Page 1 of 3
#1
My bassist is an idiot. This is the second time in a row that we haven't been able to practice because he got grounded for doing stupid crap. Last Friday he skipped school to smoke pot with his dumbass drug dealer neighbor and got caught, because anybody with half a brain knows that the school calls your parents if you don't show up. Now I don't care what anybody says here.. our band is against marijuana and I, for one, refuse to associate with people who smoke it.

Now I love this kid to death; I've known him since preschool. He's a great musician (who wrote 2 of our recorded songs) and a great friend, but he's an idiot. I and my fellow bandmates have narrowed our choices down to 2 options:
1) Since we practice at my house, threaten to kick him out next time he does something stupid.
2) Just warn him until the next time he acts like a tard.

Help?

╠═══════╬═══════╣

Solder fume huffer σƒ τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ

╠═══════╬═══════╣

Electronic Audio Experiments
Last edited by stradivari310 at Apr 27, 2008,
#2
since his crap is interfering with the band just tell him to buckup or you'll need to look for someone else, at the end of the day its his life and if he wants to smoke pot its his call.
just make sure he knows the band comes 1st and if he cant put the music before the weed he's out.
#3
friends don't let friends do drugs
seriously, talk to him, get him to grow up
it's one thing to do drugs, but skiping important stuff like school is just throwing his life away
My Gear
Fender 72 Tele Deluxe
Behringer GM108
Austin Boot-Heel Cutaway
Dunlop Original Crybaby
Boss DS-1 Distortion
Peavey Valveking 112

Quote by mikeman
Everyone can relate to food or taking dumps but nobody sings about it.
#4
tell him you wont tolerate his drug taking. and suggest he gets help with it. tell him his priorities and he should put the band first and foremost, if he just laughs at you or just shrugs his shoulders, then find a new bassist and dont waste any more time on him
Quote by FrenchyFungus


Awww, thanks Frenchy

Quote by Cobain_Is_King
I got a packet of Love Hearts when I was six and every one said 'You Have a Tiny Penis'




Hate humans? Click here
#6
Sounds good to me. Thanks for the replies, guys.

╠═══════╬═══════╣

Solder fume huffer σƒ τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ

╠═══════╬═══════╣

Electronic Audio Experiments
#7
I agree with everyone here pretty much, and good on you for not putting up with the marijuana crap. Tell him he has 2 choices, to either stop the drugs (which he should do anyway) and make an effort with the band, or he can leave and keep screwing his life up with drugs and missing school. You should probably also ask him if he even wants to be IN the band or not.
#8
Also, I'm not sure how many other members you have, but make sure they all agree with you before you warn him... because if they disagree with you and agree with him, you could be the one getting kicked out.
#10
You refuse to associate yourself with anyone that smokes pot? What the ****? I'll just say that's extremely irrational and leave it at that because I don't want this to stray from the original topic.

As for your buddy - explain the situation to him, give him an ultimatum, and go from there.
#11
yeah whats wrong with pot? he could have wrote them two songs when he was blazed as ****..
#12
One, I'm not going to go all aggro on you for having such a hardline stance on people who smoke pot, but you do contradict yourself with your words and actions. You say you refuse to associate yourself with those that smoke pot, yet you clearly associate with this guy.

Two, if it's interfering with your band, you tell him that. Basically say, look, it's your life, but you gotta make a choice: pot or the band. Don't tell him to give up either, but make it clear that he needs to be "smarter" about both. You give him an ultimatum, you might as well just kick him out. It'll save time.

╠═══════╬═══════╣

VOLUME SWELLING OCTAVE MONGER σƒ τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ

╠═══════╬═══════╣
#13
Well, I am going to go all 'aggro' on you on the cannabis issue, because I'm virtually allergic to stupidity.

First of all, given the combination of your self-proclaimed closed mind and the fact that you're of school age, I'm going to go ahead and assume that you know dick all about pretty much anything. Don't sweat it.

Now, read the following:
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_effects.shtml (effects of cannabis, Erowid)
http://www.erowid.org/plants/cannabis/cannabis_basics.shtml (Cannabis basics, Erowid)

Once you've done that, feel free to go through all the other sections Erowid has on cannabis, including any of the links that look interesting, you can have a look at some of the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis (Wiki on cannabis, obviously)
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/units/addiction/drugs/mouse.cfm (how cannabis affects the brain)
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/index2.htm (massive resource on illegal drugs)
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/marijuan.htm (the above's section on cannabis)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6474053.stm (recent scientific review of illegal drugs)
http://www.ukcia.org/research/can-psychosis.htm (Ozzie study on psychosis and cannabis)
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmsctech/1031/1031.pdf (Science & Technology Committee report on drug classifacation)


Now, don't even think of reiterating your aforementioned 'closed mind' stance on it until you've at least read the two erowid articles. If you don't know anything about something, you have absolutely no right being closed-minded about it.


