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#1
Ok i need a quick answer for a small question, does a scale HAVE to start on the root note???Or can it start on any of the notes in the scale?

Thanks.

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#4
Quote by :-D
By the way, this is going to spark a huge argument. Just wait for it.
Not really
Sorry TS, I dont understand you. How can a scale start on a root note? It's built of a specific note, but it doesnt really start on the root. Wait, start what on the root note?
Is the question, do you have to start a song/melody on the root note? if so, Hell no
#5
Quote by valennic
Ok i need a quick answer for a small question, does a scale HAVE to start on the root note???Or can it start on any of the notes in the scale?

Thanks.



well the scale always "starts" on the root note, but if you mean when writing music or playing...........no, you dont have to start on the root note of a scale.
#6
Quote by demonofthenight
Not really
Sorry TS, I dont understand you. How can a scale start on a root note? It's built of a specific note, but it doesnt really start on the root. Wait, start what on the root note?
Is the question, do you have to start a song/melody on the root note? if so, Hell no


yea thats what he meant ....

NO is always the answer
#7
Quote by Martindecorum
yea thats what he meant ....

NO is always the answer
Why is no always the answer? Using the root in the right octave is the most consonant note you can play. Why not start your songs on a positive note?
#9
Quote by Martindecorum
Sorry u misinterpreted me, im trying to say that there isnt a rule saying Start With the root note

that what i was trying to say.
I dont think there are rules in music. Except that powerchord thrashing and non-sensical/unoriginal lyrics will get you laid, but thats more of a causation thing.
#11
Looking at this from another viewpoint, then you could say yes, the G major scale does start on G.

If somebody told you to play the G major scale, you would start on G. If you didn't they may say you played it wrong.


I think i almost wanted to start an argument there.
I should say that if you are using a scale over a song, then by no means should you always start and finish on the root. Look for new ideas using the intervals the scale creates.
#12
It depends how you're playing them. Playing scales like in an exam or something always start on the root note, any other and you're getting into modes.
#13
Quote by demonofthenight
I dont think there are rules in music. Except that powerchord thrashing and non-sensical/unoriginal lyrics will get you laid, but thats more of a causation thing.

Erm, there are rules in music. Many of them. You don't have to stick to them but it also depends on the style you're playing in. It's good to break the rules once in a while though, as long as it sounds good. But you don't have to start on the root of a scale, if everyone started on the root for their music it would be quite boring. And it wouldn't lead to great debates over keys of a song or piece.
#14
Put simply playing the scale starting on a different note is just playing it in a different mode, and these modes are the much simpler modes of classical music. They make a difference to the scale but yeah as said, its music go crazy with it.
#15
Quote by RedFez64
Put simply playing the scale starting on a different note is just playing it in a different mode, and these modes are the much simpler modes of classical music. They make a difference to the scale but yeah as said, its music go crazy with it.

Not necessarily. If I'm playing over a Cmaj7 chord and play D E F G A B C, I'm still playing C major and not D Dorian. There's much more to modes than simply changing the root.
#16
nope you don't have to

if a song is in G major and the first chord is G you could start on a B which is the third. i mean really you could start on any note if you wanted to, but this is just an example of how you could start on something other than the root and get a very melodic sound.
#17
Alright, to clarify, i am just learning some theory, and ive been using this sites theory guide, i was just curious, say take the C major scale, does that scale HAVE to start on C? or can it start elsewhere?

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#19
Quote by valennic
Alright, to clarify, i am just learning some theory, and ive been using this sites theory guide, i was just curious, say take the C major scale, does that scale HAVE to start on C? or can it start elsewhere?
You don't always have to start on the C note when you play. However, when you write the C major scale, write it C D E F G A B, not some other way.

This brings up the scale vs. pattern argument/pwning of theory idiots.

When you have a box pattern of the C major scale, it doesn't have to, and often won't, start on the C note. This is done to show you how where every notes in the key of C, C D E F G A B, are in that position. It does NOT mean that the pattern is necessarily a mode.


This can be elaborated on as needed.
#20
Quote by bangoodcharlote
You don't always have to start on the C note when you play. However, when you write the C major scale, write it C D E F G A B, not some other way.

This brings up the scale vs. pattern argument/pwning of theory idiots.

When you have a box pattern of the C major scale, it doesn't have to, and often won't, start on the C note. This is done to show you how where every notes in the key of C, C D E F G A B, are in that position. It does NOT mean that the pattern is necessarily a mode.


This can be elaborated on as needed.


hmmmm...i think i get what your saying. So if im building the scale, it HAS to start on the root note, but if im playing it, say like in a song, it can start on any note in the scale???Im a theory noob btw, i just started

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#21
Quote by valennic
hmmmm...i think i get what your saying. So if im building the scale, it HAS to start on the root note, but if im playing it, say like in a song, it can start on any note in the scale???Im a theory noob btw, i just started
When you say building a scale, you should mean on paper. As far as building a useable position on the fretboard, it can start on any note of the scale, so long as you consider C the root (for a C major scale).

If you understand what my previous post said, congrats. It usually takes about 4 pages of long posts by me, Arch, D, and Isaac before someone actually gets that concept.

I may post PT examples anyway, but that would be later tonight, tomorrow, or this weekend.
#22
Quote by bangoodcharlote
When you say building a scale, you should mean on paper. As far as building a useable position on the fretboard, it can start on any note of the scale, so long as you consider C the root (for a C major scale).

