#1
In Will Hodgkinson's book, 'Guitar Man', he writes on p.36:

"There is thing called a relative minor, and to find it you take the root note of the scale and move two notes back, which for C is A."

Okay, so i know how to find the relative minor, but what is its purpose, what is it used for?

Thanks for any input.
#2
Learn your major scale. It is a key that uses the same notes. Look at C then look at A min. A is a sixth. Minors are found at a sixth, majors are found on a b3rd.
#5
a relative minor is basically the minor of a scale and has the tonal centre of the key you are playing in but is a key of it's own.

although that's what i'm reading while i study for a music exam although this site has a few mistakes so i might be wrong.
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#6
A relative minor has the same notes as the major it's related to.

C major
C D E F G A B

A minor
A B C D E F G

Both of these scales are under a key of C major but different tonics (A - C)

Here's the scales for the key of G major

G major
G A B C D E F#

E minor
E F# G A B C D

Get it?
#7
Noob question:

Does this relate to modes at all? Like, is E minor just the Aeolian mode of G major?
#8
Quote by colin617
Noob question:

Does this relate to modes at all? Like, is E minor just the Aeolian mode of G major?


Yep. All the modes of a key and the major scale is an Ionian scale while the minor scale is an Aeolian scale. The Aeolian is the sixth degree of the Ionian.

They also have the same chords (harmonized) but their roles will differ in each mode.

A song I know is a key of C but I established the tonic as D Dorian and played a i-iv-v so my chords are Dm-Gm-Am.


Rock on!
#9
One important thing to remember is that, although C major and A minor contain the same notes, the are completely different scales and are not interchangable. You do not play the Am scale over a C major progression; you play C major. This may appear restricting at first, but remember that every scale spans the entire neck and is not restricted to a single box position.


Why this is useful: It's not that important for just playing, however, if you read sheet music, it's good to know that a key signature could denote a major scale OR its relative minor.

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Nice.

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you raise the 7th note aswell im pretty sure


No.

Quote by PanHead
A song I know is a key of C but I established the tonic as D Dorian and played a i-iv-v so my chords are Dm-Gm-Am.
Then it's a modal D Dorian song, not in the key of C major.

Edit: On second thought, that isn't even D Dorian; the Gm makes it an unusual progression in the key of D minor, using the D Aeolian scale.
#10
Quote by colin617
Noob question:

Does this relate to modes at all? Like, is E minor just the Aeolian mode of G major?


E minor is not a mode, and it is not the same as E aeolian. You likely aren't dealing with moda music at all.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
#11
Quote by Archeo Avis
E minor is not a mode, and it is not the same as E aeolian. You likely aren't dealing with moda music at all.


actually both major and minor can be considered "modes", just as modes can be called "scales". My theory books often refer to the minor mode, or the dorian scale.

The term mode and scale is often used interchangeably.

Here is an excerpt from Techniques of Twentieth Century Composition, a guide to the materials of modern music. (3rd edition)

"The Major and natural minor scales form part of the modal system as the Ionian and Aeolian modes. The other modes are like one or the other of these, with one scale degree altered, except Locrian, which has two. "

Quote by colin617
Noob question:

Does this relate to modes at all? Like, is E minor just the Aeolian mode of G major?


yes the connection you are making is correct. The relationship between a Major key and its relative minor is similar to the relationship between a Major key and any of its modes.
They share the same notes, but are different scales, with their own unique formulas and sound.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 22, 2008,
#13
Quote by bangoodcharlote
It's a fine line, but they shouldn't be. "Mode" refers to modal music.


Here is an excerpt from Techniques of Twentieth Century Composition, a guide to the materials of modern music. (3rd edition)

"The Major and natural minor scales form part of the modal system as the Ionian and Aeolian modes. The other modes are like one or the other of these, with one scale degree altered, except Locrian, which has two. "

Im pretty sure the authors of this college level theory book, and of the other books that I have knew what they were talking about.

its not a fine line. Any theory book Ive had, and any class I've taken have all used the terms consistently with how they are described in that quote.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 22, 2008,
#15
Quote by bangoodcharlote
Read that quote, my post, and Arch's post a few times; they don't dispute each other.


Your post isnt in question. You said they share the same notes ( Major & its relative minor), but are different scales. That is true. Notice I didnt quote you or dispute what you said.

However the idea that the minor scale isnt a mode...... that is incorrect.
#16
Quote by GuitarMunky
However the idea that the minor scale isnt a mode...... that is incorrect.
It could be used modally, absolutely. It does not have to be, which is why I've started paying attention to when I used the phrase "Aeolian."

And no, you didn't try to argue with me; I just saw your username and assumed that.


Edit: Arch was referring to the idea that modal music and key-based music are different, which is true.


Wow, all three of us posting and none of us wrong.
#17
Quote by bangoodcharlote
It could be used modally, absolutely. It does not have to be, which is why I've started paying attention to when I used the phrase "Aeolian."

And no, you didn't try to argue with me; I just saw your username and assumed that.


Edit: Arch was referring to the idea that modal music and key-based music are different, which is true.


Wow, all three of us posting and none of us wrong.


Quote by Archeo Avis
E minor is not a mode, and it is not the same as E aeolian.


heres another quote from Techniques of Twentieth Century Composition:

"The aeolian mode exists in conventional music theory as natural minor. Whether the mode is identified as aeolian or natural minor is of no consequence. "
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 22, 2008,
#19
If you have a major scale and want it's "relative scale" (parallell scale), then go down a b3rd (the third halfstep). So for example G major, you go down three halfsteps:
Gb, F, E.
G major has the same notes as E minor. (But still two different scales!)

To get the major "relative" (parallell) scale of a minor, go UP three halfsteps.
From B minor, you go up three halfsteps:
C, C#, D.
D major has the same notes as B minor. (But still two different scales!)
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#20
Quote by Cookiebar
"relative" (parallell)
"Relative" and "Parallel" are completely different.

Start with C major
Relative Minor of C Major: A Minor
Parallel Minor of C Major: C Minor


Very different.

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Don't make music more complicated than it need to be.


Maybe I'm a tad triggerhappy, but...


#21
Quote by GuitarMunky
heres another quote from Techniques of Twentieth Century Composition:

"The aeolian mode exists in conventional music theory as natural minor. Whether the mode is identified as aeolian or natural minor is of no consequence. "

I think he was just trying to show that Aeolian generally refers to modal music whereas "natural minor" generally refers to key-based music, that's all.
#22
Quote by :-D
I think he was just trying to show that Aeolian generally refers to modal music whereas "natural minor" generally refers to key-based music, that's all.



Quote by Archeo Avis
E minor is not a mode, and it is not the same as E aeolian.


its not what he said.
#23
Quote by bangoodcharlote
"Relative" and "Parallel" are completely different.

Start with C major
Relative Minor of C Major: A Minor
Parallel Minor of C Major: C Minor


Very different.


Hmm, in swedish we call the "relative" "parallel". o.O

Swedish:
C-major and A-minor are parallels.
:s
Not relatives.

I'm sorry if it's different in english, I just thought that parallell would be the same in english. ^^
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#24
Quote by Cookiebar
Hmm, in swedish we call the "relative" "parallel". o.O

Swedish:
C-major and A-minor are parallels.
:s
Not relatives.

I'm sorry if it's different in english, I just thought that parallell would be the same in english. ^^
This is incorrect according to the standard conventions of American theory, which is taught on this website.