Anyway, cannabis lecture over, my advice to you is as follows:

1) Talk to him. Tell him how you feel about him missing band stuff.

2) Figure out if his cannabis use is too extreme (given you're school age, even pretty mild use isn't a great idea, but a cannabis hobby is generally going to be less harmful than alcohol or pretty much any other illegal drug) - if he's missing things purely because of cannabis, it probably is, but given the fact that he can smoke it anytime, I'd have to guess that it's as much to do with wanting to skip school as it is to do with wanting to smoke.

3) (and here's the kicker) Accept his cannabis use (given that it's not too over-the-top). Guess what? His body. His rules. If he wants to have sugar(!) in his coffee(!), drink alcohol(!), smoke cannabis(!), inhale poppers(!), drop acid(!), whatever, his choice. Gottit? HIS choice. Not that I particularly reccommend excessive drug use for school-aged people, but you catch my drift, I'm sure, by now.
Quote by Ed O'Brien
“It’s not genius. It’s just that if you want something good to come out of something, you have to put in a lot of effort. That involves a lot of hard work, and a lot of blood, sweat and tears sometimes.”

http://urbanscarecrow.bandcamp.com/
#14
Damascus wins thread, except for the very end of his 3rd advice paragraph. If he's gotten into inhalents, than TS should step in and help. That shit'll **** you up huge, especially at 15.

otherwise i +1 to his statement.
#15
Inhaling poppers (alkyl nitrites) isn't like huffing glue. TalktoFrank actually has quite a good article on them:

http://www.talktofrank.com/drugs.aspx?id=198

They're legal to buy, the headrush lasts about a minute and they're as close to harmless for a healthy person as a drug is going to get. I don't personally like or use them, I just plucked them from the air as a random example of a drug.
Quote by Ed O'Brien
“It’s not genius. It’s just that if you want something good to come out of something, you have to put in a lot of effort. That involves a lot of hard work, and a lot of blood, sweat and tears sometimes.”

http://urbanscarecrow.bandcamp.com/
#16
Kick him.


IMO, judging by your bands pictures he makes your band look interesting and fun..... no offense, man.
Last edited by The Minorthreat at Apr 27, 2008,
#17
I would kick him out.
One time I could have lived with, but two tells me he's more into his drugs than playing.
I know it's hard to kick friends out of your band, but business is business.
Quote by SteveHouse
This thread is officially about sucking Sleaze off for a sig.


Quote by tayroar
Hey Sleaze I'll give you a blowjob if you sig me. Maybe even some nudey photos?


Quote by crazy8rgood


Sleaze, that made me lulz in my pants.


Quote by 36mikeyb36
hahaha Sleaze i'd give you my mom for that one.
#18
Maybe you have to be a parent to look at it from his parents' point of view, but consider this....

His parents are doing their best to help him make better choices. You guys in your/his band would be looked at as heroes to them for putting peer pressure on him, using something he probably really enjoys AND the possibility of lost friendships, as leverage to help him do the right things.

Now, even though I'm a parent, I recall quite strongly that what your parents said was one thing.... but what your friends said and did carried a lot of weight. Use your position to help him make better choices.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#19
Sorry... just to elaborate a little more.... Your profile says you're 16. I'm assuming he's about the same. It's not like he's a hopelessly lost case of a crack or meth addict. He's using pot. Not *that* addicting (you know... when you compare it to a lot of other things), and he's not a lifer. He's +/- 16. He can stop if he wants to. If he doesn't, it's only because he's talking sh!t and trying to look like a badass.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#20
Don't kick him out yet . Talk to him about his habits. It seems to me that once he's at band practice, he definitely contributes, however the problem is him actually getting to band practice. Just tell him to quit his drug habit (and other dumb tendencies, if any) because they are interfering with the band, and if the band isn't a high priority of his, you can find a bassist who will have the band as a high priority. He should listen to you then, and if not, it's his loss.
#21
first of all warn him about the whole issue of kicking him out etc. and then if he continues to be stupid, start asking around for bassists when he is about. show him that if he doesnt stop, then you dont want him. and if he continues further, just kick him out. if he cleans up his act relatively soon, ask him back. if not find another bassist.
#22
Quote by axemanchris
Maybe you have to be a parent to look at it from his parents' point of view, but consider this....

His parents are doing their best to help him make better choices. You guys in your/his band would be looked at as heroes to them for putting peer pressure on him, using something he probably really enjoys AND the possibility of lost friendships, as leverage to help him do the right things.

Now, even though I'm a parent, I recall quite strongly that what your parents said was one thing.... but what your friends said and did carried a lot of weight. Use your position to help him make better choices.