If you understand what my previous post said, congrats. It usually takes about 4 pages of long posts by me, Arch, D, and Isaac before someone actually gets that concept.

I may post PT examples anyway, but that would be later tonight, tomorrow, or this weekend.


hahah, yeah, ive seen some of yours and Arch's arguments, they were MASSIVE explanations, ive been reading throught the musician talk forum for quite a while now, but i just recently started. So is there anything particularly helpful in learning theory???Any help right now would be great, it really confusing. Oh yeah, and i found this site....Site what do you think of that?Would that help at all?

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#23
Quote by valennic
hahah, yeah, ive seen some of yours and Arch's arguments, they were MASSIVE explanations, ive been reading throught the musician talk forum for quite a while now, but i just recently started. So is there anything particularly helpful in learning theory???Any help right now would be great, it really confusing. Oh yeah, and i found this site....Site what do you think of that?Would that help at all?
The theory link in my sig is good.

Regarding your site, it doesn't appear to actually teach you any theory, but having a way of quickly finding scale fingerings is helpful.
#24
That link in your sig is what ive been using actually

But i thought the same thing about the site, it only really taught me the positions.
Thanks

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#25
Quote by valennic
That link in your sig is what ive been using actually
One error in that article is that the CoF is backwards. However, once you understand enough theory to actually use the CoF, you'll know how to construct it.


Quote by valennic
it only really taught me the positions.
While I whine about positions vs. scales a lot, knowing the positions and fingerings is actually very useful.
#26
OK, so do you think i should continue learning the scales/positions of scales from that site?
Because im still trying to get through the CoF and the major scale construtction, which is getting much easier now that i understand intervals, but as to my orginal question, so i do believe i have it now, the scale, when constructed on paper or outside of the fretboard, must start on the root note. On the guitar, it can start on any note, as long as said note is in the scale??

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#27
Bingo
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#28
Ok, thanks for the help guys/girls!

My things:
Bowes SLx7
Washburn WG587
Washburn X40Pro
Washburn X50
Washburn HM24
Washburn WR150
Laguna LE200s
Arietta Acoustic
First Act
Valveking 112
VHT Deliverance

#29
Quote by valennic
OK, so do you think i should continue learning the scales/positions of scales from that site?
Because im still trying to get through the CoF and the major scale construtction, which is getting much easier now that i understand intervals, but as to my orginal question, so i do believe i have it now, the scale, when constructed on paper or outside of the fretboard, must start on the root note. On the guitar, it can start on any note, as long as said note is in the scale??


well not exactly. The scale, regardless of whether its on paper, or on the fretboard, starts on the root.

When you're writing music though, you can start on any note within the scale. Theoretically, You should be able to justify that note based on its relationship to the chord that the note is played over...... but no it doesnt have to be the root. It could be the 3rd, 5th, 7th, or any number of possibilities.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Apr 23, 2008,
#30
Quote by bangoodcharlote
It usually takes about 4 pages of long posts by me, Arch, D, and Isaac before someone actually gets that concept.

Was that supposed to refer to me by any chance? If so, that's only half of my name.
#31
Quote by bangoodcharlote
It usually takes about 4 pages of long posts by me, Arch, D, and Isaac before someone actually gets that concept.


well, you guys are the only ones that know what your talking about Just ask you.
#32
Quote by :-D
Was that supposed to refer to me by any chance? If so, that's only half of my name.
You sure it's not a third?


I see your name as:
: is your first name
- is your middle name
D is your last name.

I call you by your last name.

Quote by GuitarMunky
well, you guys are the only ones that know what your talking about
Gpb, Edg, Axemanchris, and Cor know their stuff as well, and I'm missing a bunch of other intelligent posters, however, the four of us are the most active.
#33
The scale, regardless of whether its on paper, or on the fretboard, starts on the root.
As in, the root is the start of every scale? If so, yeah I agree.

But what I think he was saying is you can play the fifth scale position of A minor pentatonic, which starts with G, and it is still A minor pentatonic.

One error in that article is that the CoF is backwards.
Some of the intervals at the start are named incorrectly as well.
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
#34
Quote by bangoodcharlote
You sure it's not a third?


I see your name as:
: is your first name
- is your middle name
D is your last name.

I call you by your last name.

Right after I posted, I was hoping you wouldn't call me on my math...

You win that round.
#35
Quote by Ænimus Prime
As in, the root is the start of every scale? If so, yeah I agree.

But what I think he was saying is you can play the fifth scale position of A minor pentatonic, which starts with G, and it is still A minor pentatonic.

Some of the intervals at the start are named incorrectly as well.
We need to fix up that article. We need a theory thread, second edition.
#36
Quote by bangoodcharlote



Gpb, Edg, Axemanchris, and Cor know their stuff as well, and I'm missing a bunch of other intelligent posters, however, the four of us are the most active.


yeah you are (missing alot of other intelligent posters) and yeah you are (the most active).
#37
I'm missing a bunch of other intelligent posters

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqyIwZpr5y0
My name is Andy
Quote by MudMartin
Only looking at music as math and theory, is like only looking at the love of your life as flesh and bone.

Swinging to the rhythm of the New World Order,
Counting bodies like sheep to the rhythm of the war drums
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