#1
Okay lets say, your improvising on A major, how would you go about improvsing to another, key and what possible keys could you modulate to and how do i work that out?


Thanks alot guys, tried to make it as simple as i could say it.
#2
You would go to related keys usually. Such as the relative minor (which is F# minor), the sub dominant (which is D Major) and the dominant (which is E Major). You can also go to A minor which is the tonic minor.
I say you could go to those keys, but there isn't a rule to which keys you can go to, you can go to any that you like. To get to a different key you'll need to use chords or notes that aren't in the key you're modulating from to get there, or you could just go for it and change key straight away. It depends how you're improvising and what you're improvising over (i.e. a chord progression).
Sorry I couldn't be more helpful, but that's about the extent of my knowledge as far as key changes go, but in the end, if it sounds right, do it!
#3
theres really a million things you could do

you could change the progression into A minor (moving in from E7 works pretty well, as its shared by both the major and the harmonic minor)

you could throw in a A7 chord than use that to move into D major

or if you're in a pop song you could just move the whole thing up a halfstep to shove in another chorus :P


well, thats from a more of a songwriting standpoint....while actually improvising...moving in between the modes is probably more applicable
#4
Quote by seljer
....while actually improvising...moving in between the modes is probably more applicable

+1
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#5
The standard classical method would be to a related key. To do this, find a common chord between the two keys, it is called the pivot chord. After playing the pivot chord, move to the dominant of the new key, and then to the tonic of the new key, which is an authentic cadence, and establishes the chords as V and I, thus establishing the new key as well.
#7
You can also sneakily modulate using common tones.

For example, If you were modulating from C to Bb, you would use lots of the notes that are in both keys. IE, C, D, F, G, A. Of course, if the keys have to many common tones, the modulation will be less obvious, and some listeners might not even notice.

Also, the closer the keys are on the circle of fifths, the easier it is to modulate using this method, because they have more common tones.


EDIT: Oh! And issac, when you say use the dominant, is it assumed the chord is a b7 chord, and the 7 is dominant? Or can it be a normal chord where the 5 is dominant.
Last edited by zeppelinfreak51 at Apr 26, 2008,
#9
Quote by isaac_bandits
The standard classical method would be to a related key. To do this, find a common chord between the two keys, it is called the pivot chord. After playing the pivot chord, move to the dominant of the new key, and then to the tonic of the new key, which is an authentic cadence, and establishes the chords as V and I, thus establishing the new key as well.



...My name is Sean and I approve that quote.
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#10
Quote by isaac_bandits
The standard classical method would be to a related key. To do this, find a common chord between the two keys, it is called the pivot chord. After playing the pivot chord, move to the dominant of the new key, and then to the tonic of the new key, which is an authentic cadence, and establishes the chords as V and I, thus establishing the new key as well.


when you say a common chord, are you referring to the mediant, or submediant or what. Which degree of the scale acts as a pivot chord?
#11
Say you wanna go from A major to D major (not that bad cuz you only lose the G#. Moving up or down a sharp/flat is most common because it's not a big chang in the key signature).

You could use the chord D major (D,F#,A) as a pivot chord which is in the key of A and D major (IV in A, I in D). After that you could play A major to D major which is a V-I change. That change is an authentic cadence giving a pleasant sound of completeness. That completeness feeling/sound of the A major to D major chord sets your ears to make D the new key.


If you want to find the common chords of the key you're in and the one to modulate to:

Remember that handy formula: Maj min min Maj Maj min dim here's where it comes in handy:

A major triads:
Amajor
Bminor
Cminor
Dmajor
Emajor
Fminor
Gdiminished


with my example Dmajor:
Dmajor
Eminor
Fminor
Gmajor
Amajor
Bminor
Cdiminished

You could use any of the common chords here as a pivot chord:
I of A = V of D
ii of A = vi of D
IV of A = I of D
vi of A = iii of D
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Last edited by metal4all at Apr 26, 2008,
#12
Quote by c4acr3
when you say a common chord, are you referring to the mediant, or submediant or what. Which degree of the scale acts as a pivot chord?


Any chord that is in both keys.
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#13
Quote by Daisy_Ramirez_
Any chord that is in both keys.

see above post.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

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#14
Quote by metal4all
see above post.

Yeah man, good work.
I just posted that because I was busy at the time, else I'd've elaborated like that.

*Gives thumbs up*

EDIT: Whoa, double apostrophe!
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#15
Quote by Daisy_Ramirez_
Yeah man, good work.
I just posted that because I was busy at the time, else I'd've elaborated like that.

*Gives thumbs up*

EDIT: Whoa, double apostrophe!

Thank you

“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#16
Quote by metal4all
Thank you



Heh, nawwwwww, friendliness on my UG?!
I think so!

But yeah, no problem!

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#17
TS, did my post help you out? I tried to make it as thorough as possible. If you have any questions please ask and i'll be more than happy to help.
“Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature. And that is because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are part of nature and therefore part of the mystery that we are trying to solve.”


-Max Planck

☮∞☯♥
#18
well, thats from a more of a songwriting standpoint....while actually improvising...moving in between the modes is probably more applicable


I hope you're not arguing that you can switch between relative modes just by changing positions.
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#19
Well, for one thing, modulation relies entirely on the harmony. If you're improvising over something, you can't modulate unless the chords do(your opening post kinda confused me, you might already know this but just in case). Anyways, for the most part, if you can get V, V7, or tritone sub of the key you're modulating to in, the tonic of said key will generally be acceptable. An established way to do it would be something like I II7(V7) V(I). So doing C D7 G would get you from C major to G major. That's really just a basic way and as you keep going you'll pick up new methods.
Last edited by grampastumpy at Apr 26, 2008,