CT

Agreed completely, but I'd just like to add that if peer pressure doesn't work, kick him out of the band.
He's your mate but you don't owe him anything. The last thing you want is to have some pill popping addict (yeah I know he ain't now, but if he's bunking off school to get high, he soon will be) in your band. It'll bring the lot of you down.
You're his mates, not his keepers, and you can only be expected to do so much for him. At some point he has to do the rest himself. But if you make an ultimatum that if he carries on taking drugs you'll kick him, and he carries on, then you have to kick him out of the band for his own good. Otherwise he'll never learn about the consequences of his actions.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Apr 28, 2008,
#23
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Agreed completely, but I'd just like to add that if peer pressure doesn't work, kick him out of the band.
He's your mate but you don't owe him anything. The last thing you want is to have some pill popping addict (yeah I know he ain't now, but if he's bunking off school to get high, he soon will be) in your band. It'll bring the lot of you down.
You're his mates, not his keepers, and you can only be expected to do so much for him. At some point he has to do the rest himself. But if you make an ultimatum that if he carries on taking drugs you'll kick him, and he carries on, then you have to kick him out of the band for his own good. Otherwise he'll never learn about the consequences of his actions.


This is ridiculous* - I really, really don't see why this problem can't be solved by a compromise.

- On the bassist's part, he stops doing stupid things that he knows are going to result in him having to miss practice** and moderates his cannabis use, if it's his cannabis use that is causing the problem***.

- On the TS'ers, he accepts that the bassist can do what he wants with his own body so long as it doesn't start interfering too much with the band. If he played a sport and injured his hand and couldn't come to band practice, would you be complaining as much? What about if he had a DIY hobby and broke a finger? Unless this guy is a very, very (very) heavy smoker, there's no reason why he can't contribute to the band and smoke cannabis. Do you allow him to drink coffee? Would you kick him out for having a pint?

At ~16, he's legally allowed that pint, with meals (depending on where you live in the world, of course) and, just to stress the point, while heavy drug use is not good at any age and much worse when younger, moderate usage of any relatively safe drug (like cannabis) is not a problem. Just tell him to cut back if he's going overboard. No need to kick him out of a band or stop being his friend just because he happens to like a drug that you don't.

*for a start, the (illegal) pills I assume you're talking about, ecstasy, aren't addictive.

**in this case, it was the skipping school that got him grounded, not smoking cannabis and like I said before, given that you can smoke cannabis whenever you want, I can't see why he would skip school specifically just to smoke cannabis. Why not just do it after school? At the weekend? In the morning on the way? Any goddamn time. The issue looks like he wants to both smoke cannabis and bunk off school.

***see above.
Quote by Ed O'Brien
“It’s not genius. It’s just that if you want something good to come out of something, you have to put in a lot of effort. That involves a lot of hard work, and a lot of blood, sweat and tears sometimes.”

http://urbanscarecrow.bandcamp.com/
#24
First and foremest, unless you are in some sort of straight edge hardcore band, and even still, you're going to have to tolerate people who smoke pot. People in other bands will smoke pot, promoters will probably smoke pot, people will probably even smoke pot somewhere in the back at shows. Being in a band, you get to meet people, which is really awesome, and if you're at some sort of after-party with people getting wasted they are gonna smoke pot. And if you're gonna go on a tour where you drive really long streches of road with nothing but farms it is pretty much unbearable unless you smoke pot (just my opinion sorry).


With all that aside, at age 16 kids are very impressionable, and tend to not think clearly and make decisions and set their priorities straight, thats what growing up is about. I personally don't think there's anything wrong with smoking pot, and I pretty much do it every day, with my fellow band members usually, but on practice days I will never smoke before or during practice, because I think it kind of messes with my cognitive abilities.

Basically it's okay to smoke pot, but once it starts messing with other parts of your life like your goals, your friendships and social connections, your schoolwork, among many other things then it's not. I personally hate about 75% of pot dealers, for the most part they do tend to be scumbags/wiggers/lowlifes and they will nearly always be willing to hang out with you. They teach a lot about not being discriminating with people and being friendly to everyone around you at school, but I think it is very important to surround yourself with a good amount of positive influences in life, and to definitely analyze the characters and personalities of the people around you and to make sure that they can gain a level of respect from you in a positive way. A lot of scummy people will be at high school parties and it is best to be wary of these people and not acknowledge them (don't start **** with them either though). THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.

I think the biggest negative impact of marijuana has nothing to do with the physical effects of it, it's just that some people get caught up and it ends up being the only thing they do, so they will spend hours sitting on a couch wasting in front of a TV or something. Now if you're going to hang out in the woods and smoke on a nice summer day with a close group of friends and maybe some hot chicks it is a different story, it's just really really bad to spend a lot of time sitting on the couch and hanging out with some dirty disorganized loser who pretty much has nothing going on in his life.

