for some reasons....remember ???
Last edited by Ordinary at Apr 22, 2008,
#15
Quote by Ordinary
Why would i play a D dorain in the key Bmaj ??...If i was drunk maybe.lol

The last i check...D dorain belongs in the key of C maj

I wasn't referencing a specific example. In referencing the modes, you said that "it's where you start that counts", and I was telling you that it's really not the case. If you want to take it to the key at hand, if I played C# D# E F# G# A# B over a B major chord, I'm not playing C# Dorian, but rather the B major scale starting on C#.

Quote by Ordinary
How hard can it be...are you blinde or what ???

And now you're just being a jackass. The condescending attitude can stay out of this one.
#16
What are you talking about ???

1,4,5 are the happy dudes....

even if you put the Bmaj at the 4th ...
His teacher wants him to play the C# as a MINOR pentatonic...NOT
a Major pentatonic

Obviousely you can't have it at the 4th..becuase the 5th is also happy.lol

so it leaves him with the option of 1 and 5 to put the Bmaj
Last edited by Ordinary at Apr 22, 2008,
#17
Quote by Ordinary
What are you talking about ???

1,4,5 are the happy dudes....

even if you put the Bmaj at the 4th ...
His teacher wants him to play the C# as a MINOR pentatonic...NOT
a Major pentatonic

I'm not talking about that, rather just clarifying something you said earlier. I didn't mention anything about B major as a fourth.

And earlier you also said "minor and major pentatonic have the same notes", which is also wrong.
#18
Stop confusing the kid.

He ask for a Bmaj and a C# minor pentatonic.

I don't think I'm wrong on that one...obviousely if you know your modes..
Which i think the kid dose...He plays C to shiney C for C ionian.
He plays from Dust til Dawn...for the dorain mode of the key of C..
The last i check all of the notes for the D dorain mode are the same as the notes
In the key of C...mmm all of the white keys on the piano.lol

what are you talking about ??

it's basic stuff.

You drop the 4th and 7th to obtain the MAJOR pentatonic.

Lets keep it in the key of C.

C major pentatonic.

C,D,E,G,A


A minor pentatonic (relative)

A,C,D,E,G

they look like the same notes to me.lol
Last edited by Ordinary at Apr 22, 2008,
#19
Quote by Ordinary
Stop confusing the kid.

He ask for a Bmaj and a C# minor pentatonic.

If anything, I'm preventing you from "confusing the kid" by correcting the incorrect things that you said earlier. I'm not confusing him, we're just having a discussion, but now you've simply backed away from the argument, so just realize that you were incorrect on some things and they were corrected. That's all it is.
#20
Your wrong...it's right there in front of you ...I showed it to you in Black
and white..the notes are the same.

So before you start yapping and accusing me of being drunk
at least do your home work
Last edited by Ordinary at Apr 22, 2008,
#21
Quote by Ordinary
S
I don't think I'm wrong on that one...obviousely if you know your modes..
Which i think the kid dose...He plays C to shiney C for C ionian.
He plays from Dust til Dawn...for the dorain mode of the key of C..
The last i check all of the notes for the D dorain mode are the same as the notes
In the key of C...mmm all of the white keys on the piano.lol

I didn't argue this. You failed to mention anything about the chording determining the mode; all you said was that "the order counts", which would have convinced him that he's playing (for example) D Dorian over a C major chord, which he can't do. You were wrong on this.

Do not argue this point on these boards or your anus will find that it has a twin.

Quote by Ordinary
C major pentatonic.

C,D,E,G,A


A minor pentatonic (relative)

A,C,D,E,G

they look like the same notes to me.lol

This is just a case of you not being specific enough. You said "major and minor have the same notes", meaning that C major pentatonic and C minor pentatonic would be the same. You failed to use the word "relative" in any of your posts about this, so that point needed to be clarified.

Quote by Ordinary
Your wrong...it's right there in front of you ...I showed it to you in Black
and white..the notes are the same.

So before you start yapping and accusing me of being drunk
at least do your home work

Before you start discussing modes, try learning them. They share the same notes, but cannot be used in the way that you suggested. You don't know what you're talking about.
#22
Smileyface is right, Ordinary. Pull your head out of your ass and listen to what he's saying. This debate has been done amount of times on this forum.
#24
major pentatonic and minor pentatonic do not have the same notes.

Major pentatonic = 1 2 3 5 6
Minor pentatonic = 1 b3 4 5 b7

even the interval pattern is different, if the interval pattern is different then the notes can't be the same.
Quote by coolstoryangus
Pffffffft schematics


Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
Quote by gregs1020


along with fire escape routes...

#25
Quote by aradine
major pentatonic and minor pentatonic do not have the same notes.

Major pentatonic = 1 2 3 5 6
Minor pentatonic = 1 b3 4 5 b7

even the interval pattern is different, if the interval pattern is different then the notes can't be the same.

We already covered this, and this issue has been resolved.
#26
sorry i was a little late....

oh well listen to :-D he knows what he's doing.
Quote by coolstoryangus
Pffffffft schematics


Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
Quote by gregs1020


along with fire escape routes...

#28
yeh i just wish i knew as much as you, then i could be more of a help on these boards. oh well, problem resolved.
Quote by coolstoryangus
Pffffffft schematics


Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
Quote by gregs1020


along with fire escape routes...

#29
Quote by aradine
yeh i just wish i knew as much as you, then i could be more of a help on these boards. oh well, problem resolved.

Trust me, I know very little compared to a lot of people on these boards; just keep learning and practicing and you'll be well on your way to getting involved in endless mode arguments as well.