I had to learn about the negative aspects of drugs the hard way. I was 17 and very impressionable, and I think I was going through a period of depression. I unfortunately started dabbling in stuff like heroin and cocaine, which actually did start with me wasting time just smoking pot. Because of this, school, connections and networks with friends and girls, playing music, relations with my parents, and a whole bunch of other important critical stuff in life pretty much all went down the toilet for me. I ended up being malnutritioned and I also got bags under my eyes with pale skin, when I used to be kind of athletic and wholesome and good looking.I also ended up going to some bull**** alternative school from getting into fights and **** and having an overall pessimistic attitude where basically all I had to do is sit front of a computer in a strip mall for 3 hours surrounded by low-lifes (man do I hate the US educational system, among with everything else that's wrong with this country). Basically my life got reduced to doing hard drugs, being put in ridiculously risky situations, and hanging out with back-stabbers, thieves, scumbags, dope fiends, basically the scum of the earth where instead I could have been doing school work, hanging out with good friends, playing music and local shows, and of course chasing really hot girls. I wish I could've met a cute girl with a really positive mentality around this time to help me out I pretty much lost about a year of my high school youth because of all this ****. Eventually reality came raining down on me like a ton of bricks and I really did realize that the high of doing hard drugs can never compare to the happiness that doing positive things in life can bring you. I decided that I was gonna stop doing this stuff, and I did. I stopped doing the stuff all on my own without the help of any sort of rehab services, and I succeeded and I feel proud of myself for that. Shortly after I stopped I heard news that one of the kids that used to do it with me moved up to using needles and ended up dead. The worst part of all this I think is that I was pretty much herded into the alternative school program where I was surrounded by pieces of ****, and it was nearly impossible for me to make good new friends and social connections. Once again: I really really hate the educational system and I think its cause of ****ed up **** like this that stuff like columbine happens. Regardless though, I ended up getting back in touch with some old friends of mine, some people didn't even want to associate with me anymore after hearing of the type of **** I got myself into. So I ended up going back to parties and stuff and reconnected with some older friends, then the school year ended up and I got myself into college and started working out and eating good and things are much, much better now. As a guitarist and songwriter I'm the best I've ever been and the propsect of going on tour and having a small nation-wide fanbase is realer than it ever has been.

You may also want to look up tom delonge, he got kicked out of high school for a year or so but then came back and was crowned the prom king.

Hope my experiences are able to teach you a thing or two about life.
Last edited by Blue Flames at Apr 28, 2008,
#25
Good story.... seriously glad it worked out for you.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#26
Damascus and Blue Flames hit the nail right on the head. Please high schoolers, take the time to learn a few facts before you go off spouting your "friends don't let friends do drugs" BS everywhere.
Ain't nothin wrong, ain't nothin right, and still I sit and lie awake all night...
#27
As much as they have points, it is up to the individual to decide whether they want their circle of friends to include people who are into that sort of thing. Would I hang out with a person who had a beer from time to time? Sure. Would I hang out with an alcoholic? No. Would I hang out with someone who skipped school for what primarily seemed to be because he wanted to go hang out and smoke pot? No. I'd call him a loser (at least to myself) and move on. If he was a friend already, I'd try to help guide him to better choices.

CT
Could I get some more talent in the monitors, please?

I know it sounds crazy, but try to learn to inhale your voice. www.thebelcantotechnique.com

Chris is the king of relating music things to other objects in real life.
#28
Quote by Sublime Stylee
Damascus and Blue Flames hit the nail right on the head. Please high schoolers, take the time to learn a few facts before you go off spouting your "friends don't let friends do drugs" BS everywhere.


Yeah, it's probably best to ask someone who's actualy spent nearly half his life addicted to several different drugs plus an being acoholic before managing to clean himself up about this kinda thing, oh wait, that'd be me.
Maybe it wouldn't be such a good idea to ask someone like me after all, I'd only go giving you no fun advise like 'Don't do drugs, they screw you up.' and 'Try not to hang around guys who do drugs or are alcoholics, and especialy try not to be in a band with someone like that because they'll drag you down with them, sponge off you all the time and are generaly unreliable.
I only spent 20 years as an alcoholic, 12 years as an amphetamine addict, a few of those years spent addicted to a type of amphetamine called Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, (otherwise known as ecstacy, so please don't tell me that ecstacy isn't addictive Damascus because as well as being addicted to it myself, there's the little fact that ALL amphetamine based drugs are highly addictive) 7 years as an LSD addict, 5 years as a dealer and constantly smoked cannabis, the stronger the better, all day every day throughout the entire nightmare. And I've only overdosed three times and suffered extreme liver damage through taking amphetamine that had been cut with strychnine.
What the hell would I know about it?

Seriously, I've seen literaly dozens of brilliantly talented musicians crash and burn as a result of taking drugs or drinking too much or a combination of both. Quite a lot of those have dragged a perfectly good band down with them through either causing so many arguments because of their scrounging nature and unreliability that the band splits, or even getting everyone else in the band into drugs. I've experienced 6 (so far)of my mates dying due to their addictions, one, right in front of my very eyes.
So how can all this addiction, bad scenes and even death be avoided? Simple really, stay away from drugs and those associated with them.
Unfortunately as a band, it's hard to avoid alcohol while playing bars and such places, but if you act sensibly with it, it shouldn't be a problem.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Apr 29, 2008,
#29
7 years as an LSD addict


That does make you the first one I've ever heard of, then, congratulations. God knows how you got addicted to a substance where your tolerance to it skyrockets pretty much immediately, and isn't necessarily very pleasant to take...but I'm sure it's possible.

The question is not 'should I associate with someone who uses drugs' but 'should I associate with him specifically'. If he's not contributing to the band, then he's probably not worth keeping around.
If he is contributing to the band...well, why complain about what he does in his private life? That's like saying that you wouldn't let someone else in the band because when they're not with the band they consistently break speed limits and drive badly-something that's far more likely to **** him up than cannabis.

If he's talented, the talent will come through the drug use. Odds are, half the bands or more that you listen to and love had some sort of drug problem, but it didn't make the music any worse. A band is just about the music...once you start demanding that the other members fit your own morality, you turn into U2.
#30
Quote by Samzawadi
That does make you the first one I've ever heard of, then, congratulations. God knows how you got addicted to a substance where your tolerance to it skyrockets pretty much immediately, and isn't necessarily very pleasant to take...but I'm sure it's possible.

Actualy it's quite easy when different strengths are constantly being manufactured with different mixtures that have different effects added to it.
That's why acid tabs have different little pictures on them, so you know what sort of an effect it'll have on you.
It's precisely the fact that your tolerance to it builds up so much that makes stuff like LSD so dangerous, because you find yourself constantly trying to find 'that hit' and being dissapointed, so you take more of it, which radicaly alters your state of mind and before you know it, it's 7 years later when you realise that you've just wasted all that time and money looking for a hit that you'll probably never achieve again.

Quote by Samzawadi

The question is not 'should I associate with someone who uses drugs' but 'should I associate with him specifically'. If he's not contributing to the band, then he's probably not worth keeping around.
If he is contributing to the band...well, why complain about what he does in his private life? That's like saying that you wouldn't let someone else in the band because when they're not with the band they consistently break speed limits and drive badly-something that's far more likely to **** him up than cannabis.

While I do agree with you about the question of band contribution, I'm assuming that that's why the thread starter asked in the first place, because this guy's habits are affecting the band.
Quote by Samzawadi

If he's talented, the talent will come through the drug use. Odds are, half the bands or more that you listen to and love had some sort of drug problem, but it didn't make the music any worse. A band is just about the music...once you start demanding that the other members fit your own morality, you turn into U2.

True, in all my years of addiction, I hardly ever let any of the bands I was in down, musicaly or reliability wise, but my altered mind, the psychosis and paranoia that came along with the huge amount of drugs and booze I was taking, caused enough of it's own problems within those bands.

Look, I'm all for a little experimentation here and there with the odd chemical toy, but when someone starts taking something regularly that radicaly alters their state of mind, even if it's just cannabis, that should start alarm bells ringing. It's not neccesarily what he's doing to himself, that's his own decision, but it's about the person you first started out in a band with, the guy who you joined up with or accepted into your own band because as well as being a decent musician, he's also a pretty good guy to get along with, suddenly becoming a completely different person who suddenly has so much extra baggage, it drags the band down.
Axemanchris said it best when he said 'Would I hang out with a person who had a beer from time to time? Sure. Would I hang out with an alcoholic? No.'
It's not that this guy smokes the odd joint, it's the fact that it's starting to take a priority in his life, to the point where he's skipping school to hang around and get high with a local dealer that's worrying.
It matters that he knows he's gonna get caught out for doing it but for some reason, smoking dope with a dealer is more important to him, it's a sign that his rationality at least is already affected.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Apr 29, 2008,
#31
although i don't condone drug use myself, i tolerate it and anyone who uses drugs. i mean your obviously good friends with this kid right? so why break up a friendship with someone because of cannabis use? just tell him if he wants to use weed thats fine but lay down some rules.

1. band before drugs
2. do not come to band practice high
3. use drugs after a show not before

etc, that way he can enjoy himself and keep a steady band going.
Quote by coolstoryangus
Pffffffft schematics


Although i guess the OP will have to get used to reading them if he's going to buy a bugera..
Quote by gregs1020


along with fire escape routes...

#32
Thanks for all the replies guys.

For those of you who thought I was contradicting myself, it's more the matter that I've known this guy since before kindergarden and he's only recently gotten into drugs, and watching his downward progression is just killing me.

Now I'm not going to argue with the articles about the effects of pot, but one of my very good friends is a neuroscience PhD at MIT who showed me brain slices of a pot smoker, and I didn't like what I saw. Damascus, I read the first two articles and a couple of the others (including the BBC article) and I will say they are interesting. But wouldn't the fact that "increased boredom" caused by regular smoking mean that the user wants more? That's an inherent problem in itself. Also, the long term effects are extremely detrimental to the respiratory system, but that is inevitable whenever any drug is smoked.

Anyway, the rest of the band stands by me and we're going to lay down the ultimatum that if his drug use continues to interfere in any way with the band we're going to kick him out. This is not only missing practice, it also includes purchasing new equipment because his rig is total **** and he said he would upgrade it in March but instead spent the money on pot.

╠═══════╬═══════╣

Solder fume huffer σƒ τλε τρπ βπστλεπλσσδ

╠═══════╬═══════╣

Electronic Audio Experiments
Last edited by stradivari310 at Apr 29, 2008,
#33
That's why acid tabs have different little pictures on them, so you know what sort of an effect it'll have on you.


Blotter design is not an indicator of the drugs effects, both because any manufacturer can use any blotter paper they want, and because the drugs effects are highly dependent on context.

It's precisely the fact that your tolerance to it builds up so much that makes stuff like LSD so dangerous, because you find yourself constantly trying to find 'that hit' and being dissapointed, so you take more of it, which radicaly alters your state of mind and before you know it


Tolerance to LSD dissipates quickly, and rarely builds up at all due to the length of the drugs effects and the fact that it is rare to actually use the drug more than once in a short period of time. This wouldn't be any issue anyway, since the average recreational dose is around 200ug, several thousand times lower than a dose that could be considered dangerous.

Similarly, LSD is nonaddictive. You did not spend a decade addicted to it.

Now I'm not going to argue with the articles about the effects of pot, but one of my very good friends is a neuroscience PhD at MIT who showed me brain slices of a pot smoker, and I didn't like what I saw.


Were these scans of someone who was presently under the influence of the drug. It's true that heavy users tend to experience cognitive and memory impairment, but these effects generally disappear after a period of abstinence.
Someones knowledge of guitar companies spelling determines what amps you can own. Really smart people can own things like Framus because they sound like they might be spelled with a "y" but they aren't.
Last edited by Archeo Avis at Apr 29, 2008,
#34
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Yeah, it's probably best to ask someone who's actualy spent nearly half his life addicted to several different drugs plus an being acoholic before managing to clean himself up about this kinda thing, oh wait, that'd be me.


Will Self disagrees with you. Having been addicted to heroin for 20 years, during which he was a heavy user of pretty much every other recreational drug, he views himself as much less authoritive on the subject than someone who can dip in and out of recreational drug use as they please. Oh wait, that'd be me .

Maybe it wouldn't be such a good idea to ask someone like me after all, I'd only go giving you no fun advise like 'Don't do drugs, they screw you up.' and 'Try not to hang around guys who do drugs or are alcoholics, and especialy try not to be in a band with someone like that because they'll drag you down with them, sponge off you all the time and are generaly unreliable.


You're right, it is not a good idea to ask you. Being primarily a lurker, I see you give very good advice out here pretty much all the time, but on this question you're extremely far off the mark.

Your implicit treatment of alcoholics as the same as people who 'use drugs' is incredibly insulting to those who are able to use illegal drugs recreational without getting hooked on them or letting them interfere with their lives - getting, in fact, something positive out of them.

Why is it alright to recreationally drink, but as soon as you use an illegal drug recreationally you're as bad as an alcoholic?


Methylenedioxymethamphetamine, (otherwise known as ecstacy, so please don't tell me that ecstacy isn't addictive Damascus because as well as being addicted to it myself, there's the little fact that ALL amphetamine based drugs are highly addictive)


It has the potential to be psychologically addicting, as well as having a short period of tolerance. It is not addicting in the same manner that heroin and nicotine are, which was the manner and level of addiction I meant - apologies if I wasn't exactly clear about that.


7 years as an LSD addict,


As has been said before, LSD is in no way physically addictive. Don't start preaching to people just because you can't control yourself.

Seriously, I've seen literaly dozens of brilliantly talented musicians crash and burn as a result of taking drugs or drinking too much or a combination of both. Quite a lot of those have dragged a perfectly good band down with them through either causing so many arguments because of their scrounging nature and unreliability that the band splits, or even getting everyone else in the band into drugs.


And I, whilst obviously not having lived quite so long as you ( ) have seen at least a few dozen people who use drugs and not only do they not mess their lives up, they actually get something positive out of their drug use - and by this I mean something positive beyond the simple fun of being on drugs.


Like I (and others) have been saying, it's your body, you choose what you want to do with it. If you don't personally want to do drugs, then don't, but don't tell other people not to do drugs when it's clear that most people can recreationally use substances like cannabis, MDMA and LSD without turning their lives into the train-wreck you described.
Quote by Ed O'Brien
“It’s not genius. It’s just that if you want something good to come out of something, you have to put in a lot of effort. That involves a lot of hard work, and a lot of blood, sweat and tears sometimes.”

http://urbanscarecrow.bandcamp.com/
#35
Quote by SlackerBabbath
Actualy it's quite easy when different strengths are constantly being manufactured with different mixtures that have different effects added to it.
That's why acid tabs have different little pictures on them, so you know what sort of an effect it'll have on you.
It's precisely the fact that your tolerance to it builds up so much that makes stuff like LSD so dangerous, because you find yourself constantly trying to find 'that hit' and being dissapointed, so you take more of it, which radicaly alters your state of mind and before you know it, it's 7 years later when you realise that you've just wasted all that time and money looking for a hit that you'll probably never achieve again.


Again, no idea where the pictures thing came from - if you can find some evidence to back this up it'll stop the credibility from draining out the bottom of your argument. "I used it for years and know" is not evidence, by the way, because I know people who've used it for years who know that the pretty pictures are just...pretty pictures.

Also, to get the same 'hit' of acid again, all you need to do is take the same amount a few days later - the tolerance you build up disappitates over a day or two. I'm not calling your entire life story into question here, but some parts of it do smell a bit off.


Look, I'm all for a little experimentation here and there with the odd chemical toy, but when someone starts taking something regularly that radicaly alters their state of mind, even if it's just cannabis, that should start alarm bells ringing. It's not neccesarily what he's doing to himself, that's his own decision, but it's about the person you first started out in a band with, the guy who you joined up with or accepted into your own band because as well as being a decent musician, he's also a pretty good guy to get along with, suddenly becoming a completely different person who suddenly has so much extra baggage, it drags the band down.


What about the guy who isn't addicted to any of the chemicals he injests and suddenly (or, as it often happens, less suddenly) becomes a less inhibited person socially and creatively? I realise that I'm responding to pretty much all of your points with a rosey view of drug use, but the fact is that you're constantly painting the negative extreme, and I feel therefore I must point out the positive extreme - or, hell, even the normal extreme, because most people who use drugs like cannabis, LSD, MDMA, even alcohol - do not have a problem with them.


Lastly, sorry for the double post, but UG seems to crash every time I try to edit a post and I'd say that to be more clear, in the first point of my post above, I'm not trying to imply that anything I say is more valid than what you say because I'm not a former addict, I'm saying that whatever you say isn't more valid just because you are a former addict. Of course, you can draw on those experiences to make more valid points, but as Archeo, Samzawadi and I have pointed out, what you're saying in this thread, by and large, has very little validity.
Quote by Ed O'Brien
“It’s not genius. It’s just that if you want something good to come out of something, you have to put in a lot of effort. That involves a lot of hard work, and a lot of blood, sweat and tears sometimes.”

http://urbanscarecrow.bandcamp.com/
#36
Quote by stradivari310
Anyway, the rest of the band stands by me and we're going to lay down the ultimatum that if his drug use continues to interfere in any way with the band we're going to kick him out. This is not only missing practice, it also includes purchasing new equipment because his rig is total **** and he said he would upgrade it in March but instead spent the money on pot.


[Sorry for the triple-post, like I said, UG won't let me edit right now]

This seems like a generally senesible stance to take. I think the best line of advice in the thread has been, "The question is not 'should I associate with someone who uses drugs' but 'should I associate with him specifically'." and you appear to be following it.

I would, however, make one last point about treating cannabis as the sole cause of all the problems here.

- Firstly, as I've maintained all along, he can smoke any time he wants, so I don't see how cannabis can possibly be the sole reason he skipped school. I'm not saying it wasn't a motivation, but I'd suggest that the allure of 'skipping school' itself and the influence of said dealer may well have been large factors and these have nothing intrinsic to do with his cannabis use (not all drug dealers are bad influences on you. I've know some quite lovely pub landlords )

- Secondly, how much cannabis was he buying if he spent all the money he had saved up for a quality rig? I'm sure the guy has other things he spends his money on apart from music gear - again, I'm not trying to say that no problems are coming from his cannabis use, only suggesting that you think before blaming it as the root of all evil.

- Lastly, you might want to think about this 'downward progression'. Is cannabis the cause, or a symptom? Again, you're the man on the ground, but in the same way that cannabis can actually be a gateway drug, but for entirely the opposite reason often cited (it often leads to other drugs because people try cannabis and think, 'Whoa, this is awesome! And I'm not dead. Hey...they LIED to me! What else did they lie about...?'), the causation of this situation may not be as straightforward as it looks.


But yes, overall, it looks like you're going about things in pretty much the right way - accept that he can use cannabis if he wants, but make it clear that you won't tolerate any behaviour of his (cannabis-related or not) that adversely affects the band.
Quote by Ed O'Brien
“It’s not genius. It’s just that if you want something good to come out of something, you have to put in a lot of effort. That involves a lot of hard work, and a lot of blood, sweat and tears sometimes.”

http://urbanscarecrow.bandcamp.com/
#38
It's hard to be addicted to LSD, it's a very, very strong and disorienting drug and it's not something that takes any of your pain away. What LSD can do though is that it can really mess someone's head up, especially if they've got some bad problems or are psychologically unstable. I know a kid who went through such an intense experience that he started not eating right and acting weird and whatnot and he got kicked out of the dorms and ended up in a psychiatric ward (weird story). When I tried it, it was really intense, but I pretty much got back to reality when it was over with, the stuff is really really strong and intense though, it pretty much takes over your whole nervous system and while you're on it you can't control your thoughts (which can be a really scary thing to experience). Mushrooms tend to be milder, but mushrooms and acid are very, very similar. But seriously I don't know how slacker has had so many good experiences with a ridiculously intense hallucinogenic substance that he kept on using it, but then again they do say that acid was better back in the day. I've also found it to be a very rare substance among anyone I associate myself with.

As for ecstasy I do think it can be addictive and in the same way people get addicted to adderall. I think I read on erowid a long time ago that if you use it frequently it loses it's "touchy, feely" sort of effects and it's just more like taking a regular amphetamine.
#39
Archeo Avis and Damascus.
Rather than go through your posts bit by bit and getting into an argument that will go on for pages about addiction both physical and psychological and the merits of drug use as opposed to drug abuse, and the whole question of whether alcohol is just a drug that happens to be legal, I'll just reiterate what I've already said, but try to explain myself better.
I had a really hard time with drugs and alcohol for a very long time, so I'm just speaking from personal experience, not from some theoretical text book or accounts of other drug users.
I had a strong craving for LSD that lasted a long time, in my book that's called addiction, whether it's a physical or a psychological addiction, it makes little difference, it still screwed me up. You can choose to believe me or not, I don't particularly care what you choose to believe.
It may not be highly likely that anyone else would have the same hard time that I had if they got involved with drugs and alcohol, but it is definately possible. After all, drugs affect different people differently and people tend to have different levels of addictiveness. SSome people can drink or smoke all their life every day, then one day give it up without the slightest craving, others can get addicted to chocolate bars or nasal sprays as if they were heroin.
The problem is, when you find out if you're the kind of person who will get addicted to stuff easily or not, it's too late because you're already addicted.
All I'm saying is that it's dangerous to take drugs and drink alcohol because addiction is a real, well known, fact, that could happen to anyone.
I'm not some hard liner saying 'Don't do drugs and don't drink alcohol.' because that would be hypocritical of me, hell, I still drink alcohol occasionaly and I still smoke the odd joint. I'm just suggesting that common sense tells us that when the evidence of the dangers of taking drugs and drinking alcohol is all around us, then the obviously sensible thing to do would be to avoid them in the first place.
This ain't rocket science.
I went through hell, I'm simply advising others based on what I went through because I really don't want anyone else to go through what I went through.
If you guys have a problem with that, fine. We'll agree to disagree.
Getting back to the main point, the evidence contained in stradivari310's posts about his bass player suggests that his bass player has a real problem with drugs because he's apparently gone through some sort of personality change. This is one of the main symptoms of addiction.
It doesn't matter how anyone else is affected by drugs, it doesn't matter if most people can take drugs in a sociable manner responsibly, we're not talking about them, we're talking about stradivari310's bass player who's drug taking is apparently causing problems within the band. If there is a problem in a band, for any reason, it obviously needs dealing with.
Again, this ain't rocket science.
Last edited by SlackerBabbath at Apr 30, 2008,
#40
anything can be addictive, be it drugs, food, excersize, porn, gamblin or mario kart

all that matters is it being something that you love, it becomes an addiction when it starts to become a compulsion to do it despite harmful consequences to your health, mental state or social life
Page 1 of 3